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  1. #1
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    Pow ski question

    My quiver bloated again up to 15 pairs of skis, after a year of getting it down to 8. Part of the issue is the fat end of my quiver has gotten too specialized, and Iíd like to find a pow ski (>115mm) that would cover what a few of these skis do. The current fat line up is:

    192 ARV JJ 116 (19/20 version)
    192 Mindbender 116c
    193 BMX 115
    193 Shiro
    196 Protest
    189 Pon2oon.

    The JJ probably is less of a pow ski and more of a spring slush ski for me. But itís fine in pow. I really like how easy it slarves around spring corn and pops off stuff.

    The MB116C is my pow touring ski, originally it took the spot of my one pow ski does all, but itís too light weight and fragile for that. It gets tossed around too much when the snow isnít consistent. Way too fragile for sled skiing laps. When Iíve taken them and rolled the sled Iím always afraid they will snap. These probably will stick around as a touring ski.

    The BMX 115 is the charge everything run it over ski, but if the snow isnít bottomless soft, itís harsh on my knees. Itís a great ski, just can be not fun if I grab it on the wrong day. Also a bit fragile to take sled skiing.

    Shiros semi-replaced the BMX 115 as my grab if in doubt ski. They have been my go to pow ski in the 193 and 203 length for almost 5 years, and are the tried and proven. They are damp and stable, but lack any pop, which is fine because they are predictable, but sort of boring. I also donít really like how wide the tips are. My perfect pow ski would be to keep the flex of the Shiro, keep the rocker profile, and move the widest part of the tip back 3-4 inches. Iím hoping the stiffened up ARV JJs are what I described, but I donít think the tails of the JJs will be what the Shiros tails are.

    Protests reputation speak for themselves, they were great in Japan, I just donít grab them much any more. I reach for the Pon2oons, Shiros, or BMX 115s. I really do like the Protests, but itís hard to justify them any more.

    Pon2oons will stick around as the ultra fatty. They work great, super easy to ski, and with some of the tight spots we ski into, having a shorter ski on the super deep days is really nice.


    I skied a version the Enforcer 115 Free and liked it, but then found out the version I was on was changed again. The Proto/M118 isnít really my jam, a bit short and I didnít love it. The Nocta looks interesting, as does the asym C&D. I liked the Quixote for a bit but the camber profile kept changing and made it frustrating to ski. One day my pair would have camber, two days later all rocker, made them too inconsistent. I do have a pair of Rossi Sender Squads (112mm wise) for this season, so maybe skipping right to a 120-125mm wide ski is the answer. Iím open for suggestions.

    What do you guys suggest checking out?


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  2. #2
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    Super Goats.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2FUNKY View Post
    Super Goats.
    Why?


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  4. #4
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    Nocta is new school but pretty stable for 2000 g in a 190. OG spur is very versatile big mtn. Maybe OG lotus 120


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    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


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  5. #5
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    Pow ski question

    Because they are mashup of what you seem to be after.
    Damp, check.
    Float, check.
    Pivot easily, check.
    Haul ass without hesitation or issue, check.
    Have pop, sorta.
    Carve soft snow, yep.
    Stomp landings, duh.
    Super, absolutely.
    I was going to buy a pair but then the Lhasa was being resurrected and I love that ski. Had mine built to go toe to toe with the Superís. They are really close in a slightly different way. Speaking of which, if you can find a pair of the Lhasa, thought I saw some in GS recently with a perfect build for you, stiffs, buy them.
    Last edited by 2FUNKY; 11-09-2020 at 10:01 PM.

  6. #6
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    Have the Praxis Q, Super Goat and 196 Bodes (Bodes being my favorite) but to me they each have a unique personality... I would not part with any of them but like you said about your BMX 115s all 3 rock but for me lack in some areas... I travel a lot for work and when I pack skis I pick those that just get it done for me regardless of conditions and terrain... Sub 110 my 189 108 Wrens always make it in my travel bag and now my 192 Rustler 11s join them... They can rip and I just have not found a weakness... Absolutely love them and was turned on to them thanks to this board...

    Another one to look at that surprised the shit out of me was the 194 Black Crowa Anima... Never even considered them but my buddy bought a pair and he let me give them a shot... Another ski that for me just kicked ass...


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  7. #7
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    While this is over your 115mm requirement, I have been very impressed with my Black Ops 118.

    Super heavy, but not overly stiff, so doesn't get bounced around when nuking through chop, and its fairly soft when coming off of flat landings.

    Really good float, but has quite a bit of camber underfoot so its really fun to get on edge when you're hitting groomers on the way back to the lift.

    Recommended mount is also fairly progressive, so its perceived weight while in the air isn't crazy either.

    I would say here in the PNW its an almost perfect daily driver.

    I've got mine mounted -2cm from rec which is -4.4cm back from center (Blister Rec).

    In comparison:
    I've got a pair of JJ 2.0, Supernatural 100s, and Kye 110s - The only thing the BO118 does worse than any of those is touring (obviously), and it's less surfy than the JJs which I really enjoy with that ski, but I like going faster anyway...
    "Poop is funny" - Frank Reynolds

  8. #8
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    I too am on the quest. Still haven't found "it" yet.

    The mfree118 is pretty close for me but maybe a little too short and maybe a tad too much tip taper. Wish there was a 193.

    The billygoats was it in coastal snow but I'm less fanboi in dry&light.

    Super Goat is just extra billygoat.

    I really liked 2f's heavy hitter praxis lhasa fat. The normal layup version I tried was less exciting.

    Billygoat & lhasa are less interesting than they used to be, as I've lost the taste for pintail skis.

    The kusala looks cool for a pow ski but a little sketchy on a reverse camber ski for resorts.

    196 bodacious is surprisingly good in pow but it's a lot of ski in the tight stuff. But it's worth trying, it's oddly playful for a 2x metal straight side cut charger. I think the subtle reverse camber plays a big role. Very damp yet very energetic.

    Curious about the new Volkl Revolt 121 as it says a lot when ALL their athletes seem to be skiing it, including the directional dudes.

    Mfree108 is a fantastic ski, might end up on it a lot in pow if it's not bottomless bottomless. Had a few great pow days on it last spring. Wish the the mfree118 was just the mfree108 10mm fatter.

    The pescado is super fun but might not be enough ski for jackson variable gnar.

  9. #9
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    I skied the 196 Bodes and am not man enough, and I can admit that. The BMX 115 did everything the Bodes did but also had the ability to not have to charge Mach 39583 every turn.

    The BO 118 skies really short and I hate that.

    2Funky, Iíll give up damp and boring if they are fun to ski. I used to rely on damp skis to get around at speed, but have learned now to not rely on the ski. Iíve only heard good things about the Lhasaís, so Iíll read up on them.

    Have the OG Spurs, another ski that needs to go Mach nutty in large open spaces. They havenít had bindings on them for a few years for a reason.

    Skied am older Lotus 120 and it was boring. Felt like an old dad ski.

    Maybe the Anima or the R11 is the ski. Iíd need to give the R11 another shot, only took a run or two on a fairly dead pair and didnít like it, but they were pretty trashed.

    What about the Commander 118 or Commander 124? The new Line Vision 118?


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  10. #10
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    Maybe try something different? Like Line Pescado?

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  11. #11
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    Spur is on my list to try, almost bought a pair a few years back. Maybe I should grab yours, pretty sure we both have a pivot fetish and are the same bsl.

    Funny, I found bodacious to be really easy to ski considering the legendary status. Personally easier and more fun than the supergoat.

    I don't like the feel of on3p on hard pack. It's a different kind of damp and I'm not sure I'm in love with it. But damn those skis are great in coastal garbage.

    Have you ever tried the 4FRNT EHP? That's a great ski, one that I want to revisit sometime soon.

  12. #12
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    Probably wouldn't be my choice for a place like jackson with big terrain, especially knowing skibrd is a bigger heavier taller stronger dude. It's a fun ski but it makes small terrain big.

  13. #13
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    Pow ski question

    They are gone.

  14. #14
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    I think I had my green XT Lange free tours on when I skied the Bodacious, and that combo didnít work. Yet again I dumped them before I tried the other boots. Might of been better in my Heads, but I switch back and forth depending on the day, that itís hard to have a pair of skis thatís only good with one pair of boots. If that makes sense? The Head Raptors 140RS are just in a league of their own and maybe I just need to stop skiing the XT Frees off the resort.

    We can figure out something for the Spurs. I was thinking of putting a tech binding on them to tour on, but itís easier to send them your way.

    Yeah, Line Pescado seem like they wouldnít work. To soft in the tip and tail. I am 6-3 220...

    That ON3P feel on hard pack scares me, I really donít like it. Thatís why I havenít liked other ON3Ps I tried.

    I havenít tried the EHP, or the Armada Declavity. Maybe Iíll keep an eye out for both of those.


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  15. #15
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    You definitely should try to ride some Bodes again but leave the green XTs at home when you do. I have a pair of the Protour XTs and I find they make big skis feel vague when transitioning edge to edge. I don't think those boots are laterally stiff enough to push big heavy skis around while skiing mach looney.

    Super Goats are a rad ski but they definitely have a more dead/damp feeling than the Bodes. IMO the SGs are the best inbound powder ski I've found. They are great in pow and they demolish chop/crud. Ski them with a two footed approach and they absolutely rip. Their major shortcoming is their hard snow performance. They can hold an edge but if you over pressure the tips the tails wash out and suddenly you find yourself skiing switch to the road. Granted it takes significant amounts of tip pressure to do this but it can happen.

    IMO the Bodes are almost (but not quite) as good as the SGs in pow. They're a little less impressive in chop as well. Overall I think they are a bit more work to ski than the SGs. But man oh man they can hold an edge and rip those last few turns back to the lift on hard snow. Carving on them is a blast!

  16. #16
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    I don't think the declivity is the ski you are looking for. Tail is too locked in and it doesn't feel like a very big ski. It's also pretty stiff and demanding, you sort of need to be "on". The 195 tracer is pretty easy to ski and awesome in pow, but it's somewhat delicate in build like the mind bender 116c. It does do better in chop though, at least the older version that weighed 2300g'ish per pair.

    Commander 124 has a round "soft" flex, closer to a JJ, might not be your cup of tea either. Nocta also too soft and will feel really short for you at 6,3.

    Commander 118, 194 is supposed to be a hell of a lot of ski, but it's a lot lighter than the 196 bodacious so maybe it would be a good fit. Doesn't seem super pow surfy tho. Based on what you say about other skis, I don't think this would be the right fit. I'll let you know how I like the pair I picked up on gear swap in a few months.

    Kind of a rare find, but the older jaguar shark might be something you'd like, it's has a somewhat softer flexing shovel, but is still a great all around shape that would work well for a lot of things.

    Revolt 121 mounted -5 from true center could also be a good option, again might feel a little short for you, but if you like the length of the JJ it might be fine too.

    Rustler is also a good choice if you like it, I find it a bit too carve'y without enough ompuf' to really blast chop, making my legs more tired keeping the skis under control. How about the Nomad 115? Have you skied Leeper's pairs?

    As others have said the Lhasa is sick, but hard to find and you would definitely want to be on a 4/5 flex pair. I have the heavy hitter since I'm not a big fan of keiths enduro core, but you have experience with that so you would know what you want.

    Another ski that is not talked about a lot on here is the Prior overlord. This ski rips hardpack for being a big wide ski and surfs pow really well. Sort of like a billygoat/bibby mix, but a bit more work. And with the canadian pesos they wouldn't be that expensive for you either. Bry on here is a big fan, as is Vitamin I.

  17. #17
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    Pow ski question

    Thanks Me Pretzel and Kopi Red.

    Iíll see about giving the Bodacious another shot with the real boots. Iíve had a few skis that Iíve tried with the XT Free Pros and havenít liked the skis at all. Bodacious, Like Vision 108, Dynastar M108 are a few. More and more I think itís the boot and liner combo. I tried Power Wraps in them, that was a disaster. Pro tours are better, just have to slow down a bit. Best combo was an old pair of cork Lange RS 140 liners, they almost felt normal, but tour like crap. All a trade off.

    If a pair of Super Goats shows up FS Iíll try to jump on them. Thanks for the advice.

    Good to know to stay away from the Moments and other Armadas. I havenít been on Owenís Nomad 115s because my boots are too small. I have small feet. I think we are 2 shell sizes different. Bootsie was trying to get him to go down another shell size, Iíll ask him about it. The 115 is also not even close to a 191cm ski. It measures really really short, and when next to my 192/3s, they seem even shorter.

    I havenít had much luck with the Enduro core from Keith. My Protests will make 5/5 of Praxis that I tried, didnít love, and am selling/sold. Ironically enough the first pair of Protests that were Swiss cheese and of unknown core/flex were the best. Maybe I can get the guy I sold them to to trade for my pair.

    I was reading up on the Prior Overlord a bit. Seems interesting.

    Interesting you compare it to the Bibby, another of the ďITĒ pow skis with a following I havenít tried yet. Maybe this is the year.

    Iím going to poke around to see if I can find a pair of Revolt 121s. I forget it existed tbh. That seems more up my ally with shape and mount point.

    Thanks guys!






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  18. #18
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    You are a big dude right? I have a nocta. Just got it in the mail so I havenít skied it but my .02 is that it flexes soft. Iím not that big 5í11, 175 but I ski very very powerful. And I donít get the impression itís going to be super lively. A lot of the reviews I read was that it gets tossed in chop. I bought it for early days at the resort before it gets whooped and then to go play in the woods because it will pivot and float.

    Took me two months to pull the trigger on something this fat range. I was stuck between the rustler 11, the new anima, and the nocta. I also couldnít decide between the 185 or the long version in each.

    I realized for me that the anima just wasnít going to be used enough. I had the old one. And I liked it. The tails were a little soft if you got back and it would feel they were lost at a slow speed. The new one claims to fix all of those problems and if I was out west at a big resort that would be my DD.

    The rustler I wanted in a 192 because everyone says the ski is better then the 185. I donít know. But the rustler felt as if it was too close in size to my atris and I didnít want the short rustler.

    I got the 185 nocta and my assumption is that I will ski it very little but for the times that I want it Iíll have it. But I am a reverse camber whore and can find in the energy in a 2x4 if I have to.

    I ski either a Corvus or a Cochise 80% of the time. Iím more of a through then over guy. But I have an atris for those days I want to be a Mexican jumping bean. The nocta flexes similar in softness to the atris.


    Sounds like you want the new 194 anima.


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  19. #19
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    Pow skis just boils down to what shape you want at mount point and how you want to drive the skis, or if you want a pow specific shape or a wider am ski that does well in deeper snow (aka difference between say Noctas and Animas).

    BG/C&Ds are great if you ski from a centered stance and want to be able to shut down speed effortlessly. BGs crushes variable, while C&Ds slay pow with aplomb. Both are super loose and a pure joy to ski in all forms of soft snow. Neither are good options if you like to drive through your tips aggressively - the tails will wash out. I guess the same goes for SuperGoats, in spite of the tails having slightly less splay, them being slightly wider and stiffer. Dynastar M-Free 118s seems like a ski that kinda bridges the gap between BGs and C&Ds a bit while loosing a bit of performance in variable, but also does better on harder surfaces.

    Revolt121s are super interesting, especially mounted two centimeters behind recommended for us more directional peeps. Their flex pattern of stiffer front part and softer mid/aft part together with deep rocker lines and tons of splay should make them a lot more versatile than their -3 mount point suggests, at least for riders who prefer to ski from a bit more centered stance, while still slaying pow with aplomb (in deep snow they will probably ski more or less like a reverse camber ski). I will probably pick up a pair.

    I am guessing that 190 Wildcats and 194 Animas are somewhat similar - playful skis that also chargers well. I would perhaps opt for the Wildcat of the two due to their slightly narrower shovels, longer sidecut radius and proven design. The BCs are too expensive for their construction too imho, but oh well marketing eh. Rustler11s should be a tad bit more directional than either, but still fairly loose and easy to pivot. They are not terribly heavy no, but skis surprisingly well across a lof of conditions - I really, really like them - though I have not tried the big boy size.

    For Noctas - the general consensus is to go up in length. I have not tried them, but lots of folks seem to enjoy them for playing around in pow. Def not the ski to get if you want to rage through variable though - though they probably do that tolerably well for their weight/shape.

    Last but not least, have you considered DPS Koala119s in 190? They ski somewhat like a more centered BG, but have more support in the tails. They are super loose and easy to ski in soft snow, they crush variable and I think they will be strong on edge for heavier / stronger riders on harder snow. You can def get on the shovels, at least more so than BGs. I really liked my pair of 184s, but sold them since I figured their overall stiffness would make them more of a chore in anything but soft for me being a smaller dude at 175cm/65kg w/o gear. I am not positive that that was the right call, but too late now Yeah, they are DPSs, but still - they rip.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by skibrd View Post

    That ON3P feel on hard pack scares me, I really don’t like it. That’s why I haven’t liked other ON3Ps I tried.
    Out of curiosity, how many unhinged, insulting PM's have you gotten from ON3P fanbois after posting this? That crew gets riled up so easily if you mention that they make mediocre skis.
    I remember a bottomless freedom...

  21. #21
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    Mar 2009
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    You should pick up the Head Carlos Shorty J posted in altacoup's for sale thread.
    Best bigger dude 125(146-125-135) uf ski out there(as far as versatility,imo). No pintail. No tip taper, just a long straight forbody and long mellow tip rocker. Layem over and you can engage the full edge. Slight tail rocker( really just and upturned tail) that is way easy to release but has plenty of backbone. GOATS!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Out of curiosity, how many unhinged, insulting PM's have you gotten from ON3P fanbois after posting this? That crew gets riled up so easily if you mention that they make mediocre skis.
    Well glade, he is wrong in general, but if that's what he feels man, that's what he feels.
    My On3ps rail hardpack. Definitely not mediocre.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Out of curiosity, how many unhinged, insulting PM's have you gotten from ON3P fanbois after posting this? That crew gets riled up so easily if you mention that they make mediocre skis.
    if you want to be a jerk about how you make your point (like you were the last time you made this point in the ON3P thread and are again above) the reaction by said fonbois does not prove your point - is just mean you succeed at being a jerk, and people unfortunately acting in the same manner back. Going from "this holds true for me" and mistaking that for "thus it must be true for everybody" doesn't make it right, especially when conveyed from a pov of "you idiots haven't understood this yet".

    I do not care if people like or do not like something, but I find it insightful when people can explain why they find something to be a specific way - especially give the added context of type of skier, preferences and terrain.

    For instance - the question that was being debated at that time (since it is relevant for this thread): woods116s performance being off due to tune - has not changed my mind so far that Koala119s are probably a better match for how I ski than woods116s. The reason? The flex pattern. I think I prefer a stiffer front part of the ski and a more flexible aft. K119s are stiffer up front than in the rear, woods116s are a bit softer up front and stiffer in the rear (rear=right behind the bindings). But, I will give the woods116s a tune and try them a bit more - then make the call. I will also try them in different resorts and terrain, as that obviously makes a huge difference. I will also provide the context - aka mediocre skier in snow rich resorts that is on the smaller and lighter side of things.

    In the same vein, it is like BGs are made specifically for one of my two home resorts, while being crap in parts of the other (lots of somewhat poorly groomed, refrozen, back to lift traverses/groomers). That does not make BGs crap or perfect - it just means that one has to pick the right tool for the job, accoriding to ones needs, wishes and desires. In the other resort a different ski is just better, hence my trying Woods116s and Koala119s

  24. #24
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    15 pairs? Do what you want. It seems like a lot of ya'll enjoy the equipment quest. Its like just an opinion man but maybe consider a different quest. Simplify the quiver and just resist the shoulda woulda coulda about your chosen equipment for a given day.

    Why? Because you might find it more fun. You get to talk about chicks and parties and farts and make fun of people skiing under the lift instead of mount points and lense choices and next years gear.

    I mean how do you even get out of the house in the morning? The decision matrix must be brutal. You about need a Cray Supercomputer to figure out what socks to wear. And then what happens when the inputs change?

    I mean if the pick your 22F ambient 4" new 10% density ski Tram Laps with Bobby set up but on the way to the hill Bobby flakes and Hottie Hanna calls and wants to go ski Granite but the sun comes out, its 27F the wind filled it in to 8" of cream cheese, what do you do?

  25. #25
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    My 188 rustler 11 seems like a slightly mellower spur but more all mountain which is what I was after. I am a billy goat fan boy and they crush. They were my go to along with a Lhasa fat. But I am older now and 186-190 is tops unless itís 4 feet. I would demo rustler 11 in 192. It looks like a great DD and flex on my 188 is pretty stout. It does measure 186 so 192 is a 190. I weigh 190 ish so it works. Iím not convinced there is one ski to rule them all. Love my 18 pairs.


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    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16, 24, 32

    2020/2021 (20/24)

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