~ ~ SKI THE BIG ONE ~ ~ JACKSON HOLE '20-'21

[rideit]

I could bike up and get it, CY.

[cydwhit]

Ya'll are the best, thanks! I'll holler with more details once I know whether we need to bring bikes or not.

Thanks!

[snapt]

Pretty good Blister podcast on mountain town economics. https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/m...ls-more-ep-177

[Bronic]

https://buckrail.com/jhmr-issued-mor...-21-22-season/

Is this new info or did I miss something??

FS approves "ski trail improvements" to lower sublette ridge, cheyenne gully, BITH.

WTF, leave the lower faces alone! Also, ya, excellent thinking, "let us widen R trail so we can pump more deep pocket, blue square skiers up the tram..." FFS

Anybody know more specifics?

[AdironRider]

I mean, I kinda get Cheyenne gully, that place is a terrain trap for joeys, but bird in hand and lower sublette ridge are two of my favorite runs on the entire mountain and any changes there are no bueno in my eyes.

Like, I was fine with Casper going the way of the low intermediate, but taming the upper mountain is fucked ultimately.

Feels like Mary Kate got in over her head on a couple pow days and that obviously just cannot stand.

Next they'll smooth out little man in a boat, which will still be the funniest run name ever at least.

[plugboots]

ski trail improvements include:

Rendezvous Trail widening
Bird-In-The-Hand upgrade
Hoback Trail entrance upgrade
Cheyenne Gully exit upgrade
Lower Sublette Ridge trail upgrade

Just fucking groom the whole mountain.

[east or bust]

Honestly surprised the FS is approving this shit. But then again I don’t know what kind of dynamic exists between the Ks and the FS…


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[snapt]

The King got what they wanted, Targhee is about to get theirs. Supposedly there's a memorandum from the FS someplace that places emphasis on giving existing resorts what they want to discourage development of new resorts.

[Core Shot]

Fuck. I heard about the bird groomer. That sucks.

And Cheyenne exit? Another big groomer. Although that makes more sense than bird. I’m sure there have been a few rescues there when tourons pucker up.

But bird groomer? For fucks sake by the time you get to bird just take Laramie.

Fuck these pussification Fuck sticks

Stop ruining the best mountain in North America.

[stevied]

ski trail improvements include:

Rendezvous Trail widening
Bird-In-The-Hand upgrade
Hoback Trail entrance upgrade
Cheyenne Gully exit upgrade
Lower Sublette Ridge trail upgrade

Just fucking groom the whole mountain.

I vote no on each of these “upgrades”. Do they really want another Vail? I don’t.

[rideit]

You, my friend, aren’t their target customer anymore.

[2bjenny]

Wait, they are planning on grooming the bird?

[skiJ]

You, my friend, aren’t their target customer anymore.

^^^ this is a significantly Important point --

to those who love Jackson Hole for what it has been - I am truly sorry !


Time marches on... skiJ

[Djongo Unchained]

I would not speculate too much on what the term 'Upgrade' actually means.

I rather doubt they are gonna form a groomer over the Bird in Hand zone. More likely will be them knocking out some rocks in the crux area so it won't get so bony, so fast.

Maybe the same in Cheyenne gully; The road to the hobacks will likely get widened or at the end of the road, where it becomes a tighter mess, they'll likely open it up so as to to let skiers enter the pitches more easily.

I expect any widening of R trail is to open more space for schoolers and their clients who regularly get buzzed there by locals. Where they would widen it, I don't know.
The runout at the bottom would be a good place to start.

Lower Sublette ridge is likely to be tree thinning at the bottom.

This is all wishful thinking on my part with a lil' bit of guessing based on past actions. They could go crazy but I doubt it.
The decision makers have a long history of fucking things up, then kinda fixing it.
Rarely, if ever, have they nailed an improvement on the first try.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My read on the OB days is that the FS originally said 'Ok, that whole zone can have X amount of total days of usage.
JHMR gets Y amount with Z amount left over, to be used as overflow.

JHMR has been using all of Y and been tapping into Z quite a bit. which in turn is allowed, but makes for a lot of paperwork.
So the resort says, 'hey, instead of us doing this the long way, howzabout you just give us all of Y and Z, which equals X, or all of those days.
FS says ok.
The forest service has largely been commandeered by the Valley powers as being critical to the survival of the community, therefore any negative input from the forest service is roundly derided by local business interests as killing the local economy.
Which is bullshit. Like having no North bridge because it would steer tourists away from the downtown rubber Tomahawk sales.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The ineptitude of local politics is mind boggling here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The locals' vibe here in the valley has become one where it's fairly obvious that the Kemmerer's just don't care anymore about appearing as the best stewards for the village.
That was their BS story for decades but it's become readily apparent that since not a single family member wants to carry the torch forward, they've said, 'fuck it, let's juice it for a sale and GTFO.'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Mother Nature side of the equation stays constant, It's the Human Nature side that continuously fucks that up.

The village will always be great, The terrain , snow and OB access quality remains, It's the dumbfuck 'improvements ' that may require a wider and wider berth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For me, being first up the hill, is about the only rule that consistently delivers the goods I require anymore.
Luckily, I'm an early riser.
And it helps to know where to go and when. One wrong decision on a deep day can have brutal consequences as far as getting the best possible lines.


And the locals, be they old ones or new ones, have rarely if ever, been the focal point of anyone in management.
Almost zero locals work at/for the Resort these days. Empoyment at the village was once prized, now it's laughed off as ignorance of the local job market.
You can wash dishes, rental cars or make beds and ski/earn more than loading butts.

Saw an ad the other day to wash dishes @ $22hr.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm still waiting on that 700" season...

[raisingarizona13]

I vote no on each of these “upgrades”. Do they really want another Vail? I don’t.

The wheel in the sky keeps on turning and to be honest, they don't care about your opinion and as rideit said, you (we) aren't their target market.

I get it, it's a business and I can see why they want to make some improvements to the mountain. It's reputation and terrain has become it's own worst enemy and the lift and trail system design isn't really functional any longer.

I'm definitely not surprised about grooming some of the lower face terrain. It's a huge chunk of terrain that is mostly underused. If I were working for the mountain and looking at improvements I'd probably be eying up how to get people to Sublette chair and Thunder more quickly. I could see the top terminal right on the junction of the Grand and the Thunder lift line. That would spread people out better and move people out of the base area more efficiently. The groomers down the lower faces would all of a sudden make a lot more sense then. Some groomed on the LF stuff could be pretty nice when it's all crusted up, it sure would be welcomed by the tourist skiers, you know, the ones that pay the bills. The consistent pitch of the LF's is unfortunately not really the best for groomer skiing imho but it is what it is.

I fucking guarantee you they are going to go after getting Rock Springs in bounds in the next 10 or so years. The rolling terrain in RS is ideal for quality cruiser trails, the biggest thing that mountain is missing from a marketing standpoint. A little blasting with dynamite here and there could really open up that place.

Oh well, that town is more fucked than ever. Sorry folks, the ship has sailed. There's still places to go that haven't been ruined yet but you aren't going to find walk on trams with untracked lines every lap, not that Jackson has really had that anyways in the last 15 or so years. It's a great mountain but I've got news for ya, it's NOT the ski center of the universe as so many locals like to believe it is. There's so many other great places to visit and experience that don't have all of that hype, expense and crowds. I haven't visited there since 2013 and to be honest don't really want to any longer. I can get more for my dollar without the stress and hassles that the village now has become and besides, the moguls are so much sicker at Taos!

[Core Shot]

RS is not in the permit.

Although ironically upper RS is. E.g pucker shadows and powder 8. But nothing down low. I think they added that hoping for north facing late season ski race training.
But they’d need a lift back up R bowl

The master plan has a lower faces lift.
As well as a ski bridge over the traverse from Casper to AV. That’s for a World Cup race in theory.

I get Cheyenne. But bird makes no sense. I know I’m repeating myself. But fuck. It makes no sense.

And hoback entrance also makes sense. A bit tight up top.

[raisingarizona13]

Permits can be adjusted.

[The Suit]

Permits can be adjusted.

I'm pretty sure the Land Trust has an easement on lower Rock Springs. It's a 200+ acre parcel where the hut is located.

[plugboots]

Some of the terrain features being "improved" are natural barriers that weed people out.
The thing that most of us like about the feature is exactly what management dislikes. So BIH, etc. is improved by making access easier and having more people on it? Sure.

[snapt]

WYDOT reducing the speed limit on the pass to 45 https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...805902881.html

[Djongo Unchained]

I'm pretty sure the Land Trust has an easement on lower Rock Springs. It's a 200+ acre parcel where the hut is located.

This is correct. The resort traded the lower 210 acres to the JH Land trust for the acreage at Stilson lot, years ago.
Anything can change but I'd bet heavy against this.

IMO, many of the problems they face could be minimized by capping capacity. They never really needed to until more recently. Even 5-7 years ago, skiing wasn't nearly as fucked as it has become in the last 3 years.

And different than popular belief, there are still days that blow your mind here.
Skiing the village is not completely shot, it just has way fewer sleeper days. If we had a blizzard the first week of December, where the 3 roads in closed, we'd be in Heaven. It happens.

[Djongo Unchained]

WYDOT reducing the speed limit on the pass to 45 https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...805902881.html

More of Jackson's Milquetoast politicians.

Commuting just got suckier.

[plugboots]

More of Jackson's Milquetoast politicians.

Commuting just got suckier.

This. JFC.
It happens all the time. People move to a place for a reason, then change that place to what they are used to, or they get older and can't handle it anymore or whatever. Ruins it.
In my area, they take out the sagebrush and plant a lawn, etc.

[skibrd]

Most of us don’t take Hoback road into the Hobacks anyways.

Permits change, money talks, RS will get developed one of these days.

We love our resorts just as they are, but more and more people are skiing every year, and rarely are new resorts opened. Something needs to give, we can’t keep jamming 20 pounds of crap into 5 pound bags. Do I want to see RS covered with lifts, no, but it just means we will have to discover new boot packs and lines to ski. I hope I can figure out a way be there to explore new ways to ski JHMR.


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[skiJ]

Most of us don’t take Hoback road into the Hobacks anyways.

Permits change, money talks, RS will get developed one of these days.

We love our resorts just as they are, but more and more people are skiing every year, and rarely are new resorts opened. Something needs to give, we can’t keep jamming 20 pounds of crap into 5 pound bags. Do I want to see RS covered with lifts, no, but it just means we will have to discover new boot packs and lines to ski. I hope I can figure out a way be there to explore new ways to ski JHMR.

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truth ^^^

skiJ