~ ~ SKI THE BIG ONE ~ ~ JACKSON HOLE '20-'21

[AdironRider]

Telluride is Jackson's future, only Jackson will be on a much grander scale.

I went there (Telluride) and the place was fucking dead. No one around, on a Saturday in mid-August. I saw more real estate signs than people. Ouray at least had people there and felt interesting.

[raisingarizona13]

Telluride is Jackson's future, only Jackson will be on a much grander scale.

I went there (Telluride) and the place was fucking dead. No one around, on a Saturday in mid-August. I saw more real estate signs than people. Ouray at least had people there and felt interesting.

My feelings now are that the best mountain towns are the ones that don't have a big ass ski resort.

I'm curious, where does the community of Jackson keep their Mexicans these days?

[AdironRider]

The ones I know still do the same thing, with three families rotating in 8 hour shifts in rental housing. Only now they do it in Tetonia and Thayne vs East Jackson and Hoback.

[Djongo Unchained]

Teton county has 2 major land trusts that comprise 97% of all acreage. They're called Grand Teton and Yellowstone National parks.
Tying up the remaining 3% incrementally so that billionaires can get a tax break, under the guise of protecting open space is BS to me.
And for many it's just another investment property, they're not here to actually contribute to the community. Unless of course, it's fully tax deductible.

You may be the first to mention the 'brown folks.'
I find that they generally make good neighbors and are way more relatable than the 2 week a year land hoarders.
When the local cheap ass business owners decided they were paying american kids too much hourly, they began to import mexicans from Tlascala exclusively...less educated and more likely to work for an hourly wage that US high school grads realize is getting ripped off. But if you can live 10 to a house, work a lot for a few years, you can either bring the family in Ol Mexico out of dirt poverty or set yerself up for life, south of the border. A majority of Mexican wages go south, which although not ideal, it is nonetheless admirable.

Supply and demand in a place like this has been distorted to the point of unsustainability for all but the wealthiest...in a town that has historically been for po folks waaaay at the end of the road.
I never heard the term dirt pimp until I moved here.

[kokomas]

Land trust has always sounded like a good idea to me though maybe some new shit has come to light. Hard to argue preserving open spaces is bad here (in some form) though I'm not privy to what The Suit is seeing. Let's not forget the valley is the way it is because of the ultimate land trust of the Rockefellers. If not, who knows we could be like O-town now. And most of us wouldn't be living here for the fumes of burning horse meat at the village dogfood factory.

I still think the accessory rental unit rules should be enforced to get short term renter snowbirds out of those things. The program was enacted to provide county wide workers with places to rent. It actually requires that renters be county workers. It doesn't seem to be doing that. This has to be hundreds of houses. Plus if they streamlined the permitting/building process and partnered with irontown homes to keep construction costs attainable, maybe many more. The argument against that I've heard it's just that they want density in the town not the county but with the traffic the way it is I think the ship has sailed on that already, they need to widen 22 and 390 for safety purposes now anyway.

Though I heard perhaps a complementary idea that's better the other day. What about though housing company route. How about a C Corp who's mission is to promote more affordable housing options. It could solicit potential sellers in the community for a right of first refusal when they sell and the resulting homes could be deeded either temporarily or permanently. Any wealthy around here who wanted decent service in town could buy shares. And perhaps businesses who are hamstrung to provide employee housing could meet their requirements by paying in as well. Provide an option for home sellers who want to cash in but would prefer to pass on their home to contributors to the community. I guess the corporation would need to massively subsidize the deals but seems like more collective action could help

[altasnob]

With all due respect, land trusts are about preventing "locals" from permanently ruining a location. Say there were no land trusts in Jackson. All that land would be developed and yes, housing would temporarily be cheaper. But as generations pass, housing would again become unaffordable (because there is simply limited amount of private land around Jackson, regardless of land trusts). Then the future "locals" would be complaining about housing but there wouldn't be any land trusts to blame. Jackson isn't Denver, and it should never be Denver. It's a small town surrounded by amazing federally owned land. It's a place to get gas, groceries, and a bite to eat before heading out to those amazing federally owned land. It is not a place for the masses to move to and raise a family. Even without land trusts, rich people would buy up massive amounts of land and keep it undeveloped (who wouldn't want to live on a caster surrounded by wildlife?). It's America. It's free market. Land trusts make the federal lands around Jackson a great place to visit (not live) for my children's, children, children.

Land trusts are also a key tool at keeping an agriculture area rural. Say a farmer owns a bunch of land around Jackson, purchased 60 years ago. The land is now worth millions. The greedy offspring want to inherit the land, subdivide it, and sell it off. But the farmer wants that land to be farmed for the rest of time. What are they to do? Put it in a conservation easement that specifically says the only allowable use of the land is farming. The greedy kids get hosed. But us, as a society. get to maintain farming in places that absent conservation easements, would become giant McMansions.

[raisingarizona13]

Man am I glad that my sarcasm wasn't missed, after posting that one I was like........oh crap I sound like a racist!

[Djongo Unchained]

Also, one of my PNW mag bros turned me on to some of RAZ13's viddy and I gotta say, Damn dog!

SG says we're 2 peas in a pod, Lookout!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Rockefellers, arguably the richest family in the world, bought up much of the park lands thru a group under a different name so as not to overpay the wyoming ranchers. If anyone could've actually afforded to pay a fair price, it was them.

I'm all for the open spaces, all 97% of them.

[altasnob]

My feelings now are that the best mountain towns are the ones that don't have a big ass ski resort.

This x1000. You want affordable housing, you hate crowds? There are hundreds of other places in the West where this is exists. My personal view of places like Jackson and Telluride is to keep the footprint as small as possible and frozen in time. So those federal lands surrounding the area are not spoiled.

[zion zig zag]

I still have a DVD copy of "The Precious" from 2003. You in that one raisingarizona13?

[raisingarizona13]

Also, one of my PNW mag bros turned me on to some of RAZ13's viddy and I gotta say, Damn dog!

SG says we're 2 peas in a pod, Lookout!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Rockefellers, arguably the richest family in the world, bought up much of the park lands thru a group under a different name so as not to overpay the wyoming ranchers. If anyone could've actually afforded to pay a fair price, it was them.

I'm all for the open spaces, all 97% of them.

Thanks. My last edit was probably my last hoorah so to speak. I'm in total Dad skiing mode these days and more focused on work really.

[Djongo Unchained]

Enough hacking the land issues.

This...

[teleee]

Enough hacking the land issues.

This...

Those might possibly be my legs on the far right (back when I had fully functional knees)

[raisingarizona13]

I still have a DVD copy of "The Precious" from 2003. You in that one raisingarizona13?

I have like one or three pretty lame shots in there. I had moved here to Flag during the summer of 02 and only visited that following winter for a week or two. I wasn't feeling the air time after my 01/02 winter after partially tearing both my shoulders and having other aches and pains. My gf broke her leg in half that last winter in Alta Zero which made her decide to go to school. We were both pretty fucked up and to make the bills had to keep our houses air temp around 50. God that hurt, I was taking a couple of hot showers a day to get warm and was eating pain killers with beers just to fall a sleep at night by March. It was a big March too but I wasn't interested in skiing at that point.

Anyways, long story short I felt burnt out on all of that, you know chasing my ski dreams and struggling to pay the bills. It was like I had turned my dream life style into the exact same sort of lifestyle I wanted to leave behind in New Jersey where I grew up.

The sunny south west was calling I guess. After one season here I never called my sponsors back or tried to have much connection to the industry and then I started touring the completely empty back country here.

[zion zig zag]

I have like one or three pretty lame shots in there. I had moved here to Flag during the summer of 02 and only visited that following winter for a week or two. I wasn't feeling the air time after my 01/02 winter after partially tearing both my shoulders and having other aches and pains. My gf broke her leg in half that last winter in Alta Zero which made her decide to go to school. We were both pretty fucked up and to make the bills had to keep our houses air temp around 50. God that hurt, I was taking a couple of hot showers a day to get warm and was eating pain killers with beers just to fall a sleep at night by March. It was a big March too but I wasn't interested in skiing at that point.

Anyways, long story short I felt burnt out on all of that, you know chasing my ski dreams and struggling to pay the bills. It was like I had turned my dream life style into the exact same sort of lifestyle I wanted to leave behind in New Jersey where I grew up.

The sunny south west was calling I guess. After one season here I never called my sponsors back or tried to have much connection to the industry and then I started touring the completely empty back country here.

Damn, rough go for sure, but good story.

[raisingarizona13]

Maybe some you can relate to this, I think there's areal beauty to getting older and maturing as a skier. There's a whole lot less hucking but a lot of other aspects become more refined and dialed in. Things like focusing on driving turns are bending the shit out of the ski and even moguls. I freaking love bumps now, I used to hate them when I was all about skiing powder and hucking cliffs. I realize now that I hated them because I sucked at em!

[Buster Highmen]

^Yup.
I tore my acl when I was 45. No more fast skiing or big air for me now. It's all about the arc in pursuit of the perfect turn.

[raisingarizona13]

Damn, rough go for sure, but good story.

Nah, not really a rough go imho. I tried really hard but wasn't going to ever be as good as the guys that were trailing right behind me like Andrew (B-Bears guy) for example. The sport was changing so quickly and I was too tired to try and keep up or maybe lacking in skills. I had been working with Andrew McGarry for a few years shooting photos and he eventually told me that if I had been there in Jackson skiing the way I was back in the mid 90's I would have been a big success with the pro skier thing, that was a tough pill to swallow but I had some success being a B-teamer and having gear and passes taken care of. I could have stuck it out and continued to go for it, maybe I would have progressed enough or heck, maybe I'd end up dead. It's doesn't matter, I feel incredibly lucky to have had those experiences in Jackson. I skied around with some of the best of the bast of that era while exploring the south terrain and pushing myself. In a lot of ways those were the most exciting days of my life. No regrats!

[rideit]

Woo-hoo, we’re #1!

Party time in the trailer parks of Tetonia!


Wait….

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ing-at-the-top

[rideit]

As long as we are piling on feels for RA13, he is no damn slouch on the bike either. Thanks for showing me Wasabi/etc! And your trail/advocacy work!

As a ray of hope, the whole bike scene has become pretty fucking amazing here, and it’s the 2cnd major thing that keeps us here (besides my wife’s career/practice).

Basically, the trails *kinda* sucked in the mid-nineties…(there were a few gems, though).

[raisingarizona13]

As long as we are piling on feels for RA13, he is no damn slouch on the bike either. Thanks for showing me Wasabi/etc! And your trail/advocacy work!

Thanks, still at it man! You shredded the shit out of those trails! Wasabi and Ginger are now gone form the Museum fire and the flooding we've had this summer. We got 3 inches in an hour yesterday right over the burn scar. The run out from that scar pours right into Flagstaff's east side. There were raging rivers going right through town!

I'm currently working on a fun (well I hope so anyways) bike edit, it should be done by October.

[raisingarizona13]

No doubt rideit. There wasn't much back around 2000 but what there was was pretty quality imo.

The trails at the Ghee have really caught my attention lately. That place looks sick.

[NBABUCKS1]

Telluride is Jackson's future, only Jackson will be on a much grander scale.

I went there (Telluride) and the place was fucking dead. No one around, on a Saturday in mid-August. I saw more real estate signs than people. Ouray at least had people there and felt interesting.

I mean we all complain about the crowds. Might be nice to be dead for a change

[raisingarizona13]

I mean we all complain about the crowds. Might be nice to be dead for a change

There's the upside to being remote and having a less reliable snowfall. Telluride is expensive as hell though. It's not in my budget any longer but to be honest, if it's stable and dumping in the San Juans there isn't anywhere else I'd rather be skiing.

[Djongo Unchained]

I mean we all complain about the crowds. Might be nice to be dead for a change

It used to be dead here from April thru May and October thru November.
Now it's about 2 weeks in April and 3 weeks in November.
2nd week of November can be crazy dead and stressful if it's dry below 11k ft.