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  1. #176
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    Canada
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    288
    Quote Originally Posted by skiitsbetter View Post
    Were the ski resorts able to recruit enough staff? Is it viable to operate less lifts/terrain/indoor spaces if it means resorts can survive with just local traffic? A ski season with just the original terrain...
    My sense is that Pano did OK with kids staying on work visas and such.

    I think limiting operations for smaller crowds depends on the resort layout. For instance taking our the summit lift a Pano removes 40% of the terrain and 80 odd percent ( my guesses) of expert terrain. Maybe more if the total given size of Taynton.

    As I said, my wife is adamant we take enough food that we donít need to hit a store for two weeks. Once we hit that point, we should be clear for others and follow shopping safety protocols. Plan is to work from there Jan-and Feb.
    Using Tapatalk

  2. #177
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
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    1,062
    Quote Originally Posted by nickinbc View Post
    Just heard CBC Daybreak South interview Aaron Cooperman of Sol Mountain Lodge. They are cancelling bookings by out of area customers and are getting 'some pushback' from guests, particularly those from Alberta, who point out that the advice on non-essential travel isn't an order. Not a nice position for them to be in, doing what they think is right at the cost of upsetting customers.
    I can vouch for this, just had my AST2 cancelled up there but Sol was good about the refund. Super bummed as I would have been up there with some pros.

  3. #178
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    491
    CBC news report about ACC hut reservations and covid:-

    When Steve Spencer of Rossland, B.C., and friends entered a lottery back in May to book a backcountry ski trip in the West Kootenays, provincial COVID-19 case counts were low and staycations near home encouraged.

    His 15-member group secured a week-long reservation for Jan. 16, 2021, at the popular Kokanee Glacier cabin, but by autumn B.C. was hit hard by a second wave of the coronavirus.

    Despite repeated attempts since November to cancel or defer the reservation, Spencer says the Alpine Club of Canada [ACC}, which administers bookings and payments for the cabin, has refused to budge.

    Now, the group faces a bill of more than $15,000 for an adventure vacation they no longer intend to take.

    "We're asking the Alpine Club of Canada to facilitate us doing what we feel to be the right thing and they're just refusing to cooperate and it's become very frustrating," said Spencer.

    Right now in B.C., a provincial health order only allows gatherings between people who already live together.
    Group asks for flexibility

    The ACC, a not-for-profit mountain club with 16,000 members, maintains several backcountry huts across Canada. The Kokanee Glacier cabin is among its most popular, requiring a lottery system for its coveted ski weeks.

    Guests are flown to Kokanee Glacier cabin by helicopter in the winter which is included in the price of the reservation. Once there, backcountry enthusiasts sleep and eat dormitory-style, while exploring Kokanee Glacier Provincial Park.

    Spencer says ever since COVID case numbers began to rise again in B.C., his group has attempted to contact the ACC to figure out an alternative, whether that be allowing a smaller group to visit at a reduced rate, deferring the trip for the following year or even an outright cancellation and refund.

    "Universally, we felt it was irresponsible of us to go," he said.

    But the ACC declined all those options, said Spencer.

    In a statement to CBC News, Lawrence White, executive director of the ACC, said it has required groups to book the entire Kokanee Glacier cabin since June, regardless of occupancy, due to COVID-19.

    "The ACC cannot predict what authorities will deem to be acceptable social bubbles which is why we expect users to stay informed, act accordingly, and follow regional legislation," he said. "We eagerly await an update from provincial health authorities in January."

    ACC did offer to resell the group's ski week but on the condition that if it hadn't sold by Dec. 1, 2020, the group would still be on the hook for the bill.

    When the COVID-19 pandemic first hit B.C., the ACC cancelled all of its remaining 2020 bookings for its Kokanee Glacier ski weeks offering all its guests deferrals, according to its website.

    It also clearly states that the ski week cabins have a 100 per cent non-refundable policy, but Spencer had hoped there would be flexibility given the unpredictable nature of the current pandemic.

    In an e-mail exchange, the ACC said the Jan. 16 booking is not currently affected by the Public Health Order.

    "I cannot cancel your booking and provide you with a credit at this time. We will need to wait to see what the PHO [public health order] is for the dates of your trip to Kokanee before making any further decisions," wrote the ACC.

    B.C.'s most recent restriction on gatherings is in place until Jan. 8, a week-and-a-half before Spencer's booking. But even if the restrictions were to be lifted, Spencer says many in the group no longer feel it's a responsible to go on the trip.

    "If it's wise to not go now, it's going to be wise not to go in mid-January," he said.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...rals-1.5858088

  4. #179
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Beautiful BC
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    2,865
    It's called bad customer service. The ACC might not have the resources to wait out the pandemic. Huts still need maintenance and the club still has expenses like insurance.

    The problem with societies is no one is in charge. They might have a "no refund" policy that can't be easily changed.
    If you have a problem & think that someone else is going to solve it for you then you have two problems.

  5. #180
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    Beautiful BC
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    Double post
    If you have a problem & think that someone else is going to solve it for you then you have two problems.

  6. #181
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Last Best City in the Last Best Place
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    4,097
    These people booked a clearly stated nonrefundable trip during a pandemic. They should either figure out a way to safely take the trip (testing), or accept their loss.

  7. #182
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Dog View Post
    It's called bad customer service. The ACC might not have the resources to wait out the pandemic. Huts still need maintenance and the club still has expenses like insurance.

    The problem with societies is no one is in charge. They might have a "no refund" policy that can't be easily changed.
    How so? I run a society (far removed from the ACC) and certainly have the ability to respond in situations like this. Societies/associations tend to have less revenue generating opportunities during COVID and so I suspect this is more about revenue than poor protocol. Either way its a bad look.




  8. #183
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    give'er eh!
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    1,746
    Did this guy not purchase trip interruption or cancellation insurance? Thatís what every other operator is telling clients.

    Who would spend $15k on a trip thatís not backed by insurance?

  9. #184
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    23,098
    its not a business its a club,

    whomever is respancerable to administrate probably has a real job as well where he is just trying to get by

    2020 and 2021 was a really bad time to book anything, i wouldn't have

    the money is very likely all gone
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  10. #185
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Somewhere else
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdirt View Post
    Did this guy not purchase trip interruption or cancellation insurance? Thatís what every other operator is telling clients.

    Who would spend $15k on a trip thatís not backed by insurance?
    This.

    Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  11. #186
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Beautiful BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peyto View Post
    How so? I run a society (far removed from the ACC) and certainly have the ability to respond in situations like this. Societies/associations tend to have less revenue generating opportunities during COVID and so I suspect this is more about revenue than poor protocol. Either way its a bad look.
    Every society (in Canada) has a constitution and bylaws that the directors and executive are expected to follow. Usually the bylaws are about elections and how meetings are run but there could be a "no deficits" bylaw (for example) or other financial bylaws. In my club (not the ACC) we have a lodge and all sorts of rules (not bylaws) about refunds because some members would book and then cancel at the last minute when the weather wasn't to their liking. At least the lodge manager had the discresion to offer refunds if needed. But once the manager starts offering easy refunds then everyone starts asking. Offering deferrals or credits has issues too -- they're a liability on the books and eventually the ACC has to provide a service and not receive revenue for it.

    I like that Dr. Henry has [generally] avoided shutting things down but it creates a gray area that insurance companies (and businesses) will exploit. The ACC hut isn't closed but it's use is restricted to "households" so it's not open in the usual sense either.
    If you have a problem & think that someone else is going to solve it for you then you have two problems.

  12. #187
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Spokane/Schweitzer
    Posts
    6,234
    I don't blame the club for this decision. As of the moment, the restrictions don't extend to the dates of the trip. If the restrictions get extended into the time of the trip then, yes, a refund is likely due as it's out of the control of the skiers. However, for them to try and bail out now is just their decision, not mandated, and they're attempting to make their own determination of whether it will be safe. I don't think trip insurance would even cover this, not without a mandate. They just need to be more patient and see what the next couple of weeks hold. In the meantime, they should plan to go and get their refund if they're turned away by the Province.

  13. #188
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    invermere
    Posts
    839
    They rolled the dice by booking a trip in this shitty situation. If you're gambling better be prepared to lose.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

  14. #189
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Down by the river, Terrace, BC
    Posts
    3,886
    Quote Originally Posted by pano-dude View Post
    They rolled the dice by booking a trip in this shitty situation. If you're gambling better be prepared to lose.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
    Well said. While I'm no super fan of the ACC, pano-dude summed it up nicely.

  15. #190
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    give'er eh!
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    1,746
    Quote Originally Posted by pano-dude View Post
    They rolled the dice by booking a trip in this shitty situation. If you're gambling better be prepared to lose.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
    The house always wins!

  16. #191
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    23,098
    I had a non-refundable trip booked last spring which i blew off rather than travel to SE asia and some how my sister got the money back

    I can't imagine booking a non-refundable trip in the current covid situation
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #192
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    436
    Based on the piling on here, I doubt amyone cares, but he is a solid Mag. Or at least he used active here. I haven't seen anything from him in a bit on here.

    I highly doubt it is about the money either. It would be about the moral and health issues surrounding doing the trip while Covid numbers are going up.

  18. #193
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOLOCOMan View Post
    Based on the piling on here, I doubt amyone cares, but he is a solid Mag. Or at least he used active here. I haven't seen anything from him in a bit on here.

    I highly doubt it is about the money either. It would be about the moral and health issues surrounding doing the trip while Covid numbers are going up.
    I don't think anyone is questioning anyone's character, just this decision.

    I don't care who you are, booking a vacation in a pandemic is risky and if you're going to do it, insurance, or a willingness to accept a loss seems reasonable.

    Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  19. #194
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rossland BC
    Posts
    1,406
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
    I don't blame the club for this decision. As of the moment, the restrictions don't extend to the dates of the trip. If the restrictions get extended into the time of the trip then, yes, a refund is likely due as it's out of the control of the skiers. However, for them to try and bail out now is just their decision, not mandated, and they're attempting to make their own determination of whether it will be safe. I don't think trip insurance would even cover this, not without a mandate. They just need to be more patient and see what the next couple of weeks hold. In the meantime, they should plan to go and get their refund if they're turned away by the Province.
    Exactly. Current PHOs apply until January 8th. Theoretically they could change, but if they donít, and gatherings are prohibited, the ACC will adapt their policies. Iíve heard (from a good source) that they have a contingency plan for operating at at up to a 6 person capacity.

  20. #195
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    436
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    I don't think anyone is questioning anyone's character, just this decision.

    I don't care who you are, booking a vacation in a pandemic is risky and if you're going to do it, insurance, or a willingness to accept a loss seems reasonable.

    Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk
    In the Rockies thread, you are quite pro doing things to prevent the spread of Covid, but seem to br saying otherwise here. I have no involvement with the group, but I think the point that they are trying to make is that perhaps a business should not be able to make something non-refundable if it means one would have to break the current health regulations? Sometimes a business needs to be willing to adapt to current situations. I too work in the tour business, and we are fully refunding pre booked tours for any reason at all right now. But we certainly wouldn't keep someone's money when they can't legally physically make their pre booked tour by law right now.

  21. #196
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOLOCOMan View Post
    In the Rockies thread, you are quite pro doing things to prevent the spread of Covid, but seem to br saying otherwise here. I have no involvement with the group, but I think the point that they are trying to make is that perhaps a business should not be able to make something non-refundable if it means one would have to break the current health regulations? Sometimes a business needs to be willing to adapt to current situations. I too work in the tour business, and we are fully refunding pre booked tours for any reason at all right now. But we certainly wouldn't keep someone's money when they can't legally physically make their pre booked tour by law right now.
    I'm not saying anything of the sort.

    I don't think they should go, and I don't think they should even have booked the trip in the first place given that we are in a pandemic and we were warned continuously by experts that there would be a second wave in the winter and it would be worse than the first wave.

    This might be an unpopular opinion but I don't think a business should be held responsible for something out of their control, like current restrictions. I.e. I don't think the airlines should have to give everyone their money back for tickets that were purchased that were purposefully bought cheaper and non-refundable.

    I bought a ski pass this year knowing I might not be able to use it and I accept that risk.

    About 8 years ago I did not demand a refund from castle mountain for my pass when they were forced to close in February due to weather conditions outside of their control.

    Hell... even outside of a pandemic, purchasing a non-refundable trip and choosing not to pay extra for cancellation insurance, and then demanding the benefits that you didn't pay for would be arrogant... let alone when it was pretty clear that a second wave and shutdown were a distinct possibility.

    I'm glad your company is in a position to be able to refund people and good on you for doing so, but not everyone's business can float that.

    Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  22. #197
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    give'er eh!
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    I think the main point to take away from this right now is the group doesnít think they should go. Thatís there personal opinion. The ACC is still operating the trip and has not been forced to cancel there trip. If u choose not to go-you shouldnít be entitled to a refund. The ACC could have sold the trip to someone else and in the end they lose because these people are choosing not to go...not really a news item in my opinion....more like whinning!
    People need to be held accountable-maybe 15k will change that attitude...lol
    Last edited by teamdirt; 01-01-2021 at 09:25 AM.

  23. #198
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    14,702
    The ACC would lose in court in a heartbeat in Merca. No ideas about the law up there, but impossibility/illegality is a real concept.

  24. #199
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    The ACC would lose in court in a heartbeat in Merca. No ideas about the law up there, but impossibility/illegality is a real concept.
    What is illegal about not refunding money for a non-refundable trip?

    I get why someone who books a trip doesn't want to pay when something comes up that is beyond their control, but that's what insurance is for.

    And it's beyond the control of the ACC as well... why does the user expect the ACC to swallow the same unforeseen cost they don't want to? It's not like the ACC is some high profit margin conglomerate... it's a not for profit organization.

    Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk
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  25. #200
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    invermere
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    839
    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    The ACC would lose in court in a heartbeat in Merca. No ideas about the law up there, but impossibility/illegality is a real concept.
    And this is partly why insurance is so fucking expensive thanks to the Merican sue happy culture.
    I'm stupid and spill my coffee, I'm suing because the coffee is hot and i got a booboo now....


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