Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    The Wilds of Maine
    Posts
    2,754

    How to needlessly spend $ for enduro prep?

    Hey nerds,

    So have made some passing attempts at racing the enduro circuit back East (Eastern States Cup) but have never been able to climb out of the mid-pack. Provided there's at least a few races next summer, I'd like to give it a serious whirl.

    From experience, the less pedaling there is, the better I do (Attitash), so gonna have to work on the road bike sprints. I also tend to pop off my pedals in the inevitably off camber/flat or uphill/covered in roots and rocks courses that ESC loves. I run flats and due to a spinal cord injury, have very weak feet and ankles, so basically stand on my heels on flats (and get knocked forward and off the pedals in the jank). Going to try and make some DIY clipless shoes this winter with some old Freerider with the cleat just a little forward of my heel.

    Considering playing with my bike setup as well so it'll run a bit calmer in the ESC mega jank. Going to try some Flow's to see if they'll track more easily than the carbon rims I'm running now (and also be less susceptible to day-ending blow ups).

    I've got an Evil Following and have MegNeg'ed the air shock (Super Deluxe) but am weighing that new Cascade Components link v. getting a coil shock (Marzocchi Bomber CR? I am not doing enough dentistry to get an 11.6). Basically, aside from pedaling fitness and making sure I actually stay on the pedals, trying to make this thing smoother through the truly I-would-never-choose-to-ride-this-trail-on-my-day-off megajank trails that ESC loves.

    Curious what the real bike nerds on here would recommend. Danke!
    "We're in the eye of a shiticane here Julian, and Ricky's a low shit system!" - Jim Lahey, RIP

    Former Managing Editor @ TGR, forever mag.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    9,912
    The best thing I've found is to go to trails you've never ridden before and try to ride them at race pace (with obvious considerations to not being a dick to other people on the trail).

    At least for most of the enduros I've done, I have, at best, the opportunity to preride a small portion of the course. And while I might remember some of the major sections, I'm effectively racing blind on most of it. Getting good at being comfortable going fast when I don't know what's around the next corner made a very noticeable difference in how fast I was going overall.

    Other than that, just ride a lot. Put in a lot of vert. Fuck the road bike - you can get plenty fit on dirt.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by WaistDeepGroomers View Post
    Hey nerds,

    So have made some passing attempts at racing the enduro circuit back East (Eastern States Cup) but have never been able to climb out of the mid-pack. Provided there's at least a few races next summer, I'd like to give it a serious whirl.

    From experience, the less pedaling there is, the better I do (Attitash), so gonna have to work on the road bike sprints. I also tend to pop off my pedals in the inevitably off camber/flat or uphill/covered in roots and rocks courses that ESC loves. I run flats and due to a spinal cord injury, have very weak feet and ankles, so basically stand on my heels on flats (and get knocked forward and off the pedals in the jank). Going to try and make some DIY clipless shoes this winter with some old Freerider with the cleat just a little forward of my heel.

    Considering playing with my bike setup as well so it'll run a bit calmer in the ESC mega jank. Going to try some Flow's to see if they'll track more easily than the carbon rims I'm running now (and also be less susceptible to day-ending blow ups).

    I've got an Evil Following and have MegNeg'ed the air shock (Super Deluxe) but am weighing that new Cascade Components link v. getting a coil shock (Marzocchi Bomber CR? I am not doing enough dentistry to get an 11.6). Basically, aside from pedaling fitness and making sure I actually stay on the pedals, trying to make this thing smoother through the truly I-would-never-choose-to-ride-this-trail-on-my-day-off megajank trails that ESC loves.

    Curious what the real bike nerds on here would recommend. Danke!
    For you? Ebike

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Cascades
    Posts
    567
    Is your ankle problem such that you can't stand with your midfoot on the pedals? Or that you can't unclip from regular clipless pedals? I'm not sure making custom clippy shoes with the cleats really far back is going to work, since unclipping will become more difficult as you move the cleats aft on the shoe. Eventually, your toe will hit the crank when you try to unclip the rear foot, and you won't be able to get your foot out of the pedal even if you can put down huge torque at your heel. This is already a problem for some shoe/pedal/cleat combos.

    If there's any way you could work on strengthening your feet and ankles so you can stand on flats normally and drop your heels, I would do that. And ride a lot.
    kittyhump.com - Fund Max, Cat Appreciation, Bike

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    822
    I'm with Toddball, I don't think the heel clip plan is going to work. On top of the stuff he said (which I agree with), sticking a cleat into a pair of flat pedal shoes without the reinforcement and stiffening to go with it is going to wind up a mess.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
    Posts
    13,383
    OP, I started my enduro career at ESC and MASS enduros. No shortage of riding insane granite east coast jank "trails" while it's 70000% humidity. I still had fun though.

    6 seasons later with a fucking insane bike it still always comes down to one thing.......pedaling. Yes, upper body/core strength, cornering speed, riding without using your brakes etc.....that all helps alot, but people who stand on boxes at the end of the day can fucking PEDAL.

    Just met with a sports physio/mtb coach last week. He explained the importance of building a stronger base. Hours upon hours of zone 2 riding on the trainer/road bike. No reason to do intervals until spring and close to the next race. All winter should just be tons of base building to build the threshhold.

    toast had a good recco too about riding lots of trails blind at race speed. Getting the mental processing speed up to snuff takes a lot of practice and time on the bike. You build that mental processing by riding unfamiliar trails as fast as your can so your brain learns to make decisions in .000003 seconds instead of .003 seconds.

    Also you probably just need to stick to flats at this point as others have said. Custom rear mounted SPD sounds like a nightmare.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    21,692
    a really bad idea, strengthen your feet

    i seen a guy riding his e-bike with heels on the pedals, he was just moving the peddles so the motor would run and it looked really fucking stupid
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Methow Valley
    Posts
    1,126
    WDG can speak for himself but I don't believe spinal injuries necessarily full under the "just get stronger" rule

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
    Posts
    10,845
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    OP, I started my enduro career at ESC and MASS enduros. No shortage of riding insane granite east coast jank "trails" while it's 70000% humidity. I still had fun though.
    Just met with a sports physio/mtb coach last week. He explained the importance of building a stronger base. Hours upon hours of zone 2 riding on the trainer/road bike. No reason to do intervals until spring and close to the next race. All winter should just be tons of base building to build the threshhold.

    .
    Just read a post somewhere disputing the base miles for most riders.... More emphasis on fun if you aren't already putting 16 hours or something ridiculous on the trainer.... I'll have to find it as I'm not purporting on being some sort of expert.
    www.dpsskis.com
    www.point6.com
    formerly an ambassador for a few others, but the ski industry is... interesting.
    Fukt: a very small amount of snow.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
    Posts
    28,602
    Fat-biking could fit into the winter training plan nicely, IMO.
    I’m not planning on racing, but I think I’m getting a coach this year as well.
    Forum Cross Pollinator

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,009
    I've based a successful 20 year race career on simply commuting to work. Lol imagine if I trained?

    Look at the drills that pro racers use. Not just bicycle but motorcross, formula 1, etc. Hand eye coordination, core strength, and balance.

    Finding your zen and flow zone is crucial. I kick meatheads asses because they are overconfident and lose their shit in a race pace environment. Mind you I get my ass kicked also but not by too much. Retired now but moto racing still gets me in that zone.

    You are racing the trail in Enduro. Not each other. Comfort and skill at speed it key. Bikes come race ready out of the box. Adding fancy shit is gonna squeeze out an extra 1% but training adds a lot more than that.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    I've based a successful 20 year race career on simply commuting to work. Lol imagine if I trained?
    Rog!? You snuck back in!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,009
    Ouch. I'm just getting blasted with insults this week. I'm getting old and krusty it seems

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    5,666
    Not an insult. That's just exactly what Rog did. Mtn bike commute was his training when he raced.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    The Wilds of Maine
    Posts
    2,754
    Quote Originally Posted by Toddball View Post
    Is your ankle problem such that you can't stand with your midfoot on the pedals? Or that you can't unclip from regular clipless pedals? I'm not sure making custom clippy shoes with the cleats really far back is going to work, since unclipping will become more difficult as you move the cleats aft on the shoe. Eventually, your toe will hit the crank when you try to unclip the rear foot, and you won't be able to get your foot out of the pedal even if you can put down huge torque at your heel. This is already a problem for some shoe/pedal/cleat combos.

    If there's any way you could work on strengthening your feet and ankles so you can stand on flats normally and drop your heels, I would do that. And ride a lot.
    Thanks for the feedback. So can you only really get out of spds by twisting heel externally? I guess I would assume to twist my toe externally away from the bike to get out. And epoxy a plastic footboard to stifften the shoe and hold the cleats.

    With my spinal injury I lost a lot of nerve use in my posterior chain. Can't stand on my tippy toes and hard for me to get significant pressure across my whole foot because my calves are almost nil. Have custom braces with adjustable stoppers in the ankle joints so at least I have something solid to push off of with my bigger muscles when riding on my heels and with ankle flexed.

    I feel I get a good amount of base cardio in the winter between ski touring and surfing, but good point to add some spinning in during the winter.

    I def notice in the races that I'm not used to jacking my heart rate so high when I'm descending... My legs don't get tired from the descent my heart isn't as well conditioned to all the mini sprints over a stage and bt that and any sections where I lose a pedal and have to get my foot readjusted is where I lose time typically. That's where I thought interval training would be most helpful.

    All great feedback in here tho. Esp staying loose while riding blind trails and all our lovely off camber rootball trails lol

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
    "We're in the eye of a shiticane here Julian, and Ricky's a low shit system!" - Jim Lahey, RIP

    Former Managing Editor @ TGR, forever mag.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    822
    You can clip out by twisting your toe out too, but it's a much less natural motion, and with the cleat in a normal position it rarely works since your heel usually runs into the crank arm or frame. With the super rearward cleat mount it *might* work but I still think it's going to be hard. Especially since you won't have the length of your foot to act as a lever — it's going to take some torque.

    There are a couple companies making a sort of hybrid pedal that's sort of a flat pedal, but with a magnet in the middle that sticks to a big steel plate bolted to the shoe in place of a cleat. My general thought, having never tried them, is that they're pretty kooky, but they might actually be a good middle ground for your specific case.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    570
    Since you are asking about spending lots of $$$$, shouldn’t you be getting a new bike with a bit more travel for the “mega jank?” The Following does not qualify as full enduro.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vacationland
    Posts
    3,696
    Dood, there will be races. We're scheming at the Loaf, details forthcoming...

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,012
    Quote Originally Posted by WaistDeepGroomers View Post
    I feel I get a good amount of base cardio in the winter between ski touring and surfing, but good point to add some spinning in during the winter.

    I def notice in the races that I'm not used to jacking my heart rate so high when I'm descending... My legs don't get tired from the descent my heart isn't as well conditioned to all the mini sprints over a stage and bt that and any sections where I lose a pedal and have to get my foot readjusted is where I lose time typically. That's where I thought interval training would be most helpful.
    Of course, I don't know you/your fitness level, but I on the gravel racing side I used to think bc skiing + a few bike trainer interval days in the week would keep me in top shape on the bike come summer. And sure, that stuff keeps you really fit, but the more I've gotten into it the more I've found the work to make you significantly faster requires a huge time investment. So if you want to podium and want to spend needless money I'd be hiring a coach to structure a training plan built to leave you at top fitness right before race season starts. Or for less $ you could find/buy/follow training plans w/out a coach too.

    Just know the time investment is no joke - you're probably looking at 8-15 hours a week on the trainer through the winter. Which, may make you have to decide if you'd rather ski pow and surf all winter or podium in the summer...
    Last edited by kathleenturneroverdrive; 11-12-2020 at 02:06 PM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    9,912
    Are we talking about moving up beyond mid-pack in pro class? If so, then yeah, do ^^^ that.

    If we're talking about improving results in an amateur class, then no. Just practice riding your bike on difficult trails a lot and get better at bike handling. I am 100% positive that the fitness you acquire simply by riding your mountain bike a lot is more than enough to win any amateur enduro race in the country.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,012
    My POV could also just be the difference between gravel and enduro. There are so many crazy fast roadies in gravel that you have to be that serious about training if you want to place in the top 10-20% of a major race. Although I don't have a coach - that's a bit much for me.

    But, even then, we both agree you need a shit ton of time on the bike to be fast. Can you do that on the EC all winter? Or is he gonna end up on the trainer anyways? And if he is then I think his effort is best spent following a structured training plan.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    9,912
    Quote Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive View Post
    My POV could also just be the difference between gravel and enduro. There are so many crazy fast roadies in gravel that you have to be that serious about training if you want to place in the top 10-20% of a major race. Although I don't have a coach - that's a bit much for me.

    But, even then, we both agree you need a shit ton of time on the bike to be fast. Can you do that on the EC all winter? Or is he gonna end up on the trainer anyways? And if he is then I think his effort is best spent following a structured training plan.
    For gravel, definitely. XC mountain biking too - fitness is king, and if you want to be even marginally competitive in anything but the beginner classes, you've gotta be training (or have some really good genetics).

    Not saying fitness doesn't matter for enduro, but until you're a legit contender in the pro class, bike handling skills will win out over fitness every time. The time spent on the bike to gain those skills is more than adequate for amateur level fitness. Sure, maybe you're a little slower in the spring, but so is everyone else.

    Edit: I'm also biased, since I think sitting on a trainer is easily one of the most hateful things that you can do on a bike. Given the option of sitting on a trainer or being publicly humiliated at every single race I enter, I'll take the humiliation every time. Which is also why I don't race XC.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    21,692
    the neighbor was a world level coach, they would schedule training in Maui, ride up the Volcano ... that should blow off some $$$$
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    CO/UT
    Posts
    2,520
    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    There are a couple companies making a sort of hybrid pedal that's sort of a flat pedal, but with a magnet in the middle that sticks to a big steel plate bolted to the shoe in place of a cleat. My general thought, having never tried them, is that they're pretty kooky, but they might actually be a good middle ground for your specific case.
    I was thinking about these when I read the OP's post too. And FWIW, he's not some JONG riding around on his heels, just to remove any doubt.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    The Wilds of Maine
    Posts
    2,754
    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    Dood, there will be races. We're scheming at the Loaf, details forthcoming...
    Nice! I also heard there's a bike park incoming? Was bummed when the Abrams enduro was cancelled, was looking forward to doing something close to home.

    Quote Originally Posted by greasyslope View Post
    Since you are asking about spending lots of $$$$, shouldn’t you be getting a new bike with a bit more travel for the “mega jank?” The Following does not qualify as full enduro.
    I ride an Offering now! 140 in the back. Just barely enough to qualify for full enduro.

    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    For gravel, definitely. XC mountain biking too - fitness is king, and if you want to be even marginally competitive in anything but the beginner classes, you've gotta be training (or have some really good genetics).

    Not saying fitness doesn't matter for enduro, but until you're a legit contender in the pro class, bike handling skills will win out over fitness every time. The time spent on the bike to gain those skills is more than adequate for amateur level fitness. Sure, maybe you're a little slower in the spring, but so is everyone else.

    Edit: I'm also biased, since I think sitting on a trainer is easily one of the most hateful things that you can do on a bike. Given the option of sitting on a trainer or being publicly humiliated at every single race I enter, I'll take the humiliation every time. Which is also why I don't race XC.
    Just trying to get top 10 amateur class for the 30 y/o's. Best I've done after bc skiing for the winter, doing some inconsistent interval work on the road bike in the spring/summer, and riding like normal is 12th I think. Last race I did the non-pedaly stuff I did better (maybe 11th in the stage), pedally stuff I fell back in the pack (more like 16th). so IMO I do think getting in better pedaling shape (and practicing pedaling in the jank) will make a big diff. If it's steep and rowdy, unless it's wet, I feel more in my element. Could definitely see making an effort to get out on the road bike as soon as the roads are dry-ish sometime in March, if they are, and then riding consistently (b/c I tend not to) would help a ton.

    For those of y'all curious, this is generally what my foot situation looks like (from the Thunder enduro last year): https://www.rootsandrain.com/photos/4601141
    "We're in the eye of a shiticane here Julian, and Ricky's a low shit system!" - Jim Lahey, RIP

    Former Managing Editor @ TGR, forever mag.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •