Steamboat Powdercats can kindly go fuck themselves

[doebedoe]

https://coloradosun.com/2020/11/09/s...-buffalo-pass/

tl;dr -- Cat operator thinks beta about skiing and snowmobiling in a National Forest are their trade secrets.

That is all.

[Harry]

Speaking as someone who successfully defended myself against a Non-Compete lawsuit from a former employer, at least under Montana law, this lawsuit stands zero chance of being successful. IANAL and am clueless about Colorado laws though.


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[Foggy_Goggles]

Uh...its not quite that simple. RIP Jupiter Jones. My people familiar with the involved parties say, "assholes fighting with assholes". Too many people with too much time and money and not enough powder. Everyone selling out everyone else and lawyering up to fight for "their" piece of the pie. Nobody wants the beta dropped on their home spot but everyone crawls the web for beta on the places they visit.

[altasnob]

Ya, that lawsuit should get dismissed in record time.

The article implies Andy Sovick wrote guides for areas in Washington. While Beacon Guidebooks, the guidebook publisher has published guides for Washington, those were written by Matt Schonwald.

One can debate the ethics of exposing areas with a backcountry guide but there is nothing, legally, anyone can do to stop it. I posted TRs on Crystal backcountry 15 years ago on TGR but on second thought, deleted those because I knew it would just increase traffic to the area. Now there is a guidebook on the area. I wouldn't personally publish a guidebook on any area but if someone wants to do it, that's there prerogative.

Here's all the areas this guidebook publisher has "exposed:"

https://beaconguidebooks.com/product...ki-guidebooks/

[Foggy_Goggles]

"Just because you are legally right, doesn't mean you are not an asshole". I'm not sure why anyone would think operating a snowcat outfit in an area with legalized snowmobiling is a good idea. Ask Berthoud Powder Cats or Powder Addiction how that went down? Sorry not sorry.

[altasnob]

I'm not sure why anyone would think operating a snowcat outfit in an area with legalized snowmobiling is a good idea.

If this is your position, then you just declared all snowcat opps in the entire US a bad idea. Snowcat ops can't operate in wilderness, so they are limited to National Forests. Most National Forest are open to snowmobiling, unless the National Forest is a wilderness area (I personally can't think of any non-wilderness, non-national park/monument where snowmobiles are not allowed). The only place where one can have a sno cat opp that is not open to snowmobile would be private land. Not much private land in US with good skiing.

[raisingarizona13]

Yeah f those guys.

It must be quite the privilege to have such problems. A lot of people are struggling to keep the lights on and their bellies full and these folks are going to go to court over powder ski runs.

I like how they made a comment that "they (Powdercats) are willing to work with Bass but he has not contacted them on his guidebook" as if he needs to. They don't have any power to make calls like that.....F them hard.

Things have changed a lot since 1983. There sure is a lot more pressure on the bc than ever before.

[hatchgreenchile]

It'S AboUT PuBliC SaFeTy - LOL, sure it is. Right or wrong, we all know it's about protecting their powder resources.
I'm sure their $700 clients are starting the day a little concerned when there's 40+ trucks at the trailhead.
Multiple user groups fighting over the same pie and "hotspotting" both suck.

[raisingarizona13]

Is there a snowmobile rental/guide service in town? That would really grind their gears.

And yeah, the safety card they are pulling is total bs. If anything a guidebook that identifies areas with specific names helps SARS locate people that get into trouble.

It's been a long time but if I remember correctly Buff Pass is a pretty user friendly area compared to a lot of other places in Colorado.

[m2711c]

hey, lawyers need to eat too ya know....

[Foggy_Goggles]

If this is your position, then you just declared all snowcat opps in the entire US a bad idea.

Ok, what is the list of snowcat outfits in the US that are not having their terrain shared but snowmobilers and snowmobile skiers? That's all I'm saying. Not that the snowcats shouldn't be there, simply that it doesn't seem like a great business venture.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Is there a snowmobile rental/guide service in town? That would really grind their gears.

And yeah, the safety card they are pulling is total bs. If anything a guidebook that identifies areas with specific names helps SARS locate people that get into trouble.

It's been a long time but if I remember correctly Buff Pass is a pretty user friendly area compared to a lot of other places in Colorado.

Dude, it is Disney Land...there is probably a Starbucks and a rental shop up there by now. We used to share the terrain with the snowcat outside on our Indy 440s in 1995.

[skaredshtles]

Perhaps we could get a nice guidebook for the east side of Wolf Creek Pass next? The Alamosa library could buy a few copies to have on their shelves for folks coming in looking for info.

[Foggy_Goggles]

https://www.steamboatpilot.com/opini...s-too-popular/

For those that don't know, Steamboat is one of the most popular snowmobiling destination in the USA. The whole town smells like 2 stroke.

[simple]

Fuck that guide is my angle. 2 years as a guide and he is gonna expose all their stashes?

I'm a regular at Buff and we don't touch a lot of their spots. Most regulars don't even move from Buff mtn.

This guide book is gonna fuck shit up. Snowmobile dealership told us 90% of sleds sold this year was to newbies who want to get into the backcountry to ski.

Not often I have to feel like a NIMBY but I do in this case

[Bobcat Sig]

The last person in wants to build the biggest fence...

[raisingarizona13]

Fuck that guide is my angle. 2 years as a guide and he is gonna expose all their stashes?

I'm a regular at Buff and we don't touch a lot of their spots. Most regulars don't even move from Buff mtn.

This guide book is gonna fuck shit up. Snowmobile dealership told us 90% of sleds sold this year was to newbies who want to get into the backcountry to ski.

Not often I have to feel like a NIMBY but I do in this case

I get what you're saying, it's a dick move for sure but legally Powdercats has no right to say that Bass can't.

Things are exploding everywhere. There's too many damn people these days. We actually have it pretty good down here in the Four Corners. It doesn't always snow but when it does there's plenty of elbow room. I can't regularly ski in the more populated and competitive places any longer. It's just too much of a headache.

[hatchgreenchile]

The last person in wants to build the biggest fence...

Powdercats have been operating there for 35+ years.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I get what you're saying, it's a dick move for sure but legally Powdercats has no right to say that Bass can't.

Yeah, but that's not what he said. Not wrong doesn't mean, not an asshole. There has been a long history on snowmobile skiing in that area. Don't mean writing a guide book is a good idea. Good think snowmobiling is kinda hard.

[altasnob]

Good think snowmobiling is kinda hard.

That's the main thing that keeps snowmobiles from overrunning the PNW backcountry ski zones, wilderness designation being the other. Low access roads without snow, thick forests, gnarly terrain. They are legal to go lots of places that people don't bother try taking them. Unfortunately, as more people arrive, their historic reach expands.

[Bobcat Sig]

Powdercats have been operating there for 35+ years.

I think you're missing my point

[Foggy_Goggles]

Fuck that guide is my angle. 2 years as a guide and he is gonna expose all their stashes?

Jordan Lipp much? Its so weird to have dread and anxiety surrounding the crowds everywhere in the backcountry.

[skiracer88_00]

Public land belongs to everyone.

Anyone who tries to claim ownership of or imply exclusive use of public land without an exclusive use permit can go f*ck themselves.

By the way, there are plenty of snow cat operations in the US that don't share terrain with snowmobiles. These are usually tied to ski areas (who are granted with exclusive use permits, or at least exclusive permits for motorized use). Monarch and Ski Cooper come immediately to mind. Loveland will also have one this year or next.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Anyone who tries to claim ownership of or imply exclusive use of public land without an exclusive use permit can go f*ck themselves.

By the way, there are plenty of snow cat operations that don't share terrain with snowmobiles. These are usually tied to ski areas. Monarch and Ski Cooper come immediately to mind. Loveland will also have one this year or next.

You mean like ski areas that operate on public land? I'm on your side but logic matters. So fuck ski areas? I'm confused.

[doebedoe]

Public land belongs to everyone.

Anyone who tries to claim ownership of or imply exclusive use of public land without an exclusive use permit can go f*ck themselves.

By the way, there are plenty of snow cat operations in the US that don't share terrain with snowmobiles. These are usually tied to ski areas (who are granted with exclusive use permits, or at least exclusive permits for motorized use). Monarch and Ski Cooper come immediately to mind. Loveland will also have one this year or next.

None of the permits granted to ski areas are exclusive use. Being the only permitted motorized users and being granted exclusive use is different.

Here's the template for Ski Area permits. https://www.fs.fed.us/r2/recreation/...fs-2700-5b.pdf

When I get my FOIA request for all ski area permits in the Rocky Mountain division filled I'll try to share.