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Thread: SAR tobos

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    679

    SAR tobos

    I think it's reasonable to expect a significant increase in backcountry skiers this season. A whole lot of them will be brand new, all set with the latest BC ski app/map, but maybe not equipped with gear, training, and some kind of a plan for the (predictable) unexpected.

    Our rescue team has sleds with belay points that slide OK, but a bunch of us can manage patrol sleds, which are, by far, the best way we know to move skiers who can't move themselves.

    Cascades are durable, but heavy AF. Would easily trade some of that durability for weight savings. Anybody have any experience with anything good?

  2. #2
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    Aug 2018
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    i don't have any experience with sleds but is there a sar thread? i'm sure there are some more sar mags out there.
    In the room the women come and go
    Talking of Michelangelo

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by HHTELE View Post
    Cascades are durable, but heavy AF. Would easily trade some of that durability for weight savings. Anybody have any experience with anything good?
    Yea 60lbs of cascade toboggan are not the easiest to lug up.

    I'm not sure where your operate, but, here are some things that work well in CO for any combination of skinning up with the equipment, helicopter insertion, or sled assist:

    carbon/ti akja (40lbs $4300) is amazing and vastly lighter than a normal patrol cascade breakdown, and it performs much better in soft snow as an Akja should. Akja is amazing for it's purpose of going down through soft snow. It breaks down and fits in the helo pretty well. The parts split up well between 2-3 people if you have to ascend with it to reach the patient. You can also get the attachment to hook it up to a snowmobile. This is your solution if you have people who know how to run a rig.

    Sked (96x36" 17lbs $700) or Foxtrot (80x18" 4.5lbs $190) plus some other fun patient packaging depending on the situation (eg full body vacuum splint and a hypo bags). Skeds and Foxtrots drag and lower well over snow and scree, although the latter trades rigidity for portability. Either of these light enough for one rescuer to skin in with, but if you have to go far or in a hurry, Foxtrot! you can always drop the foxtrot in another toboggan or the Sked when follow on teams meet the extrication team.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  4. #4
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    Short hauling.

  5. #5
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    the Low Sierra
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    http://www.edgerescue.com/products

    another patrol sled option - I've got very little experience with them but some peopole really like them - lighter than Cascade and reasonable price
    I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.

  6. #6
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    Dec 2005
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    Kootenays
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    Cascade carbon/ti 2pc Model 350 is the bomb like Summit said. We got the 2 part carbon handles for packing it in and a set of 1 pc alu handles for more accessible missions and training. We can just fit it in to a long line rescue bag as well so that's nice.

    Expect to spend a little time on smoothing rough edges and stuff like that. Cascade isn't exactly known for their fit and finish.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~mikey b View Post
    http://www.edgerescue.com/products

    another patrol sled option - I've got very little experience with them but some peopole really like them - lighter than Cascade and reasonable price
    This is a great company, used their sleds when I was still actively patrolling. The owner of the company (Toby) is a friend as well.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    679
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Yea 60lbs of cascade toboggan are not the easiest to lug up.

    I'm not sure where your operate, but, here are some things that work well in CO for any combination of skinning up with the equipment, helicopter insertion, or sled assist:

    carbon/ti akja (40lbs $4300) is amazing and vastly lighter than a normal patrol cascade breakdown, and it performs much better in soft snow as an Akja should. Akja is amazing for it's purpose of going down through soft snow. It breaks down and fits in the helo pretty well. The parts split up well between 2-3 people if you have to ascend with it to reach the patient. You can also get the attachment to hook it up to a snowmobile. This is your solution if you have people who know how to run a rig.

    Sked (96x36" 17lbs $700) or Foxtrot (80x18" 4.5lbs $190) plus some other fun patient packaging depending on the situation (eg full body vacuum splint and a hypo bags). Skeds and Foxtrots drag and lower well over snow and scree, although the latter trades rigidity for portability. Either of these light enough for one rescuer to skin in with, but if you have to go far or in a hurry, Foxtrot! you can always drop the foxtrot in another toboggan or the Sked when follow on teams meet the extrication team.
    So about hose handles....
    Weatern Maine, not much open terrain here. But, a whole lot of glading going on. Tight northeast trees.
    Can those sleds be run with just one rescuer? Barely room for one set of handles around here.

  9. #9
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    Dec 2005
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    I have a friend from Michigan on our crew and he used to use them lots. You can pop off one or two handles to get through tight spots, pop them back on etc. You can also do falling leaf manoeuvres through tight trees because the sled will go both ways if you need to.

    Think of it like a rock crawler instead of a Ferrari.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    679
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Yea 60lbs of cascade toboggan are not the easiest to lug up.

    I'm not sure where your operate, but, here are some things that work well in CO for any combination of skinning up with the equipment, helicopter insertion, or sled assist:

    carbon/ti akja (40lbs $4300) is amazing and vastly lighter than a normal patrol cascade breakdown, and it performs much better in soft snow as an Akja should. Akja is amazing for it's purpose of going down through soft snow. It breaks down and fits in the helo pretty well. The parts split up well between 2-3 people if you have to ascend with it to reach the patient. You can also get the attachment to hook it up to a snowmobile. This is your solution if you have people who know how to run a rig.

    Sked (96x36" 17lbs $700) or Foxtrot (80x18" 4.5lbs $190) plus some other fun patient packaging depending on the situation (eg full body vacuum splint and a hypo bags). Skeds and Foxtrots drag and lower well over snow and scree, although the latter trades rigidity for portability. Either of these light enough for one rescuer to skin in with, but if you have to go far or in a hurry, Foxtrot! you can always drop the foxtrot in another toboggan or the Sked when follow on teams meet the extrication team.
    Super informative- PM sent. Though a later poster answered one of the questions about running just one handle.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    679
    My favorite. Preferably before I make it to the trailhead.
    But anything skied in my region means human power to the pick up point. Sometimes snow barely makes it through the trees, let alone a rescuer with a Bauman bag,

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    voting in seattle
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    What's the potential for hoist out?

    How much do we care about the patients feelings and comfort?
    SKEDCOs with a sleeping pad in them for insulation/comfort are relatively cheap, light, and somewhat easy to get in and out of the injury site. You can vertical and horizontal hoist with them or drag/carry out. They suck to be in though; but patient pain: patient problem. There are lighter options currently available but they cost more and aren't great for long distance dragging. You want two people for moving a sked in any mountainous terrain.
    Last edited by XavierD; 11-19-2020 at 10:18 AM.

  13. #13
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    What's the potential for hoist out?
    Low, really low.

    We have thick tree cover up to most peaks. Where we don't have trees, it's usually flat enough that most people won't have the momentum to mess themselves up until they are pretty deep into the woods, and far enough downhill we aren't going back uphill in the winter.

    Even where we do have clearings, they often aren't wide enough for a long-line rescues as we aren't usually working with helicopters that have winches (even though the Coast Guard heli trains a bunch near my office, they don't come into the mountains).

    The carbon Akja looks sweet, but probably out of our teams budget. The regular 2 piece 350 + snacks/encouragement/heckling of whomever is lugging it uphill seems more likely.

  14. #14
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    Oct 2009
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    Maine Coast
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    Maine has had the snowmobile clubs establish heli evacuation sites and trails are everywhere

  15. #15
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    The comment above about patient's feelings/comfort made me chuckle in regards to evac. We had a few victims suddenly and miraculously become ambulatory when we explained how we were going to short haul them out.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    679
    Quote Originally Posted by cat in january View Post
    Maine has had the snowmobile clubs establish heli evacuation sites and trails are everywhere
    Yup. It's getting them to the trail that's the issue.
    The reality is, that in much of Maine, a patient may wait a really long time for a response. Warden service has good response time with snomos, but that isn't where people tend to get hurt. Other than snowmobilers.
    I think it's a great idea for BC skiers anywhere to know what kind of response is likely if they call for help.

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