Mounting FKS 155 race on Elan Wingman 82 Ti

[homeeey]

I understand I could die, but have confidence I'm up to the job of mounting my own skis.

I have a few questions.

Where can I get a copy of the current Elan Technical manual. So far I can only find the 18/19 version. But not sure of what size bit to use, 3.5mm or 4.1mm?

I am going to mount the FKS 155's the were screwed into a race plate.


on these Elan Wingman 82 Ti's


Near the centerline there is this somewhat cryptic graphic.


and the screw sizes,
4 toe screws all about 10-12mm depending where you measure from.
2 Heal screws 11mm
2 Heal screws 20mm



So I think step one is finding out the diameter and depth to drill the skis. I'll likely have other questions. Anyone know where to find the Elan 2020 tech manual?

Thanks

[mr_pretzel]

Use the Pivot/FKS paper template.

All screws are correct for mounting flat on a ski.

Buy a 4.1 / 9.5mm ski drill bit from slidewright.com

All skis with metal use a 4.1.

Buy alpine tap and tap holes past metal layer.

Add wood glue and screw in bindings.

Or just take them to a shop because you will probably die.

YMMV

[homeeey]

I think I just figured out the G1 marking on the ski. From the manual

3. DRILLING THE HOLES
If not otherwise specified by the ski manufacturer, for all bases use a
4.1 Ø x 9.0 mm drill bit for skis, groups G1 & G2. For skis of, groups
G3 & G4, use a 4.1 Ø x 7.0mm drill bit

[Soups]

God speed. Unless you've already died

[homeeey]

Oh, and thanks MrPretzel. Really appreciate it. Solid info and to the point. Just placed my order.

[homeeey]

Just curious if having Ti in the model of ski is enough to base which diameter bit to use. Seems quite a few from the manual with a Ti in the model use a 3.6mm.

[charlesj]

4.1 for metal
3.6 for not metal

[homeeey]

How do I know my skis have metal? or at least enough metal to get away with the larger bit?

The only metal piece mentioned in my model of Wingman is a single layer titanium. Some of the other models have dual layer.

From the table there are several models labeled with Ti that call of the smaller bit.

Just want to make sure I don't die. Sure wish I could find that tech manual.

[mr_pretzel]

That seems to be a weird thing for elan. 99% of skis with a metal layer use 4.1. You need a 4.1 to match the diameter of the screw or you will not be able to get the screw through the metal layer. Thats why you also have to tap the metal layer.

3.6 is for skis with just wood such that the screws expand the hole and create a strong seal. Metal already provides a good layer to hold the screw in.

[charlesj]

If I'm not mistaken one could use a screw to tap the threads if one is lacking a tap

[ZomblibulaX]

There’s plenty of skis that have a metal base sheet only, or squirt core skis with a perforated metal inlay, that still use a 3.5 bit. If you’re not sure, start with a 3.5 and if you see metal, switch to a 4.1.

Always check screw length on used binders, especially if they came off a race plate. Screw the screws all the way into the binding, and check the penetration depth vs the end of your stepped drill bit. Screws should extend ~8mm into the ski.

I’ve seen plenty of hack technicians that don’t use taps, but they exist for a reason. Skis have layers, tapping helps the screw in to the ski without pulling those layers apart. Same reason countersinking is important for non-metal skis, not tapping can lead to volcanoed holes and spinners, and even bad seals. Spin your tap in 3 1/2 turns, no mas. If it binds up, back it off a little and try again. Probably won’t be a problem with those wingmen(? -mans?) but breaking a tap off in a ski sucks. And since you have plastic brake spring retainers on your FKS, you definitely don’t want to overtorque the screws to get everything in place. Metal topsheets in general are much thinner than they used to be, but I had to use a tap extractor for the first time in 15 years last season and it sucked just as much as it used to.

And DON’T OVER TORQUE THE SCREWS. You’re just getting everything flush with the topsheet, 4nm is not that much torque. Think spark plug, not lug nut.

[skifishbum]

All fischers drill 4.1 and rarely strip
Armada make a 3.9 /4.1 not counter sink but top
A new sharp 3.9 and tap works better than a dull 4.1
Don't strip yur screw or volcano em and you'll be fine

[ZomblibulaX]

All fischers drill 4.1 and rarely strip

Yup. Turns out 1/2mm just isn’t that big a deal.

[homeeey]

0-3 for local shops having any specific info.

My $0 net binding expense just turned into $100. Not sure what I could have done different while attempting to bend the brake arms.

Tools on their way.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

[homeeey]

Elan rep got back to me today. 4.1x9mm

[axebiker]

Yes - use the 4.1, but BE CAREFUL! The titanal layer is not covering the entire top of the ski. I totally rookie'd my mount on the prototype Wingman Cti, expecting to need a lot of pressure to get through it (like I usually expect for metal top mounts), and drilled right the F through the base. First time in over 25 years of mounting bindings... Derp. Fixed it up so you don't really notice, but kicked myself for days after that one.

[homeeey]

Yes - use the 4.1, but BE CAREFUL! The titanal layer is not covering the entire top of the ski. I totally rookie'd my mount on the prototype Wingman Cti, expecting to need a lot of pressure to get through it (like I usually expect for metal top mounts), and drilled right the F through the base. First time in over 25 years of mounting bindings... Derp. Fixed it up so you don't really notice, but kicked myself for days after that one.

Thanks for the heads up. I thought it was only in the tip and tail areas that didn't have a full width of titanal sheet.

Titanal, kind of an interesting word if you break it down.

[homeeey]

Well here we are. All mounted. No spinners.

I ended up using the 3.5/4.1 x 9.5mm stepped Armada bit from Slidewright. Tapped the first few mm's and all is well.....






except a AFD to boot sole gap....



These bindings came off skis with race plates. I can see now that the heel portion of the plate is probably 5mm lower then the part the toe mounts to. Is there a spacer I need to mount these flat?

Thanks again for all the info.

Edit: After reading through a bunch of threads regarding 155 toes, it seems they are similar to P18's that if mounted flat have a 5mm ramp. P18s come with a 4+1mm toe spacer/shims? I've read several threads of people testing no ramp vs 5mm ramp with those bindings, but they don't mention this AFD to boot gap being created.

Looks like I'll be calling Rossi tomorrow.

[homeeey]

Found this which may account for the gap. When I bought the skis with plates (used off CL), one of the AFD's had the Delran/Teflon missing, so I contacted Rossi and they sent new AFD's, if I remember correctly they were the same as the AFD's that came on the ski, but that was some time ago.

[mr_pretzel]

There shouldn’t be any gap and your toes dont look worn.

Doesnt look like anything is missing, in my opinion they ski way better flat than with the riser so I wouldnt worry about that.

Have you turned the DIN’s up?

Is there any actual play if you pull back on the boot?

[homeeey]

Forward pressure seems pretty dialed, rear of boot has a small gap to heal piece, and snaps in nicely, takes some effort to rotate the heal. Seems about right, and can't pull back on the boot when clamped.

The toes of the boots aren't pulling up on the toe pieces. I really think it's the angle created by the higher heal. Seems like the thicker portion of the toe baseplate may be the delta compared to newer toes...i.e. if the baseplate of the 155 was 1mm thinner, the wings would be 1mm lower in relation to the AFD, and thus filling the gap.

There shouldn’t be any gap and your toes dont look worn.

Doesnt look like anything is missing, in my opinion they ski way better flat than with the riser so I wouldnt worry about that.

Have you turned the DIN’s up?

Is there any actual play if you pull back on the boot?

[mr_pretzel]

Fwd pressure sounds good.

If you dont get any play I would just ski them.

The newer AFD’s might not fit the old design perfectly but I dont think you would have been able to snap them in if they didnt fit.

The heel is the same as it’s been forever so it wouldn’t be too low or anything like that.