~ ~ SKI THE BIG ONE ~ ~ JACKSON HOLE '20-'21

[rideit]

Haysman, sorry to change subjects, but do you know if they are going to re-open/re-build Sticks and Stonesand Lower Sticks And Stones? By far my favorite descent on the mountain. It’s ‘almost’ Colorado chunk, which we don’t get much of here.

[GravityDT]

Haysman, sorry to change subjects, but do you know if they are going to re-open/re-build Sticks and Stonesand Lower Sticks And Stones? By far my favorite descent on the mountain. It’s ‘almost’ Colorado chunk, which we don’t get much of here.

Hopefully it shouldn’t be a huge undertaking after the massive cleanup from the Logging operation late last fall. But Damn, the skiing in there was a hoot this winter with the new glades... and yes, hands down some of the most funnerest trail


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[AdironRider]

You guys know way more than I do and undoubtedly have more well formed opinions since I'm new to Teton Valley, but apparently skier numbers were not a record this year. I've been told that the crowds at the bottom of the lifts were do to social distancing measures on the lifts.

Skiing at the Ghee doesn't feel crowded while skiing downhill (at least to me). The crowds fan out really far off the top of DC.

The sidecountry and hike to terrain have never, ever felt crowded. With rare exceptions, I didn't see other groups while hiking Peaked and/or skiing sidecountry this year.

IMHO, it would be a major bummer for the places where it is currently possible to get away from crowds to become crowded by way of lifts, "guided access", or the ability to see down into new terrain. There is a lot of largely unknown sidecountry terrain that can be easily looked at from certain proposed new lifts.

I'm a fan of the expansion personally. But Targhee needs to figure out their base area infrastructure to handle the increased load. From there being lines for the shitter each weekend morning to the lack of parking, they need to make some upgrades there. And no, some crappy bus from Ace hardware isn't the solution.

That being said, I never waited more than 15 minutes for a lift at the Ghee this season over 35ish full weekend days, most of them with new snow reported. Yet if you listened to my coworker, the typical NIMBY holier than thou type, it was impossible to park, worse to ski, and lines were hours long, and the expansion wouldn't alleviate these issues, only make them worse, despite doubling the amount of useable lifts. What is it about skiers that make them completely unrealistic about complaints sometimes?

[snapt]

Targhee needs to figure out their base area infrastructure to handle the increased load. From there being lines for the shitter each weekend morning to the lack of parking, they need to make some upgrades there. And no, some crappy bus from Ace hardware isn't the solution.

This. Parking full by 0830 on powder days is pretty much the norm anymore. Trying to weave an emergency vehicle through backed up traffic all the way to the S turns is a lot of fun. I will give props to Geordie for going big on Employee housing, the new units going into Gemstone should be real helpful in staffing seasonal folks. At the last housing authority meeting we calculated that there were 842 short term rentals in the county that paid lodging taxes, likely a few more that evaded it. 20% of households in the short term category doesn't bode well for the working class. I'd hate to own a business here and try to staff it.

[Kevo]

It seems like it would make a whole lot of sense for the county to charge a lodging tax on STRs in the way that the city of Driggs taxes STRs. At a minimum, revenue could be used for code enforcement of STRs (occupancy limits, noise ordinances, etc) and for infrastructure upkeep to offset the indirect costs of tourism.

So many STRs off ski hill road are in unincorporated Teton County ID where lodging taxes aren't currently collected.

[AdironRider]

Out in the county, most subdivisions are responsible for their own road maintenance, are on septic and wells, and the highways are maintained/funded by the State.

I'm not opposed to taxing STR's a penny or two, but we should be real about where that money is going.

I vote rec center personally.

[snapt]

Would something like Ketchum's 3% tax on STR's be prohibitive? I would guess folks would just build it into their pricing structure and tourists would hardly balk at it? Put it back into employee housing programs etc? Truckee has a grant program that awards $3000 to folks for converting their STR to at least a year lease for a local employee.

[Kevo]

Yep- lodging taxes get billed to the customer. I'd wager there is fairly inelastic demand for STR lodging in Teton County, meaning that if all Teton County STRs have their prices increase proportionally because of a lodging tax that tourists would just pay a couple percent more to stay here. Like Snapt said, they wouldn't balk at it.

There are very real indirect costs of tourism- increased traffic, increased costs of emergency services, increased demand for housing, etc, etc. It is illegal under Idaho law for counties and municipalities to prohibit STRs. Taxation is the only means to address these issues.

[snapt]

Yep, the Idaho statute is short and clear. Some places require owner occupancy 70% of time on the property which the state hasn’t struck down, yet.

[lifelinksplit]

No offense to Kevo but I do chuckle when Colorado peeps talk about how it's not that crowded after leaving a crowded place and contributing to crowding a new place. And yes I know overcrowding is due to a multitude of factors.

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[gtid]

I always laugh when I talk to friends and they bitch about how crowded Targhee is. I would say Targhee is busy but not crowded, terminology is up for debate. This year the lift lines have been a bit longer than normal due to the COVID deal but things hopefully will be back to normal next year. People spread out on the mountain. The biggest issue is the parking, same with just about every resort out there, look at big and little cottonwood for example. As targhee expands they need to figure out parking because right now it sucks, you either have to get up at 8-8:30 or come up at 1, I like the 1 option.


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[Kevo]

Would something like Ketchum's 3% tax on STR's be prohibitive? I would guess folks would just build it into their pricing structure and tourists would hardly balk at it? Put it back into employee housing programs etc? Truckee has a grant program that awards $3000 to folks for converting their STR to at least a year lease for a local employee.

Super interesting, thanks for sharing. I'd like to learn more about the housing situation here and what the housing authority is working on. Let's grab a drink or go MTBing sometime- I'll be fully vaccinated next week.

And yes LifeLinkSplit, by existing in Teton Valley I'm definitely part of the housing problem and a member of the crowd at Targhee. There's no denying that.

[AdironRider]

And advocating for new taxes, that's like a new transplant Yahtzee!

I kid, I kid. (Seriously I'm with ya on the STR thing but that was low hanging fruit)

[cydwhit]

Super interesting, thanks for sharing. I'd like to learn more about the housing situation here and what the housing authority is working on. Let's grab a drink or go MTBing sometime- I'll be fully vaccinated next week.

And yes LifeLinkSplit, by existing in Teton Valley I'm definitely part of the housing problem and a member of the crowd at Targhee. There's no denying that.

Subscribe to the Teton Valley News. Follow them on Facebook. They cover this sort of stuff, a lot. Unfollow Buckrail and subscribe to the JH N+G while you're at it too. Halberg does good Idaho reporting, and their problems always end up being our problems down the road.

It's the best way to stay up to date with what's happening in your community. TVN is edited by a skier who cares a whole lot about this place and the people that live in it.

[snapt]

Super interesting, thanks for sharing. I'd like to learn more about the housing situation here and what the housing authority is working on. Let's grab a drink or go MTBing sometime- I'll be fully vaccinated next week.

Sounds good, the public can zoom into the monthly housing authority meetings, links are on the City of Driggs website. TVN editor is good people!

It pretty wild, Mono County (Mammoth) has a Transient Occupancy Tax on rentals less than 31 days of 13%! Pays for some workforce housing, roads, plowing, etc. I'll bet it hasn't hurt demand at all.

[Core Shot]

STR here is 14.5%. A bit too much, but renters have to pay.

The ghee needs better parking if they keep expanding.

Maybe a gondola down to below the road switchbacks? That would be sweet. I’m sure it’s not in the permit, and that lands expensive
But could be hella base lodge expanded lodging etc

[haysman16]

Haysman, sorry to change subjects, but do you know if they are going to re-open/re-build Sticks and Stonesand Lower Sticks And Stones? By far my favorite descent on the mountain. It’s ‘almost’ Colorado chunk, which we don’t get much of here.

I am only there is the winters so don’t know the details on that, sorry

[skibrd]

Subscribe to the Teton Valley News. Follow them on Facebook. They cover this sort of stuff, a lot. Unfollow Buckrail and subscribe to the JH N+G while you're at it too. Halberg does good Idaho reporting, and their problems always end up being our problems down the road.

It's the best way to stay up to date with what's happening in your community. TVN is edited by a skier who cares a whole lot about this place and the people that live in it.

You do know Buckrail is owned by JHN+G? They are operated out of the same building by the same people?


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[cydwhit]

You do know Buckrail is owned by JHN+G? They are operated out of the same building by the same people?


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I'm aware that Buckrail was acquired by the N+G's parent company last year. Buckrail's staff, and as far as I can tell, their general lack of interest in doing good local journalism, stayed the same through that transition.

At the management level, sure it's the same people. But the people writing the stories are not the people writing the N+G's stories, and it only takes a brief perusal of the website or their social media to see that what they cover, and how they choose to present that coverage is radically different. I'm disappointed that the N+G didn't just kill Buckrail off when their parent company acquired them, but it doesn't change my conviction that N+G makes this community better, and Buckrail does its best to make it worse.

[east or bust]

Asking a big favor.. would any Jackson mags be able to facilitate a bike exchange between myself and Hoff’s?

I fucked up and misread their hours. Thought they closed at 6 tonight but they actually closed at 5 and I wasn’t able to dip out of my work-for-free-on-saturdays job early enough to make the drop.

Wondering if anyone can take the bike from me tomorrow and drop off on Monday - getting the frame wrapped FWIW.


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[noparking]

Asking a big favor.. would any Jackson mags be able to facilitate a bike exchange between myself and Hoff’s?

I fucked up and misread their hours. Thought they closed at 6 tonight but they actually closed at 5 and I wasn’t able to dip out of my work-for-free-on-saturdays job early enough to make the drop.

Wondering if anyone can take the bike from me tomorrow and drop off on Monday - getting the frame wrapped FWIW.


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If you haven't found someone to help out yet I could make it happen for you. Fell free to shoot me a PM

[rideit]

I can help as well if you strike out. My Instinct was the first frame Tim wrapped, (a few years ago) he did a fantastic job. But he has serious experience with snowmobile wraps.

[east or bust]

PM sent, thanks!


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[CrystalMountainSkier]

[QUOTE=haysman16;6291550]

Does anyone know why targhee is keeping Peaked closed to uphill traffic in the off season? Did they get the ok to start expansion work? I don’t remember hearing anything.


There are two phases to expansion at Targhee, the Peaked lift where Catski is now, and the southern expansion. Targhee received permission from the FS years ago to add the Peaked lift and the lift line has already been cut. The Southern Expansion is still working its way through the permitting process

There has been no “official” word that the Peaked lift is happening, but I can say people have been out measuring the amount of snow needed to be moved to get in and start pouring concrete and doing the blasting work for the top terminal. Lift most definitely will not go in this summer but the bulk of the dirty work will happen so it can go in for the winter of 21-22. Again no official word but the vibe and conversations up there it feels like it’s happening

It's official. Peaked six pack.

https://liftblog.com/2021/04/20/gran...aked-mountain/

[babybear]

Asking a big favor.. would any Jackson mags be able to facilitate a bike exchange between myself and Hoff’s?

I fucked up and misread their hours. Thought they closed at 6 tonight but they actually closed at 5 and I wasn’t able to dip out of my work-for-free-on-saturdays job early enough to make the drop.

Wondering if anyone can take the bike from me tomorrow and drop off on Monday - getting the frame wrapped FWIW.


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I didn't see this until now but I'm always happy to helps you out. you should've texted.
but also psyched you will be back up biking this summer. the riding here is pretty much as good as the skiing (once it finally melts out)