~ ~ SKI THE BIG ONE ~ ~ JACKSON HOLE '20-'21

[rideit]

Living here is still better than what, 70-80% of the rest of the country, in terms of quality of life and access to the outdoors. But yeah, it’s pricey…

[kokomas]

hey gang anyone need a garage bike rack? maybe trade for a 6-12 pack?

Attachment 382655
(thule box taken by my neighbor)

and Jackstraw keep us posted on your ski trip plans and/or pm.
It’s changed a shit-ton here, but it’s hardly hellish

Hey BB we'd love to take that off your hands for some brews. I'll give you a holler

[Bronic]

[The Suit]

Ahh, I see. Did the JHLT grab that piece to cock block TV from ever expanding into RS?

That's my understanding, although I don't know for 100% sure. My wife joined the JHLT board a few years after that deal was done.

[SuperGaper]

Speaking of the Land Trust, and its effect on the tax base of Teton County, my biggest client paid

property taxes in 2019 (8000 sq foot house completed): $ 10,977.79

After working with the Land Trust, pretty sure, in perpetuity, the tax bill is: $ 537.17

Source: Teton County GIS land and tax records.



I think the Land Trust is a boondoggle that cuts the county off at the knees and gives the uber
wealthy the feelies.

Edit for clarity, 2020 tax paid in full is $537.17, assume that is in perpetuity. Yea open spaces!

Edit for further clarity: 379 acres, a crown jewel in the Land Trust portfolio.

Source: JH Land Trust website.

[NBABUCKS1]

That's amazing on the land trust. There's a bunch out in the hoback and I was trying to figure out the why. Makes a lot of sense now. Side note big fan of the greenwood map servers. A lot better than the arcgis products other counties in different states use in my eyes.

Also anyone know what happened with the deceased hiker coming off of Gannet peak? Going to guess a fall of some sort. Was a Dr. in Cheyenne

[SuperGaper]

Well dude, you had me going for a minute. I began thinking maybe you were one of the handful of locs that got a lifetime ban and that you had a mighty big chip on your shoulder. Glad to hear you were just letting it out a little.

We all have moments of hate and disgust for this place, myself included. Frankly, I have no tiny rep for being grumpy on the hill. It drives me nuts how great this place could have been and still could be.
Over the years I found myself in opposition to the Man, and voiced that regularly. Lost a few corners and had a list on the patrol rolodex as long as anyone, only to be redeemed after a scary year off, mandated by the Clownshow.

But as you said, the wheel keeps turning and it's a business. It could be run better by deep pockets and some vision but that's hoping beyond hope methinks.

I would argue that the soul of JH skiing is not gone yet. Guys like you and I have had the good fortune to roll the vill at her best and we know she delivers the goods like few others.
The way we ski and our view of the ski world is unique, formed by the village and all she asks: Big vert, deep days, ultra cold spells, exceptionally high speeds, and Big Mtn. laps create a different kind of skier mindset.
It's the Jackson way, super balanced, aggressive and always ready for the unexpected...
I can show you a local styler from 100 miles away. Supergaper's got it, so does Swerve and a handful of other mags on here.
I call it Master's level skiing.
And there's the soul of it.
Until we're all long gone and no one remembers, it'll still be a thing.

And get 10-20 rowdy locals in line at the box and man, lemme tell ya, it's a flavor, a funk, a feeling you may never feel anywhere else. Get to the bench in the 'Backs on the right day and it's as soulful as it gets.
(Unless you're the odd man out, then it's a tough row to hoe, fosho...)


From all accounts you're a top shelf ripper who represents anytime. And I trust my intel from other crushers. Teach your lil' grom The Way, and our souls will smile forever.

Right on Djongo! You and RaisingArizona would be like 2 peas in a pod- Raising- you were Darryl's star a few years running at Storm Show Studios, I made it into a movie walking through the turnstile for last tram once, kinda like Djongo's call out up thread, me getting off the tram.

I don't actually ski, just ride trams!

Also, my good buddy and erstwhile co worker Shro, was one of Raising"s first huck buddys.

In any case, dying of smoke, traffic, no skiing and all that stuff.

Can't wait to make some turns!

[SuperGaper]

From the Teton County GIS, self reporting my taxes-

.23 acres, 1100 sq foot Boise Cascade prefab circa 1971

Year of purchase: 2013, $ 2,364.78

Taxes Paid 2020: $ 4,900.79

In 7 years more than doubled, my clients, the .001% evade their share at level almost inconceivable to the
average Joe. I know poly asshat, but everybody dig a little in your local GIS. If you know where to look, you will see some "stuff".

I am happy to pay my taxes, and want to participate in the common good of my community- just wish all the tax dodging estate planning rich fucks had a moral compass. /millionairewilderness

[SuperGaper]

Annnnd just finishing my bottle of wine- to all, a goodnight!

[rideit]

Gaper, can you post a link to where I can see property owner’s names? I looked on the county, but no names showed up?

[SuperGaper]

https://maps.greenwoodmap.com/tetonwy/mapserver/

Amazing the amount of trusts and trustees! or not.

[The Suit]

Gaper, can you post a link to where I can see property owner’s names? I looked on the county, but no names showed up?

It's a rabbit hole, man.

Go to the greenwood map server and choose the ownership map. You should have a question mark for a cursor. Find the property you're interested in, zoom in and click on it.

There's way too much info there.

[SuperGaper]

For LLC's you have to go the Secretary of State for more info.

I'm not savvy on that stuff.

[rideit]

Aha, I’m trying to figure out who owns a property, I thought that was public if not an Llc.

[SuperGaper]

Would also like to add I am a huge fan of Mr. and Mrs. Suit, we got our first shots of vaccine this spring at the same time! Totally coincidental, but affirming of a small town vibe! Known em' for years and are so great.

[SuperGaper]

Aha, I’m trying to figure out who owns a property, I thought that was public if not an Llc.

Type a name or address in the search box in the ownership map- voila!

[The Suit]

https://maps.greenwoodmap.com/tetonwy/mapserver/

Amazing the amount of trusts and trustees! or not.

I thought you were drunk already. And asleep.

My property taxes more than doubled over your time range, too. I suck at tax avoidance.

I've become more ambivalent about the Land Trust over the years. On the one hand, I love the open space. Thanks to the JHLT, Nature Conservancy, and GTNP, my home is never going to change. On the other hand, the argument that Land Trusts have become a tool for billionaires to protect their selfish interests is pretty compelling.

It's a technical point but that $537 number doesn't sound right. Conservation easements don't work that way. If you look at the conservation easements map and find a parcel that has an easement but also has one or more homesites on it, they're generally assessed and taxed similarly to any other lot that has a home on it.

[The Suit]

Would also like to add I am a huge fan of Mr. and Mrs. Suit, we got our first shots of vaccine this spring at the same time! Totally coincidental, but affirming of a small town vibe! Known em' for years and are so great.

Mutual admiration society, Mr. SuperGaper. It was funny when we went for the second shot we ran into a bunch of people we know. One of them was directing traffic in the parking lot -- we caught up with her until we felt bad about backing up traffic. The person who stuck me with my second shot was an old friend, too.

Edit to add -- I'm also drunk, because I had a beer.

[AEvospace]

I can't wait to shred a steep mountain again.

What kind of crowds are expected around New Years now? That's the only time I have off with school, trips are already booked. Last time I spent time in the Tetons, it was pre-what you guys are talking about, even during holidays. Somehow, the impression that I get, I feel like I'm leaving Squaw crowds for more Squaw crowds.

I'm ready for whatever though, worst case I'll meet some shredders in the lines.

[The Suit]

I can't wait to shred a steep mountain again.

What kind of crowds are expected around New Years now? That's the only time I have off with school, trips are already booked. Last time I spent time in the Tetons, it was pre-what you guys are talking about, even during holidays. Somehow, the impression that I get, I feel like I'm leaving Squaw crowds for more Squaw crowds.

I'm ready for whatever though, worst case I'll meet some shredders in the lines.

It will be very crowded from Christmas - New Years. On the plus side, a lot of those holiday skiers will avoid the rowdier terrain.

[AEvospace]

At least my toes only go numb now, in my boots, instead of my whole foot. I mind lines less now.

[Djongo Unchained]

I'd add that if any of those days are Ikon blackout days, it is noticeably quieter.
And we can make fun out of anything. Those huge people days are typically huge snow days too, so there's that.


I got some crazy gis searching skills, oh you betcha.
Been looking at who owns what for a long time. Cripes, there are some gems out there that far away families have been sitting on for decades; in Kelly for instance...

Look at some of the big properties and notice the tiny parcel cutout and belonging to the Trust. Lock up your 35+ acres and pay tiny taxes by donating one acre.

[altasnob]

The way I understand land trusts, in general, is you give up your right to develop the land for the rest of time, which is binding on future owners, and in exchange, you don't pay property tax on that land. How is this a boondoggle? It is a rich person taking private land away from future development to maintain habitat for wildlife or agriculture land. And they pay a huge price for doing that (not being able to develop it, so the value of the land drops astronomically). Yes, billionaires prefer to put a land trust buffer around their castle but even without land trust, they could always just buy up all the surrounding land and let it sit without developing it. The only difference is with land trust they get a tax break on that surrounding land and in exchange, it will remain undeveloped in perpetuity.

Would you locals prefer if all the land trusts around Jackson were packed with row homes and Walmarts? Can you imagine what Jackson would look like if Wyoming didn't have a land trust law? All the green in this map would be developed into homes by now:

[AdironRider]

I imagine a place where locals can afford to live, with plenty of green space afforded by two gigantic national parks, a national wildlife refuge, and a couple million acres of national forest.

[raisingarizona13]

The way I understand land trusts, in general, is you give up your right to develop the land for the rest of time, which is binding on future owners, and in exchange, you don't pay property tax on that land. How is this a boondoggle? It is a rich person taking private land away from future development to maintain habitat for wildlife or agriculture land. And they pay a huge price for doing that (not being able to develop it, so the value of the land drops astronomically). Yes, billionaires prefer to put a land trust buffer around their castle but even without land trust, they could always just buy up all the surrounding land and let it sit without developing it. The only difference is with land trust they get a tax break on that surrounding land and in exchange, it will remain undeveloped in perpetuity.

Would you locals prefer if all the land trusts around Jackson were packed with row homes and Walmarts? Can you imagine what Jackson would look like if Wyoming didn't have a land trust law? All the green in this map would be developed into homes by now:

It would be extremely unfortunate to see some of those plots of land have affordable housing for low income workers and "gasp".......brown colored folk.

By protecting lands around their properties doesn't that increase the value of their real estate? So it's not like it's some sort of altruistic charitable move.

If you ask these folks that are donating to the LT if they would help create affordable housing what might be their response?

When I spent a winter in Telluride the rich woman I worked for lead the effort to protect the open space in the mouth of the canyon. I would half jokingly tell her I'd like to get a Walmart in there so I could get affordable groceries and other goods because Telluride was pretty stupid to live in for working class people. F I loved seeing the look on her face.