NBA 2020-2021, Let the Season Begin

[TahoeJ]

Poor Phoenix. Finally in the playoffs, earn the 2 seed, and they have to play either the Lakers or Warriors in the first round. Heh. FWIW, the Warriors do have the best net rating in the league over the last 20 games of the season. But I really just want their young players to get some playoff experience in advance of Klay's return.

[altasnob]

Don't the Lakers have the highest winning % in the NBA when both AD and Lebron play? And Warriors have a scoring champ. Tough 7 and 8 seeds. I really want the Warriors to win that play in game with Lakers because I think the Clippers tanked their last several games with the specific intention of avoiding Lakers in round 2, and Lakers losing to the Warriors would screw up that plan.

[MultiVerse]

With the close of the regular season it's time to award MVP, DPOY, and ROTY.

MVP: 1) CP3 2) Curry 3) Jokic , honorable mention Embid & Antetokounmpo

DPOY: 1) Simmons 2) Gobert 3) Adebayo

ROTY: 1) LaMelo Ball 2) Anthony Edwards 3) Tyrese Haliburton

Note: The above is not a prediction of the eventual award winners, it's an unbiased regular season ranked list.

[plugboots]

With the close of the regular season it's time to award MVP, DPOY, and ROTY.

MVP: 1) CP3 2) Curry 3) Jokic , honorable mention Embid & Antetokounmpo

DPOY: 1) Simmons 2) Gobert 3) Adebayo

ROTY: 1) LaMelo Ball 2) Anthony Edwards 3) Tyrese Haliburton

Note: The above is not a prediction of the eventual award winners, it's an unbiased regular season ranked list.

Decent list, but I'd maybe re-order the MVP, and put Draymond at 3 instead of Adebayo

[Danno]

Jokic will win MVP, and Gobert will win DPOY.

[54-46]

Don't the Lakers have the highest winning % in the NBA when both AD and Lebron play? And Warriors have a scoring champ. Tough 7 and 8 seeds. I really want the Warriors to win that play in game with Lakers because I think the Clippers tanked their last several games with the specific intention of avoiding Lakers in round 2, and Lakers losing to the Warriors would screw up that plan.

Yeah, agreed - Fuck LA!

[The Reverend Floater]

As long as the Lakers eat shit, I'll be happy.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Huh, they've been banging the drum for Joel Embiid's hobbled ass to win MVP all year.

Seriously, all I hear bout is how amazing Embiid is, that Doc has a plan for Brooklyn, that Simmons is the man on Def, etc. They get a lot of love and it's deserved.

Would love nothing more than to see the Lakers sent packing in the play-in. Hopefully there are a bunch of celebs there to watch them get taken out.

[brutah]

Jokic will win MVP, and Gobert will win DPOY.

And I'm guessing Anthony Edwards wins ROTY. (more PPG and played more games than LaMelo)

I don't think there's much debate this year.

[Danno]

ROTY is an interesting one, as Ball was clearly the better player overall but missed a chunk of time. I'm not really sure on that one, the pundits I have seen predict Ball.

COTY is an interesting one: do you go with Snyder, Williams, or Thibs? My feeling is Snyder. But my gut says they will give it to Thibs because Knicks.

[MarcusBrody]

With the close of the regular season it's time to award MVP, DPOY, and ROTY.

MVP: 1) CP3 2) Curry 3) Jokic , honorable mention Embid & Antetokounmpo

DPOY: 1) Simmons 2) Gobert 3) Adebayo

ROTY: 1) LaMelo Ball 2) Anthony Edwards 3) Tyrese Haliburton

Note: The above is not a prediction of the eventual award winners, it's an unbiased regular season ranked list.

I don't see how you could put Jokic behind those other guys in terms of MVP voting. His team faced a ton of injuries after the short off season but he played almost every game and put up one of the most efficient offensive seasons of all time. In most advanced stats I've seen, he's so far ahead of anyone else that he's in a different category (in Basketball-Reference's Value Above Replacement Player his lead over #2 is the same gap as between 2 and 33 and he lead's 538's RAPTOR Wins Above Replacement by a huge margin). I do agree that Paul likely provided valuable leadership for the Suns, but it wasn't his strongest season overall from a play perspective (at least it didn't seem to be when I watched him play and stats seem to bear out him being very good, but down from his peak) and while I don't think counting stats are the be all end all, he averaged less assists than his competitor Jokic, who is a center.

And I would have Gobert way over Simmons, who I actually love defensively. Maybe it's just seeing more of the West Coast teams and having a soft spot for the Jazz, but they were the best team in the NBA this year and that was largely down to playing great D, which Gobert anchored. Simmons also played great D, but he had Embiid (when he played) to help him (and who graded out by most advanced stats I've seen as a more valuable defender this year).

ROTY is an interesting one, as Ball was clearly the better player overall but missed a chunk of time. I'm not really sure on that one, the pundits I have seen predict Ball.

COTY is an interesting one: do you go with Snyder, Williams, or Thibs? My feeling is Snyder. But my gut says they will give it to Thibs because Knicks.

I'm going for Williams as writers love a turnaround narrative and the Suns finished notably higher than the Knicks. I think all three would be really deserving this year though, I just think that Snyder is getting a bit overlooked given the Jazz being pretty consistently good over the past few years.

[Danno]

I don't think Snyder is going to win. But taking a good team and turning it into a great team, with a very similar roster to the year before, is super hard. All three coaches are worthy and I wouldn't complain about any of them, but adding CP3 to the Suns is not insignificant. Williams would actually be 3rd on my ballot.

[TahoeJ]

My MVP ballot...

1. Jokic. Dominant and played in every game. He's not always flashy but he just gets it done.

2. Curry. Carried that team on his back and still put up crazy numbers despite opposing defenses selling out to try to stop him. They'd have the worst record in the league without him. Also, check the real plus minus: http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

3. CP3. While the Suns showed a huge improvement last year in the bubble, hard to deny what his leadership added to that team, just like he did in OKC.

4. Gobert. Anchor of the team with the best record and DPOY without question.

LeBron / Embiid / Paul George - were all great when they played, but none of them played enough games.

[Adolf Allerbush]

My MVP ballot...

1. Jokic. Dominant and played in every game. He's not always flashy but he just gets it done.

2. Curry. Carried that team on his back and still put up crazy numbers despite opposing defenses selling out to try to stop him. They'd have the worst record in the league without him. Also, check the real plus minus: http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

3. CP3. While the Suns showed a huge improvement last year in the bubble, hard to deny what his leadership added to that team.\

4. Gobert. Anchor of the team with the best record and DPOY without question.

LeBron / Embiid / Paul George - were all great when they played, but none of them played enough games.

Agree on all of that, except maybe Gobert. BS had a good discussion on his defense, which is impressive, but I don't understand why he doesn't rotate out of the key to help when Utah's guards/forwards get beat? BS claims it's because he wants to keep getting DPOY honors and if he rotates out it makes his defensive stats look less impressive. Ben Simmons is all over the place on D so I think I'd give it to him.

[Danno]

TahoeJ, your list is pretty solid.

As for Gobert, yes he is not as versatile as Simmons (can't guard 1-5) and sticks within his system. And I may have been inclined to undervalue him, to not trust the stats or somehow think it's the system and not him. But I watched a couple of Jazz games (well, parts of a couple of games), and it is visually obvious the impact he has. You can see the opposition take his specific existence into account any time they are near the basket, in ways I do not see WRT to any other player.

And let's not forget that Simmons has a DPOY candidate anchor as his center, and another top flight wing defender in Thybulle. Gobert's teammates are mostly scrubs when it comes to D.

[MultiVerse]

I agree with everyone that Jokic is the likely MVP winner but CP3 added more value to the Suns than either Jokic did to Denver or Curry did to the Warriors.

CP3 is ahead of Jokic because Denver even without Murray is a better team than Phoenix, yet the Suns had a better season. And even though the Suns are a better team than the Warriors, they're not that much better to justify awarding the MVP to a 7th or 8th seed over a 1st or 2nd seed (the 1&2 seeds were close). Curry is ahead of Jokic because Curry's season is arguably as good as his previous MVP seasons and the Nuggets are the 4th seed, but for the Clippers tanking against the Hornets & Rockets.

Even though CP3 is not very likeable, he was clearly the most valuable regular season player.

Simmons is ranked ahead of Gobert for DPOY because Simmons can guard all five positions. Gobert's inability to guard against perimeter shooters is the Achilles heel for the Jazz. It's creates a matchup problem.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I agree with everyone that Jokic is the likely MVP winner but CP3 added more value to the Suns than either Jokic did to Denver or Curry did to the Warriors.

CP3 is ahead of Jokic because Denver even without Murray is a better team than Phoenix, yet the Suns had a better season. And even though the Suns are a better team than the Warriors, they're not that much better to justify awarding the MVP to a 7th or 8th seed over a 1st or 2nd seed (the 1&2 seeds were close). Curry is ahead Jokic because Curry's season is arguably as good as his previous MVP seasons and the Nuggets are the 4th seed but for the Clippers tanking against the Hornets & Rockets.

Even though CP3 is not very likeable, he was clearly the most valuable regular season player.

Simmons is ranked ahead of Gobert for DPOY because Simmons can guard all five positions.

Disagree that Denver without Murray is a better team than Phoenix full strength. Also, if you drop Jokic and Murray off, which I think is what you're getting at, Denver would not be in they playoffs is my bet. If you drop CP3 off of Phoenix i think they still make the playoffs. Point is, Denver is not in the playoffs without Joker, but Phoenix is, and if we agree, then Joker is more valuable to the team.

Joker vs. Curry is another thing...IMV the warriors without Curry are dog shit this year...so he may be more valuable in that case than Joker...hard to say what team would be worse without their either of them, but I think the Ws.

[MultiVerse]

It's not drop Jokic and Murray, it's drop Jokic or Murray. Denver with either Jokic or Murray are better than the Suns without CP3. Curry was very impression this year, but the Suns went from the 10th seed last year to one game away from the 1st seed this year. With players like Green, Wiggons, Oubre, the Warriors are not as bad as people think.

[TahoeJ]

Warriors without Curry: 1-8

Warriors with Curry: 38 - 25 ... which is a .603 win percentage, which would put them in the 5 seed in the west. Not to mention the team sacrificed some wins earlier this season while trying to develop younger players. Once they were all in and trying to win games they were one of the best teams in the league. Last 20 games they have the best net rating in the NBA (basically since James Wiseman hurt his knee).

I could very easily make an argument for Curry as MVP, but think it would be a disservice to what Jokic has done. But no way in my book is CP3 more valuable than Curry. Booker and those guys were starting to play some good ball before he arrived (no disrespect to CP3, I did list him as third after all).

Gobert's defense is like anti gravity. He chews up space for the opposing team's offense. No one wants to even mess with him in the paint. Simmons is a great defender but overrated a little bit IMO. Frankly, he press conferenced himself into that conversation more than he did it on the floor.

[Adolf Allerbush]

It's not drop Jokic and Murray, it's drop Jokic or Murray. Denver with either Jokic or Murray are better than the Suns without CP3. Curry would

Ahh, ok. I don't know, IMO its close...very similar level of talent.

Warriors without Curry: 1-8

Warriors with Curry: 38 - 25 ... which is a .603 win percentage, which would put them in the 5 seed in the west. Not to mention the team sacrificed some wins earlier this season while trying to develop younger players. Once they were all in and trying to win games they were one of the best teams in the league. Last 20 games they have the best net rating in the NBA (basically since James Wiseman hurt his knee).

I could very easily make an argument for Curry as MVP, but think it would be a disservice to what Jokic has done. But no way in my book is CP3 more valuable than Curry. Booker and those guys were starting to play some good ball before he arrived (no disrespect to CP3, I did list him as third after all).

Yes, all of this. Well said.

[MultiVerse]

Once they were all in and trying to win games they were one of the best teams in the league. Last 20 games they have the best net rating in the NBA (basically since James Wiseman hurt his knee).

This speaks to my point, the Warriors are not "dog shit" so you can't give the MVP to a player on an underperforming 7th or 8th seed because MVP is a regular season award, not a last 20 games award.

[Adolf Allerbush]

This speaks to my point, the Warriors are not "dog shit" so you can't award MVP to an underperforming 7th or 8th seed because MVP is a regular season award.

you're starting a team, you get to choose one of the following players to form your team around: Jokic, Curry, or CP3.

who do you choose? I'd pick Curry.

[MultiVerse]

Sure, I'd pick Curry or Lebron or Jordon... but CP3 added the most value to any team during the regular season this year.

[TahoeJ]

This speaks to my point, the Warriors are not "dog shit" so you can't give the MVP to a player on an underperforming 7th or 8th seed because MVP is a regular season award, not a last 20 games award.

Well, I mean that 20 game streak also coincides with Curry going on one of the biggest individual runs in NBA history, so there's that. It's not like he was scrubbing around doing nothing earlier in the season. And MVP voters do tend to like how a player performs down the stretch when the stakes are raised.

You put Curry on that Suns team in place of CP3 and they are probably the overwhelming 1 seed.

BTW - starting a team I'd take Jokic right now, just based on his age that's a no-brainer (he's 7 years younger than Curry). Curry will be good into his late 30's most likely, but still. If it was only for one season, then Curry.

[MultiVerse]

I agree that if the regular season had played out differently then Curry would be ranked ahead of CP3. What's the argument here? If we're going with hypotheticals, if Lebron hadn't gotten injured he'd be MVP?