NBA 2020-2021, Let the Season Begin

[Danno]

Kyrie is a douchebag, I thought that was pretty obvious and entirely unrelated to whether there are racists in Boston (narrator: there are many).

[TahoeJ]

Kyrie is a douchebag, I thought that was pretty obvious and entirely unrelated to whether there are racists in Boston (narrator: there are many).

Yup. I mean, given the build up to these games (started by Kyrie) and him saying he hopes it's just about basketball, to then do the logo stomp thing was just a bush league move. It's also worth noting that he did Boston bad with his behavior when he was on the team, not the other way around.

[brutah]

Not really following the jump ball comparison... not even close to the same thing.

I just don't think stomping on a logo is that big of deal, especially considering at the start of every game players jump on it and likely spit on it and then stomp their shoes in it for extra grip. I thought it was a good way to talk shit back to the fans without getting fined and it definitely got a bunch of Celtics fans panties up in a bunch so I'll chalk that up as another win for kyrie.

Every good story needs a villain. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing when a player embraces that role, especially when they back it up with their play on the court. I'm not a big kyrie fan, but his actions speak louder than his words for me and the dude lit up the celtics that game.

[54-46]

Speaking of villains, Trae Young is doing a nice heel turn...

[TahoeJ]

I just don't think stomping on a logo is that big of deal, especially considering at the start of every game players jump on it and likely spit on it and then stomp their shoes in it for extra grip. I thought it was a good way to talk shit back to the fans without getting fined and it definitely got a bunch of Celtics fans panties up in a bunch so I'll chalk that up as another win for kyrie.

Every good story needs a villain. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing when a player embraces that role, especially when they back it up with their play on the court. I'm not a big kyrie fan, but his actions speak louder than his words for me and the dude lit up the celtics that game.

Yeah, so when Kyrie plays alongside MVP's he's totally the man. On his own, not so much.

He was trolling for a reaction, very obviously.

[MultiVerse]

Speaking of villains, Trae Young is doing a nice heel turn...

The Trae Young heel turn combined with nearly full stadiums has made the Nicks-Hawks series a lot of fun.

https://twitter.com/ATLHawks/status/1396647974986559489


Can't help but wonder if the Knicks fan celebration in the streets after winning a single home game in the first round will be bigger than the Brooklyn celebration should the Nets win it all.

[MultiVerse]

This Denver vs Portland game is insane... Double Dame Time!!

[54-46]

Awesome Blazers/Nuggets game!

[teleee]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ould-step-down

Some interesting rumors flying around about the C's. Not sure why the Jazz would need or want Ainge? They seem to be doing just fine as they are.

Sucks for Dame to have the kind of night he had and still come out on the losing end, one hell of a game!

[Self Jupiter]

Celtics make it official: Danny Ainge retires, Brad Stevens takes over position as head of basketball operations. First assignment replacing himself as coach.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...237263367?s=21

[Danno]

Crazy

I hope and expect that Brad will be as good an exec as he was a coach.

[54-46]

Brad Stevens falling up?

Celts fans - care to assess Ainge’s legacy?

[Danno]

Brad Stevens falling up?

Celts fans - care to assess Ainge’s legacy?

Legacy? It's on balance a great one. He won a title and almost won a second. That right there puts him in elite territory. And he managed to retool quite well as those players aged. While they didn't get back to the finals with this new group and you could arguably criticize him for that, for the moves he did or didn't make, for the guys that left in free agency (Kyrie, Al, Gordon, Morris), the Kemba signing, etc, on balance he drafted well, made some great trades, and put together a very good team.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Legacy? It's on balance a great one. He won a title and almost won a second. That right there puts him in elite territory. And he managed to retool quite well as those players aged. While they didn't get back to the finals with this new group and you could arguably criticize him for that, for the moves he did or didn't make, for the guys that left in free agency (Kyrie, Al, Gordon, Morris), the Kemba signing, etc, on balance he drafted well, made some great trades, and put together a very good team.

Some of my friends were saying that the Blazers should fire Olshey and hire Ainge (if he's not really retiring and just looking for another gig). I was thinking about the Olshey performance vs. Ainge when they were both in charge of their respective teams. It's somewhat similar right? Made conference finals but didn't win it all. Generally disappointing during that time period and, for Olshey, wasted an amazingly talented player's prime (Dame). Drafted ok, I guess. Boston plays in the east, which many say is easier than the west, so how does that fit into this comparison? I guess what I'm saying is that would replacing Olshey with Ainge really be an improvement?

[Danno]

Some of my friends were saying that the Blazers should fire Olshey and hire Ainge (if he's not really retiring and just looking for another gig). I was thinking about the Olshey performance vs. Ainge when they were both in charge of their respective teams. It's somewhat similar right? Made conference finals but didn't win it all. Generally disappointing during that time period and, for Olshey, wasted an amazingly talented player's prime (Dame). Drafted ok, I guess. Boston plays in the east, which many say is easier than the west, so how does that fit into this comparison? I guess what I'm saying is that would replacing Olshey with Ainge really be an improvement?

Well, it's a bit artificial to start the comparison solely for the time of Olshey's tenure. Ainge constructed a title team before that, and that team could have won more than one with slightly better luck. Moreover, while both of their teams "made conference finals but didn't win it all", Ainge's teams post-2012 made 3, the Blazers 1, IIRC.

That said, I think Blazers fans are really hard on their coach and GM. It's very hard to put together and keep together a team that is a perennial playoff team. I don't think they have been "generally disappointing" at all, and I don't think Dame's prime has been wasted at all.

If I were Portland, I wouldn't view Ainge as a sure upgrade.

[brutah]

I could see Ainge landing with Portland or Utah. Grew up in Oregon and played college ball at BYU so he has roots in both places. You know the Jazz would love to add a BYU good ole boy to their front office.

Holy shit did Dame go off last night. Saw a clip of Austin Rivers thanking the lord after dame missed a shot in the 2nd OT that cracked me up. Too bad all that effort resulted in a loss.

Lots of potentially good games tonight.

[altasnob]

That said, I think Blazers fans are really hard on their coach and GM. It's very hard to put together and keep together a team that is a perennial playoff team. I don't think they have been "generally disappointing" at all, and I don't think Dame's prime has been wasted at all.

I disagree. Very easy to make the playoffs year and year and not go anywhere like the Blazers. Very difficult to take that next step and get to the finals and win it all. Dame generally steps up when it matters most and take takes mediocre teams much farther than they should ever go. And the season is not over yet. But unless Portland makes it to at least the Western Conference Finals I think Stotts and Olshey should be gone. Olshey was in a difficult spot trying to retool without a full rebuild. But I think he has made a few major blunders that have ended up wasting Lillard's talent (Allen Crabbe signing, CJ's albatross contract). Lillard is so loyal to Portland too. Passing up Lebron's request that he join LA. Not sure if Jody Allen cares enough to make tough decisions, so some high up Vulcan real estate development stooge will end up calling the shots.

[MultiVerse]

Lillard is so loyal to Portland too.

I wonder if he's still feeling loyal after last night's loss. CJ stepping out of bounds, the rest of the team combined for something like 2pts in double overtime, the inability to get a stop against Jokic while Dame makes impossible shots...

[altasnob]

I would agree. Lillard has always had a chip on his shoulder and likes being the underdog. I think Portland suits him well as it is close to Oakland and not a mainstream market. Lillard was only offered scholarships from Weber State, Fullerton State, Bradley, Wichita State and Washington State and only picked Weber State because it offered him a scholarship first.

[Danno]

I disagree. Very easy to make the playoffs year and year and not go anywhere like the Blazers. Very difficult to take that next step and get to the finals and win it all. Dame generally steps up when it matters most and take takes mediocre teams much farther than they should ever go. And the season is not over yet. But unless Portland makes it to at least the Western Conference Finals I think Stotts and Olshey should be gone. Olshey was in a difficult spot trying to retool without a full rebuild. But I think he has made a few major blunders that have ended up wasting Lillard's talent (Allen Crabbe signing, CJ's albatross contract). Lillard is so loyal to Portland too. Passing up Lebron's request that he join LA. Not sure if Jody Allen cares enough to make tough decisions, so some high up Vulcan real estate development stooge will end up calling the shots.

Let me guess: Blazers fan?

"Very easy to make the playoffs year after year"?

There isn't a GM out there who hasn't made some blunders.

[altasnob]

Yes, Blazers fan since I moved to Portland area in 89. My grandmother, was a huge Drexler fan and collected all the Franz bread Blazers cards. I think most Blazer fans would gladly accept not making the playoffs the last eight seasons in exchange for having a legitimate chance to win it all in Lillard's prime.

The PNW has a major lack of championships in all sports. Other than the Seahawks one year, and the Sounders, no teams in Washington and Oregon have won shit for a long, long, time. We're fucking desperate up here. And yet the PNW produces a lot of good basketball players.

[Danno]

So, my thesis was that Blazers fans are too hard on their coach and GM, and a Blazers fan steps in to tell me I'm wrong, that their coach and GM need to go (but doesn't initially identify himself as a Blazers fan). The total lack of self-awareness with your post is pretty damn funny.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Yes, Blazers fan since I moved to Portland area in 89. My grandmother, was a huge Drexler fan and collected all the Franz bread Blazers cards. I think most Blazer fans would gladly accept not making the playoffs the last eight seasons in exchange for having a legitimate chance to win it all in Lillard's prime.

The PNW has a major lack of championships in all sports. Other than the Seahawks one year, and the Sounders, no teams in Washington and Oregon have won shit for a long, long, time. We're fucking desperate up here. And yet the PNW produces a lot of good basketball players.

I agree with you 99%. The Timbers also won a chip.

But seriously, CJ should've been traded long ago prior to his gigantic contract being signed. At that time I was one of few thinking they should either let Dame go and run with CJ or visa versa. In retrospect Dame is obviously the better player, but we've basically got two dudes that do very similar things, albeit Dame does it much better. I think at this point firing the GM is necessary because of his many blunders. Stotts just can't coach defense or this team is just incapable of playing decent defense. I don't expect them to shut down Joker, and he is that good....but good god, Nurk needs to be able to stay on the floor for more than 25 minutes against him.

I don't know what they do, maybe blow it up if they can find someone to take CJ's contract? I don't think Ainge is an upgrade. Danno, Ainge made an amazing series of moves 15 or so years ago to build the championship team under his tenure. After that it's been similar IMV to what Olshey has done. Boston is in the weaker conference, so you could make the playoffs every year playing 500, maybe be a decent seed too. Point is, making it to 3 conference championships is easier out east, but not that easy. I agree that 3 trips out east is still more success than 1 out west.

For Portland, they're never winning it all with a team whose salary is dominated by Dame and CJ. One of those dudes needs to go, and CJ's defense and lack of clutch play makes me think he needs to go. Again, no one wants him though.

[altasnob]

These playoffs have a chance to be absolutely soul crushing for a Blazers fan. Like ship Lillard to LA and send the team to Seattle soul crushing. It was ok to over perform and then lose to Steph or Lebron and large market teams. But seeing the Jazz, Nuggets, Suns, or Mavericks win it all, particularly the Jazz? If any of those teams win it this year, it will be chaos in Portland this off season.

Portland is fucked going forward. CJ has become untradable and they have no available money to bring anyone else in. Lillard is too much of a competitor to not make the playoffs. He will continue to make amazing shots and take the Blazers farther than they should. But Lillard will go down as the greatest NBA player of all time to not make it to the finals (unless Portland trades him).

[Danno]

In a sport where 1 out of 30 teams wins a title every year, and you have to be lucky enough to have landed one (or likely more) of the top 5-10 players in the league to even have a chance at being that 1 team, defining "success" as being that one lucky team is a recipe for your team to be unhappy with whoever runs it.

Adolf, I agree that Ainge isn't much of an upgrade, but for different reasons. I think the Blazers have done pretty damn well under Olshey. And FWIW, Ainge did more than just build a title team 15 years ago. He also had the guts to tear that team apart and rebuild, and then drafted well to rebuild the team. Traded away the #1 pick in 2017 -- a move that takes balls -- and still drafted the best player in that draft at #3. Drafted arguably the best player in the 2016 draft at #3 (at worst he's the second best, IMO), while the top 10 of that draft is littered with guys who turned out to be scrubs. Drafted a solid player at #16 in 2015, a player good enough to be used in a sign and trade to get Kemba (admittedly, the Kemba transaction now looks questionable, but he still deserves credit for being able to pull it off). Drafting Smart in 2014 also looks pretty good, as only two guys drafted later are even arguably better than him (Randle is definitely better looking at this year, but before this year?).

They had 3 top guys leave for pretty much nothing (Kyrie, Horford, Hayward), and if you put those departures on Ainge so be it, but to me that seems like bad luck. They also had some top draft capital -- the Kings pick -- turn out not so good because the Kings decided to be competitive that year.

I could criticize Danny for all sorts of things, but on balance I think he's done a phenomenal job.