The Quiver Equation (navel gazing alert?)

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

My realization years ago was that there's absoltuley no point in owning a ski that's used for less than 10 days a year. It's a waste of money, space, and mental energy.

So the answer I came to was 3 skis is the proper quiver size:

Ski #1: 85 - 95mm waist for lightweight touring ski.
Ski #2: 99 - 110mm waist daily driver/travel ski with Shifts
Ski #3: 115+ waist pow ski. I run tech bindings here because they make sense at my local hill on deep days, but a Tecton makes sense too.

If I had to add more skis to that quiver I have to to justify it by getting more than 10 days a year on that additional ski and the skis I keep. Which, for 3 years now has kept me at this simple 3 ski quiver.

[tang]

My realization years ago was that there's absoltuley no point in owning a ski that's used for less than 10 days a year. It's a waste of money, space, and mental energy.

I kinda agree and end up skiing between 2 skis at the resort. But I do think having two bc/touring skis is pretty key - winter and spring, and that also then provides a back up if say a binding goes and is out for a week or two mid-season. A Shift ski could play this role too, although I sorta dread actually touring on it

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I really like my Rustler 11's. If I'm going to ride lifts without my kid it is almost certainly soft enough to bring them. If these were my only resort skis I'd be fine, but...

I added some Enforcer Free 104's for skiing with my kid. Hoping they are fun going slower, but still enough ski that I can enjoy them if I get away for a few laps on my own.

I'm about to pick up some 2014 Billy Goats for days when soft snow abounds. Probably won't use these much as I appreciate the versatility of the Rustlers, but when you hit a midweek deep day with the right ski it's special.

Even when there is no pandemic I don't do more than a few hard snow days riding lifts: Once or twice early season to dial in my technique and get a good burn in my legs, and another day or two when I feel like going fast or I make plans to ski with a friend. That may change as my kids get older, in which case I'd add something with metal and an 85ish waist. I do enjoy groomer zooming and a few bump laps, but for now I'd rather go on a solo tour with my dog even if the snow sucks. Time alone is priceless these days.

[Buster Highmen]

Has anyone seen Deb Armstrongs youtube rants against fat skis? Scientifically proving fat skis are bad for you?



(note the Rissi ROC 550s, the VR17s and the Kneissl Red Star RSes to the left above at the start.)

I'm relieved that I'm not in the 11 to 13 year old class since I love my fat skis most days.

[kid-kapow]

I have not read the paper/thesis (nor will I), but this seems more than a bit... Leaving the bias of gate racing=the correct form of skiing to one side, her finding seem to be that a ski that is narrow,that has minimal taper and lots of sidecut is more prone to initiating a turn and staying in it compared to a wider ski designed for a different application, and that the technique required to ski the latter can be / is different and potentially detrimental to developing perfect racing technique as it causes muscle formation/memory differences? Yikes...

So they set out to prove that something that is different is indeed different, and then uses that finding to state that wide skis - wide being wider than 65mm race skis - are wrong for most skiers? Again, yikes.

No wonder I suck at skiing with my narrowest ski being 90mm underfoot... I am probably luck that I can still walk and have not died.

Though to be fair, a racing coach would probably cringe if he/she had to study my technique - so there is that

As for the thread - my take is to have three skis in a quiver, a narrower ski, a daily driver and a pow ski. I have yet to settle on a trifecta that works well across multiple resorts/terrains, so right now the quiver is a bit larger than it should be. I usually ski 1-3 pairs any given day, except when I go touring - then it is one pair a day. I try to prevent overlap for a given resort so as to prevent "hm, i wonder if I would have had more fun on X or Y or Z ski right now" type feelings.

[jackattack]

I like to have more than one pair of skis in the truck. In the event that conditions are not what I anticipated, or I lose a ski on a pow day, I can swap skis and keep skiing instead of driving home.

12” day? Don't overthink it, take the Goats.

[NW_SKIER]

This thread needs this obligatory post....










Praxis Rx



Don't own them, and never ridden them. Just keeping Bobby alive.

[Shorty_J]

I have a lot of skis but surprisingly not a lot of overlap... sort of.

I don't ski super fast anymore and often ski firm conditions, and the Salomon Rocker2 100 is my DD.

Up until this year I've had the rocker2 122 in a 180 (actually 115mm under foot), or bluehouse maestro 189 for deep days. I'm not sure I'm fit enough for the maestro these days so pretty much skid the 115s on powder days.

The 115s are actually quite good for me in firm but short running length so not too demanding.

Last year I grabbed some pontoons for those epic days but haven't used them yet. And this year I added the rocker2 122 in a 184... which is actually 122 under foot and has a longer turning radius.

So this year my thought process should be pretty easy... 100mm/178cm, 115mm/180cm, 122mm/184cm, 132mm/179cm... more snow, bigger skis... more snow = wider ski.

If I'm travelling I'll take those 4. I never take only 1 pair... at least 2 and usually 3... it's easy to be wrong.

Honestly I think the maestro is for 1 particular resort that often has smooth windbuff... castle mountain alberta.

185 powder boards only come out for cat skiing.

Edit: as per the post above, I mounted up some beat Praxis RX, but I honestly expect to not love them until spring, but we'll see. So my overlap might be growing at this size but not sure yet.
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[DarthMarkus]

So the Quiver Thread has got me thinking... for those of us with maybe 40 - 60 ski days (assuming most of TGR is Weekend Warrior status) and the fact that many of us have 10 pairs or so of skis, with lots of overlap... how do you chose?

Obviously we all have that outlier that makes sense for the bracket - ie a groomer ski for ice or a Lotus 138 for that 4' day.

So cutting out the outliers (spring touring sticks, megapow, GS skis, etc... that still probably leaves a large amount of overlapping skis.

But let's thought experiment here... let's say a normal "prime ski day" - 12" new snow over a soft base, maybe a touch deeper at your home mountain. Overcast but decent visibility. Normal resort pattern, ie first couple hours are mostly untracked, then switch over to soft tracked up snow and stashes if you know where to look.

What would you grab?

Additional questions:

1. Are you doing hot swaps as the conditions change? If so, how many swaps would you do in a day?
2. What happens when you end up with a 108 underfoot ski that punches above its width?
3. What about a ~120 underfoot ski that is surprisingly good on firm snow?
4. I notice a lot of us have multiples in the 115 - 120mm powder ski category. Is it more than waist width? Do you have multiple shapes/design intents mixed with waist width?
5. Are we looking at moisture content, temperature, wind speed? What makes you grab one of your overlaps over the other?
6. Does anyone have multiple lengths of the same ski?

For fun, list your quiver and let us know how you have segmented things, and your rationalization.

This sparks some interesting thought on the matter. I've thought about it a bit, but I think having a conversation about it under these metrics makes for a little more fleshed out thought on the matter.

Full quiver this year will probably look like:

• PROTO (bigger days),
• R11 (bigger days and touring),
• Stockli Stormrider TT (go-fast, crud buster),
• M-Free 108 (Daily driver, well-rounded),
• Menace 98 (Daily driver with Moguls and park mixed in - Winter park & MJ).
• ???. Sill ironing out some details, maybe a more touring specific ski here if I don't endure the R11 as my touring ski.

For me in the past it was either the Peacemaker or the Gunsmoke for 90% of what I wanted to do. Both skis slayed through chop, pow, and sun-baked 'taters. After I a got rid of my Peacemakers, the Gunsmoke essentially filled that role because, well, it still could accomplish what I wanted even at 114mm. It just took a bit more effort. My one complaint about approaching the mountain this way is that I did feel a little limited when I'd get into trees or moguls when things get warm - I like narrower skis here.

I gravitate towards longer skis because I feel like I can achieve a lot of floatation simply by going to a longer length. I'll add a caveat to that by saying that going longer, with a very long turn radius can get you into some sticky stations. But IMO modern ski shapes have allowed some wiggle room to find a long ski with a short turn radius and still have a great time as conditions change. As much as a disagree with the crazy lady above, I think there's some relativity in width depending on the skier. For myself I find most skis >120 as usually too much for my taste. I have narrow feet, I do still like moguls and I don't like 5-dimensional shapes. I think all those factors play a part in not liking super-wide skis.

All that being said, I usually take two pairs of skis: First pair is >110mm underfoot, the second one is <110 for either a bad prediction on snow, or if things get significantly tracked out. I also have a crud-blaster or more traditionally shaped ski for if things get particularly nasty.

So given the hypothetical 12" day, I'd grab something like the PROTO, then grab the M-free 108 or Peacemaker (RIP). There's a good chance I'd stay on the PROTO for most of the day then either call it quits around 2pm, or I'd change out around noon - all dependent on how conditions change.
However... I'm kind of expecting the M-Free 108 to accomplish everything leading up to a 12" day. I'd only go bigger for days with more than a foot, but even then having the 192 still gives me a lot of floatation. Everything about it screams as being capable of achieving what I did with the Peacemaker and Gunsmoke - shape, construction, length, and rocker profile.

The other factors at play are things like location, coverage, or who I'm skiing with. A situation might include: hiking chutes in Big Sky or Bridger - If there's a LOT of snow I'd take something like the R11 or PROTO, if not I'll take something like the Stockli Stormrider TT because it shuts down speed fast and is very stable at speed. Pintail in the back makes for a surprisingly maneuverable ski. But I feel like those situations rarely warrant more than one ski, but I usually still have one backup in the trunk.

R11 will fit into situations where I'll be doing more sidecountry, so that'll replace the PROTO when I'm hiking, then I'll have the M-free 108 once conditions get tracked out enough and I'll just use lifts. Unfortunately I think the M-Free 108 may negate the need for the PROTO as it accomplishes a lot of what the PROTO does, and most of what I want that's left will be filled by the R11. There's a good chance that the R11 and MF108 will accomplish 90% of what I want.

Time will tell on the MF108

[SupreChicken]

So the Quiver Thread has got me thinking... for those of us with maybe 40 - 60 ski days (assuming most of TGR is Weekend Warrior status) and the fact that many of us have 10 pairs or so of skis, with lots of overlap... how do you chose?

Obviously we all have that outlier that makes sense for the bracket - ie a groomer ski for ice or a Lotus 138 for that 4' day.

So cutting out the outliers (spring touring sticks, megapow, GS skis, etc... that still probably leaves a large amount of overlapping skis.

But let's thought experiment here... let's say a normal "prime ski day" - 12" new snow over a soft base, maybe a touch deeper at your home mountain. Overcast but decent visibility. Normal resort pattern, ie first couple hours are mostly untracked, then switch over to soft tracked up snow and stashes if you know where to look.

What would you grab?

Additional questions:

1. Are you doing hot swaps as the conditions change? If so, how many swaps would you do in a day?
2. What happens when you end up with a 108 underfoot ski that punches above its width?
3. What about a ~120 underfoot ski that is surprisingly good on firm snow?
4. I notice a lot of us have multiples in the 115 - 120mm powder ski category. Is it more than waist width? Do you have multiple shapes/design intents mixed with waist width?
5. Are we looking at moisture content, temperature, wind speed? What makes you grab one of your overlaps over the other?
6. Does anyone have multiple lengths of the same ski?

For fun, list your quiver and let us know how you have segmented things, and your rationalization.

Prime day? 189 cease and desist

Hot swaps if I’m trying to compare skis. Stupidly, I sometimes find that as fun as skiing. Or if I want to spend the afternoon on old man park skills. 1-2 swaps max.

108 with good width punching? Meh. Hasn’t happened yet, but even if it did, I love the 115-120 waist. Just feels right.

120 that’s decent on firm snow exists. New bent chetler. Make no mistake, it’s versatile AF, but it’s not a park or firm snow ski.

Multiple designs in that range? Yes. 2. RES vs Jibby rides.

Overlaps? Depends only on how old the snow is. If I’m skiing leftovers/chop, RES is king. Super fresh? It’s mood and hiking intent. Always like being able to skin if I might leave the boundary of the resort. So if I’m beacon on, I’m probably on a shift setup.

I used to have multiple lengths of the bent chetler. Shorter one stopped getting used.

Current quiver. Smallest waist to largest

179 line vision 98/alpinist - volcanos
182 PBJ/sth - park/bumps
190 Deathwish/sth - straight beater/street ski
190 deathwish tour/tecton - daily tour
191 billy goat/sth - inbounds soft
192 bent chetler/shifts - pow tour/slackcountry
191 Sgn urrakkar/pivot - inbounds deep (jib)
189 cease and desist/sth - inbounds deep (RES)

[detrusor]

I rarely bring more than 1 pair to the hill. But me in the Ass last year when I was over my head straight lining a tiny chute in the bookends on the 9D’s.

I think I’ll be thinning the herd this year.

If 2 I bring an FIS SL ski or a beer league GS and something bigger. Hard not to grab the Ducroz LP 105’s.

Supergoats when it’s big. What else do I need? I have 5-6 other pair....


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[pyromaniacman129]

I end up buying skis I want to try and then usually only ski two pairs I own in a season.
Lately that's been
196 down cd114 on anything fresh
193? K2 mindbender 99ti on other days.

Ski the downs most days since they do a lot of things well.
I think the best setup is having less skis and focusing on getting to know them better.

A fresh snow day ski and an anything but ski. The more skis I have the harder to decide what to pick or think oh I should have been on another pair instead of focusing on just skiing.
I'll bring both pairs to the hill in case I think
Rip a binding out or if I horribly misjudge conditions.
Others just hang out in my gear whore pile of sticks which reminds me I need to sell some skis.

[TeleBeaver]

12" of fresh: 190 Deathwish.

The (resort) Quiver:

184 Wren 96 -when it hasn't snowed
190 Deathwish -when it snows
189 Cease and Desist -when it snows a lot
also
188 PB&J -rocks/jibby spring shenanigans/backup skis. these are pretty beat but serve a purpose protecting the nicer skis from skiing on grass in the spring
all mounted with outlaws

I tried to simplify my resort quiver two years ago by just having a ski for when it snowed, and a ski for when it hasn't. It was a good theory that worked as I planned, but then I decided to move from Crested Butte (a decidedly less snowy resort) to LCC, and so I added 189 Cease and Desists for those big Utah dumps. They will come out on pretty much any double digit day, unless it is a total dust on crust or early season situation.

I could absolutely add a true carver to this but I don't really go skiing to ride groomers. I could also add a wren 110 for when I want to really get down, but tbh most of the time I don't need to rage that hard, and when I do the Deathwish can basically hold its own. Sometimes you want to just plow over everything though, I'm hoping the Cease and Desist can satisfactorily mob LCC chop, it would take that big mountain mauler quiver slot right out of my head.

rest of the quiver for shit n gigs:

160cm Voile WSP w/moonlight pure tele (skimo)
171cm Voile Objective w/Lynx (spring touring)
178cm Voile Supercharger w/Meidjo (most touring, also have skins for the deathwishes for deep BC days/hucking)
200cm Karhu XCD GT, pins (low leather kick and glide rig)
200cm Fischer GTS riva cable (leather boot spring shenanigans)

[kootenayskier]

Cue the dentist jokes, but my go-to on soft snow days are my 190cm Pure 2 DPS Wailer 112s. On my home mountain (Red) there are fresh lines to be had all day for those willing and able to rally down steep, tight, obstacle strewn, lines through the trees, and I haven’t found anything better. This year I’ve mounted them with Shifts, to provide more options (especially touring off the hill) for dealing with the inevitable COVID related nonsense.
I was using a pair of 183 Volkl Kuros for top to bottom charging on the deepest days and when it’s dumping all day, which I loved in the open and for hovering over the chop, but found them limiting in the tight stuff, so this year I’ve gone with 183cm Volkl Shiros.
For non-powder days, I’m on 184cm fully rockered (2017) Volkl Mantras, which I only got on at the end of last season, but am absolutely loving, they’re so stable and damp yet undemanding in everything from inconsistent windfuck to railing firm groomers.
185cm G3 Synapse 109s for powder touring, and 184cm Hybrid DPS Wailer 112RPs as rock skis rounds out the quiver.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Has anyone seen Deb Armstrongs youtube rants against fat skis? Scientifically proving fat skis are bad for you?



(note the Rissi ROC 550s, the VR17s and the Kneissl Red Star RSes to the left above at the start.)

I'm relieved that I'm not in the 11 to 13 year old class since I love my fat skis most days.

Those ladies seem like they might be somewhere on the spectrum, both have the head bobbing and rocking thing going on.


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[nickwm21]

I don’t like overlap. I try to demo/buy/sell until I find the perfect ski in each category for me. I do not own more than one ski in each waist class.

I’ll bring two skis to the hill most days and make a game time decision at the car. I sometimes switch at lunch, but rarely.

If its hard: Bonafide and LP105
If it’s soft: LP105 and GPO
Powder Day: GPO and Protest

Touring I only have 1 ski - my Ravens. I really enjoy only having 1 touring ski and not having to think about that decision and second guessing ski choice on a tour. My tours are short and casual, I don’t charge like I do at the resort.

To me this is like the goggle lens dilemma; we never knew we needed a different goggle lens for each light condition until you bought goggles that came with multiple lenses. Now that’s a big decision you have to make at the car each morning, and about 25% of the time you get it wrong... before, when you only had one lens, you never got that decision wrong because it wasn’t a decision...


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