Pow ski question

[kid-kapow]

The Koala is interesting and I get they sent a traditional DPS dentist ski, but my slightly bias against Doctor Performance Skis will probably keep me off them. Maybe I need to get over myself there.

I think it’s a coin flip between then Nocta and the Revolt 121 at this point.

Revolts will be fine if you are fine with a softer flex, if not a Rossi BO Gamer or DPS Koala119 mounted back could be the ticket to bliss town. Yeah, DPS kinda sucks, but as much as I am loath to admit it their K119s seriously impressed me. I would imagine them being a lot looser than Black Op 118s though, like a lot.

I do think R121s are a terrific, playful pow ski. I do not think they will charge all that hard, but they should be very easy to ski just about anything, while somewhat accepting of being driven. Again, their flex profile of a stiffer, but still seriously splayed out front ski with a softer rear is very, very intriguing to me.

R11s are not so much a pow ski as a capable freeride ski. I would nix them from the current cream of the crop pow ski discussion - they ain't it.

And yeah, if you like to drive your pow skis BGs (especially) and C&Ds are not for you. They are mindnumbingly amazing at being loose and easy to ski when driven from a centered stance, but are also borderline crap if driven hard - and (BGs) absolutely useless on firm (meaning ice).- at least my pair is. I dunno - my take on BGs is that it is my preferred ski to ski fast in soft snow in areas I do not know, while being pretty far from preferred if I want to drive the skis I am on. As stated, I have completely stopped using them in one resort due to them being terrible in the lower third of the mountain (I got out skied by a guy on BMT90s while manically laughing out loud for every turn because I thought I was about to crash and burn).

15 pairs? Do what you want. It seems like a lot of ya'll enjoy the equipment quest. Its like just an opinion man but maybe consider a different quest. Simplify the quiver and just resist the shoulda woulda coulda about your chosen equipment for a given day.

Why? Because you might find it more fun. You get to talk about chicks and parties and farts and make fun of people skiing under the lift instead of mount points and lense choices and next years gear.

I mean how do you even get out of the house in the morning? The decision matrix must be brutal. You about need a Cray Supercomputer to figure out what socks to wear. And then what happens when the inputs change?

I mean if the pick your 22F ambient 4" new 10% density ski Tram Laps with Bobby set up but on the way to the hill Bobby flakes and Hottie Hanna calls and wants to go ski Granite but the sun comes out, its 27F the wind filled it in to 8" of cream cheese, what do you do?

As hard as this is to believe, my quiver is bulit around a three ski quiver philosophy - hard snow, daily driver, pow - then replicated across three quite different resorts as well as touring - so I somewhat agree with your points. I am actively trying to negate/minimize the "what if I had been on that ski today" feeling, while also currently being open to differentiating between resorts. As I have some major investments incoming wrt my house a merger might be incoming. Quiver hunting/optimizing is fun though, and probably one of my major past times.

[skibrd]

Revolts will be fine if you are fine with a softer flex, if not a Rossi BO Gamer or DPS Koala119 mounted back could be the ticket to bliss town. Yeah, DPS kinda sucks, but as much as I am loath to admit it their K119s seriously impressed me. I would imagine them being a lot looser than Black Op 118s though, like a lot.

I do think R121s are a terrific, playful pow ski. I do not think they will charge all that hard, but they should be very easy to ski just about anything, while somewhat accepting of being driven. Again, their flex profile of a stiffer, but still seriously splayed out front ski with a softer rear is very, very intriguing to me.

R11s are not so much a pow ski as a capable freeride ski. I would nix them from the current cream of the crop pow ski discussion - they ain't it.

And yeah, if you like to drive your pow skis BGs (especially) and C&Ds are not for you. They are mindnumbingly amazing at being loose and easy to ski when driven from a centered stance, but are also borderline crap if driven hard - and (BGs) absolutely useless on firm (meaning ice).- at least my pair is. I dunno - my take on BGs is that it is my preferred ski to ski fast in soft snow in areas I do not know, while being pretty far from preferred if I want to drive the skis I am on. As stated, I have completely stopped using them in one resort due to them being terrible in the lower third of the mountain (I got out skied by a guy on BMT90s while manically laughing out loud for every turn because I thought I was about to crash and burn).



As hard as this is to believe, my quiver is bulit around a three ski quiver philosophy - hard snow, daily driver, pow - then replicated across three quite different resorts as well as touring - so I somewhat agree with your points. I am actively trying to negate/minimize the "what if I had been on that ski today" feeling, while also currently being open to differentiating between resorts. As I have some major investments incoming wrt my house a merger might be incoming. Quiver hunting/optimizing is fun though, and probably one of my major past times.

Thanks. The R11 is be more of a soft daily driver for me. I have friends who use it as a pow ski, and it isn’t. I had pretty much written off the ON3P pow skis, and your description seals the deal.

I haven’t really considered the BO118 because it’s longest length is 186. If it came in a 19X, it would be at the top of the list, based on what everyone here and on Blister says about it. I’ll see if I can hop on the K119s for day. I’ve heard it’s not a traditional DPS.

I wish there was more info on the R121, Nocta, and Moment Chipotle Banana. All three sound great, but what marketing blurb doesn’t make a ski sound like it will turn you into Cody, Ian, or Candide. Some of us have been lucky enough to follow those level guys around for a day, and it isn’t the skis that makes them so good.


Quiver building is a hobby. Buying and selling skis is a hobby. It keeps me busy, and I like it. I try to keep to around 10 pairs of skis (not including hording of favorites like 194 MX98s and 193 Shiros), sometimes it’s more, rarely it’s less, but it’s not making me go bankrupt and of all the bad habits you can have, it’s not a bad one.


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[kid-kapow]

I do not mean to sound all negative wrt BGs and C&Ds - the praise they receive is well deserved. They are really great skis for the right skier and the right terrain. They are not meant to be driven through the shovels though, and what they loose in that regard is what makes them so incredibly nimble and easy to pivot regardless of speed. So it just boils down to the right tool for the job.

I would imagine CBs being the more capable (being able to rage) ski of the three you mention - though I have been on none of them. I have yet to see anybody be dissatisfied with either ski though, so you probably can't go wrong with either.

I am still trying to talk myself out of R121s though.

[skibrd]

I do not mean to sound all negative wrt BGs and C&Ds - the praise they receive is well deserved. They are really great skis for the right skier and the right terrain. They are not meant to be driven through the shovels though, and what they loose in that regard is what makes them so incredibly nimble and easy to pivot regardless of speed. So it just boils down to the right tool for the job.

I would imagine CBs being the more capable (being able to rage) ski of the three you mention - though I have been on none of them. I have yet to see anybody be dissatisfied with either ski though, so you probably can't go wrong with either.

I am still trying to talk myself out of R121s though.

I think every ski has a time and place for someone. Just look in the ON3P thread, or at my roommates quiver, and you’ll find people who think the CD and BG are great. They are not the tool we are looking for. I’m sure I’d have a blast skiing either in the right conditions.

Can’t go wrong with either sounds like the quickest way to get to buying more pow skis instead of getting the quiver down a few pairs, ha! This thread has helped me though. I need to see how I get along with the Black Ops Sender Squads, then go from there. If they punch above their width class, I can clear out most (probably keep a pair of Shiros and the MB116C to tour on) of the 115-120 wide skis, and get the CB or R121.

Can I get home and get skiing yet, please?


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[Quandary]

I am with Kid-kapow as a soft snow, pow ski the BG is the best I have ever been on. But like K-k put them on my feet on firm snow and they scare the hell out of me. I just can't figure them out on firm snow. So the ski definitely has limited application for me. But when it snows, they sing a really sweet song!

[SupreChicken]

I am with Kid-kapow as a soft snow, pow ski the BG is the best I have ever been on. But like K-k put them on my feet on firm snow and they scare the hell out of me. I just can't figure them out on firm snow. So the ski definitely has limited application for me. But when it snows, they sing a really sweet song!

You just kind of drift or carve gently. Driving the tips on firm snow will result in them fighting you.

Unequaled in soft snow for me.

For versatility for a guy your size, I think (haven’t ridden it yet, though) the revolt 121 is the move. If Ian Mac is happy on them, they likely will work for you.

And it’s totally ok not to like on3p’s offerings here. It’s not sacrilege or bad mouthing them. They (more than most others) welcome feedback.

If the hard snow performance is part of the decision, an RES ski doesn’t really belong in the conversation.

[2FUNKY]

My 191 BG’s carved just fine. Tip them and stand on them, don’t press the tips, let the side cut work. Great ski in coastal pow, less dense, dryer interior snow there are much better pow skis. Have not skied the newer 189 so I may be talking out my ass in regards to that ski. The 191 does kill it in chopped up interior type snow. Replaced them with a better ski for where I ski.

[Spooky]

Thanks. The R11 is be more of a soft daily driver for me. I have friends who use it as a pow ski, and it isn’t.

That a 114-waisted, rockered ski is not considered a proper pow ski nowadays really just drives home how spoiled for choice we are when it comes to current ski design.

[DarthMarkus]

I think it's important to remember that the Rustler 11 increases in waist width the larger you go on it - for me it makes a capable pow ski, but I'm also not skiing in Utah all that much - a powder ski can be relative to where you're skiing. Either way, 116 on the 192 R11 is a big enough powder ski for most of my purposes.

I would also put the M-Free 118 as a good choice too. I would also reiterate that I wish the sizing options were the same as the 108. 189cm is smaller than I would prefer at 6'1." I think this also applies to the Spur. I actually liked the previous 192cm option better than the current iteration @189. I think its shape and flex pattern was also better for a 125mm waisted ski. If the M-free 118 wasn't so close to the spur, or if I lived somewhere with more snow, I would have kept mine.

All that being said, the low tip splay, minimal tip taper, but significant rocker profile on the M-free 118 still makes it a very capable pow ski and it skis longer than a lot of other pow skis in the same size. I think I'm also a bigger advocate for getting a longer ski rather than a wider ski for my powder skis - I find that going above 120mm is usually more width than I'd prefer; I think having short, narrow feet may play a factor in not wanting wider skis.

[kid-kapow]

That a 114-waisted, rockered ski is not considered a proper pow ski nowadays really just drives home how spoiled for choice we are when it comes to current ski design.

Sorry if I added confusion here - should have been pow-SPECIFIC-ski R11s are way more versatile than being labeled as a pow ski imho, though they slay pow fine - just not as well as some pow specific shapes out there. Then again they slay groomers, so no real loss - just a different tool imho. Again, I have not been on the big boii 192 size

I would also reiterate that I wish the sizing options were the same as the 108. (regarding M-Free 118 skis)

word.

And regarding BGs, yeah they do softer groomers just fine - if not terribly inspiring. Supre nails them imho.

[skibrd]

I’d be really happy on the R11 inbounds all day on a deep pow day. It would be fine for the first few untouched runs, the great as the snow gets cut up and skies out. What I kid-kapow and a lot of the other guys on here realize is I don’t spend much time past the first run or two inbounds on a pow day. Why? This is the way...


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[lrn2swim]

What? Are you saying the Quixote's camber can both increase and decrease over time? Like it increases some days, yet decreases on other days??? Like its camber varies with temperature? Or do you just keep permanently bending it towards less and less camber with every big impact? Or what?

.

Bump for an answer to this question by V.

Very curious as to what's up

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[TahoeJ]

I wish there was more info on the R121, Nocta, and Moment Chipotle Banana.

I have a ton of days on the Nocta. What do you want to know?

I currently have two pairs of powder skis. Nocta when I want to feel surfy and playful (they are the absolute perfect ski for the trees of Japan), and then Moment Wildcats when I want to charge (I'll be taking these to Alaska in March).

[Caucasian Asian]

You said that the 196 Bodacious was too much for you, but did you try the 193?
I ski the OG 186 every day, but picked up a pair of the 193s as a pow ski. But then again I'm not as tall or heavy as you.

[skibrd]

TahoeJ, I was wondering how the Nocta skied. No worries though, I went with Chipotle Bananas and am super happy.

Caucasian Asian, I went back and looked at my ski/boot/liner combo from last year and a few of the skis I didn’t like, I was in my Lange XT Free Pros and an old Intuition Power Wrap liner for all the skis I didn’t like. I think I didn’t have enough power to drive the 196 Bodacious. Same story with the Line Vision 108s, tried them with a stiffer liner and loved them.

Also, the 196 and 186 are very different skis then the 193. I would like to give the 193 a shot, but the directional charger pow ski slot is currently owned by my Kaestle BMX 115, and it’s going to take something VERY special to remove that ski from its spot.


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[galibier_numero_un]

What? Are you saying the Quixote's camber can both increase and decrease over time? Like it increases some days, yet decreases on other days??? Like its camber varies with temperature? Or do you just keep permanently bending it towards less and less camber with every big impact? Or what?

My 182/Enduro/Carbon/Veneer/flex #4 Quixotes behaved the same as other Praxis skis with the same, or a very similar layup: flex #4, MAP or Enduro for all of them, with various combinations of carbon/no-carbon, and either nylon or veneer tops.

IOW, I don't notice any camber change.

Now, @Skibird has six inches and 65 pounds on me (I'm 5' 9" / 165#) and I'm not a candidate for the current thread on people whose body is falling apart at 40 because of too many crashes. IOW, air is incidental (and small) and it's more about finesse than aggression . I just turned 70 (I ski with folks from 10-30 years younger than me), and the plan is to enjoy this sport (and others) until the climate turns off the taps ;-)

Advice to @Skibird: pick one ski, pack all of the other ones up and prepare them for sale. Ski that one ski and decide if its pluses/minuses are something you could live with. The packing up step is important. It clears your mind and helps free you of seller's remorse in advance. You can always pack/unpack as necessary. I should have followed this strategy before selling my first pair of Billy Goats ;-)

... Thom

[skibrd]

My 182/Enduro/Carbon/Veneer/flex #4 Quixotes behaved the same as other Praxis skis with the same, or a very similar layup: flex #4, MAP or Enduro for all of them, with various combinations of carbon/no-carbon, and either nylon or veneer tops.

IOW, I don't notice any camber change.

Now, @Skibird has six inches and 65 pounds on me (I'm 5' 9" / 165#) and I'm not a candidate for the current thread on people whose body is falling apart at 40 because of too many crashes. IOW, air is incidental (and small) and it's more about finesse than aggression . I just turned 70 (I ski with folks from 10-30 years younger than me), and the plan is to enjoy this sport (and others) until the climate turns off the taps ;-)

Advice to @Skibird: pick one ski, pack all of the other ones up and prepare them for sale. Ski that one ski and decide if its pluses/minuses are something you could live with. The packing up step is important. It clears your mind and helps free you of seller's remorse in advance. You can always pack/unpack as necessary. I should have followed this strategy before selling my first pair of Billy Goats ;-)

... Thom

Thom,

That’s sort of been my plan. Try something until I don’t like it, then go back to Shiros and be happy. The Moment Chipotle Banana is close, so I’m sticking with them.


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[Lord Thomas]

How about some more info on the Chip Bnna? How does it compare to the others you've skied? I've got high intrigue about that ski.

[galibier_numero_un]

Thom,

That’s sort of been my plan. Try something until I don’t like it, then go back to Shiros and be happy. The Moment Chipotle Banana is close, so I’m sticking with them.


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Yup, I find I have to play mind games with myself to stay in control of the situation, because apart from their utility, I consider skis to be objects of beauty and a creative expression of their designer.

I'm extremely good at not being a hoarder in general (the "one in, one out" rule), but I really have to watch myself when it comes to skis ;-)

... Thom

[skibrd]

I don’t have the same self control, but I’m also 36 and have lot to learn about everything still...

LT, they just ski easy. They ski like the Shiro, but with out the crazy wide tip. They are fairly stiff, feel good in bottomless, but also get between the bottomless sections just fine. The tip stays above the snow as a 122mm wide pow ski should. They are definitely a fun pow ski, and could do double duty as a charging pow ski too, but their niche is definitely wiggling around in deep snow. I’d have no issue grabbing them to ski anything soft, no matter the angle.

I recommend getting a pair.


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[WhetherMan]

skibrd, can you lay down any thoughts on how the sender squads compare with the bmx 115s?

After one day on a pair of 194 animas (previous version) I'm liking them more than I thought I would. Hand flex notably softer than 190 bibby and 196 governer, but stability seems promising. Can't really say much until more snow opens more terrain here. Had fun popping off of every side hit like I was part of the grom squad. Not necessarily how I normally ski. Tails might lack a little support on landings, we'll see.

[skibrd]

skibrd, can you lay down any thoughts on how the sender squads compare with the bmx 115s?

After one day on a pair of 194 animas (previous version) I'm liking them more than I thought I would. Hand flex notably softer than 190 bibby and 196 governer, but stability seems promising. Can't really say much until more snow opens more terrain here. Had fun popping off of every side hit like I was part of the grom squad. Not necessarily how I normally ski. Tails might lack a little support on landings, we'll see.

Sender Squads are more of a new school charger. The BMX 115 is a traditional soft snow charger. Both have their place, I prefer the traditional charger for big open faces. The Sender Squads are more versatile for lower snow days, I can ski them inbounds on a pow day where it’s bumped out and not just pow everywhere. The BMX 115s need powder, they are awesome when it’s soft, and survive the rest, and don’t like hard.

The difference is how they go about what they do. A different mentality of doing them same thing. You can see how different the mount point is. I did move the bindings on the Sender Squads back 2, but even then they are more forward then the 115s.



The Sender Squads are also stiff. The whole ski is stiff. The 115s have a stiff tail, but the front of the ski does soften up as you get closer to the tip. Neither ski is soft, just the flex of the 115s works better for me.

I like both, I just need to get rid of skis, and they over lap too much, and I just prefer the 115s. They ski like a fat MX98, my all time favorite ski.


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[WhetherMan]

Thanks. Didn't realize the squads were such a forward mount. I have to figure out if I'm going to like my woodsman 108s before i buy more skis. I guess.

[skibrd]

Thanks. Didn't realize the squads were such a forward mount. I have to figure out if I'm going to like my woodsman 108s before i buy more skis. I guess.

My roommate has woodsman 108s, I skied them, I’d keep the Sender Squads if the choice was W108s or SS. But, my dislike of everything ON3P is well documented.

I’m torn on selling/keeping the Sender Squads. I was hoping the Rustler 10 would be a low snow ON adventure ski, but it’s quickly proving to not be enough ski for me. I can justify keeping the Sender Squads, but the quiver is getting a bit big and it would be nice to get it down a bit.


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[mr_pretzel]

That sender squad mount is so far forward, now I want a pair hehe