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  1. #51
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    festool tracksaw is about the only tool they make that I like. Their vacuums, orbital sanders and jigsaws leave much to be desired imo.


    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    I dunno, I'm a tool guy. If there is one that makes my life easier, more efficient, higher quality, fun etc. I'm gonna own it. I tend not to respect tradesman that don't respect their tools or spend money on the right one for the application.

    Its a big part of the problem with blue collar work in this country. The workers want to be respected but they don't even respect their craft. It has gotten so bad that many guys don't even know what a tight job looks like. Clean up...every day...really all the time. Act like every 1/16 maters...because it does. Strive to make every single thing you do look awesome. Be self critical and aware. Try for process improvement every time you do something..."how did I do it last time, did it work, was it efficient, what could be better".

    Without fail, the dudes bitching are the ones working for bottom of the barrel generals wading around in their own 7/11 mess hacking is up with shitty tools, showing up late.

    I work on houses that cost $1,000 a sq. ft. They better be awesome and that's on the contractors that build them.
    This resonates.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by fleaches View Post


    Speaking of a bigger purchase, contractor table saw? What's a decent midrange option? Sawstop would be nice but it's like 3x the price of everything else.

    Thanks again for all the advice!

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app
    Definitely non-professional, home furniture maker here.
    I like my Dewalt. I see them on a lot of job sites I drive by.
    A good shop vac, 5HP, doesn't need to handle wet, doesn't need a detachable blower, has made my life much more pleasant. I hook mine up to my chop saw, belt and orbital sanders, bandsaw, router table. (The table saw and jointer/planer go to a real dust collector but that's worth it only for serious woodworking.) I have a Ridgid l like a lot. Also a Ridgid compact router I use to do inlay. I think the Ridgid stuff is very well made. I don't know about the cordless stuff.

    Yes you can crosscut on a table saw--if you have a full size saw with extension wings and make a sled for larger pieces, but crosscutting anything large on today's contractor's saws is not practical, and even for small pieces the miter gauge is pretty flimsy. If I need to cross cut something and don't have my chop saw I just use a circular saw with a speed square and a blade with a lot of fine teeth (and make sure the bad side is up).

  4. #54
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    Nov 2002
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    8,713
    We are almost there...not enough "being a dick" however.

    This isn't a bad deal for those that want to feel the smug https://festools-online.com/205604-f...8aAsR9EALw_wcB

    Vic, what's the fascination with the jig saw? I have a cordless yellow and a plug in blue. The Bosch never makes it out of the garage. I just don't view a jiggy as a finish tool. I'm either gonna use a pullsaw, sander, file, shaper etc. to work up to the line (knife cut). The big thing I see is blades.

    Blade rant - if I see a dull blade, pencil, grinder disk etc., you are fired. I see carpenters that don't even take care sharpening there pencil. I like Diablo for skilly and sawzall and Tenryu for chop and table.

    I always have extra in the trailer. It is so easy with Amazon Prime to just get more backstock when you are getting low.

    Fasteners - Who ever said GRK is speaking my language. Pre-drill (2 step frequently), countersinks, forstners, seperate set of everything not for framing lumber.

    After 20 years, people know my game. By the time the trim carpenters show up it better be looking for like a house and less like a dumpster. I'll show up on Sunday, clean the house and email you a bill. I'll be back 7am Monday rolling out. Same with snow shoveling, I'll be the most expensive shoveler and laborer in the County. I don't care. Lumberyard...yeah, I'll go...it is $100 a trip minimum.

    I laugh when I GCs think they are on it but by the time I'm done with the first walkthough they realize they are not that awesome. On big custom houses, I offer 2 man days of free punch carpentry before drywall. Look at and fix all the R/O, put in backing for all the bath hardware, stair rail etc. The only contractors that take me up on it are the ones that actually understand, they laugh and say "I woulda done that but go for it".

    But yeah, some people love me. Some people hate me. I think it is weird when people don't let me show them what I've learned with 20+yrs. trim experience. "How wide is your casing?" "Yeah that's not gonna work there" "It'll look fine" "Really, on a $2million house your not gonna own that fuck up, either move that R/O or order a smaller door, the drywallers gonna be back for something, I'll do the change order framing for free."

    It's like people get offended when I expect them to use their brain at work.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rossland BC
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    1,879
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    We are almost there...not enough "being a dick" however.

    This isn't a bad deal for those that want to feel the smug https://festools-online.com/205604-f...8aAsR9EALw_wcB

    Vic, what's the fascination with the jig saw? I have a cordless yellow and a plug in blue. The Bosch never makes it out of the garage. I just don't view a jiggy as a finish tool. I'm either gonna use a pullsaw, sander, file, shaper etc. to work up to the line (knife cut). The big thing I see is blades.

    Blade rant - if I see a dull blade, pencil, grinder disk etc., you are fired. I see carpenters that don't even take care sharpening there pencil. I like Diablo for skilly and sawzall and Tenryu for chop and table.

    I always have extra in the trailer. It is so easy with Amazon Prime to just get more backstock when you are getting low.

    Fasteners - Who ever said GRK is speaking my language. Pre-drill (2 step frequently), countersinks, forstners, seperate set of everything not for framing lumber.

    After 20 years, people know my game. By the time the trim carpenters show up it better be looking for like a house and less like a dumpster. I'll show up on Sunday, clean the house and email you a bill. I'll be back 7am Monday rolling out. Same with snow shoveling, I'll be the most expensive shoveler and laborer in the County. I don't care. Lumberyard...yeah, I'll go...it is $100 a trip minimum.

    I laugh when I GCs think they are on it but by the time I'm done with the first walkthough they realize they are not that awesome. On big custom houses, I offer 2 man days of free punch carpentry before drywall. Look at and fix all the R/O, put in backing for all the bath hardware, stair rail etc. The only contractors that take me up on it are the ones that actually understand, they laugh and say "I woulda done that but go for it".

    But yeah, some people love me. Some people hate me. I think it is weird when people don't let me show them what I've learned with 20+yrs. trim experience. "How wide is your casing?" "Yeah that's not gonna work there" "It'll look fine" "Really, on a $2million house your not gonna own that fuck up, either move that R/O or order a smaller door, the drywallers gonna be back for something, I'll do the change order framing for free."

    It's like people get offended when I expect them to use their brain at work.
    I don’t know how I did without a track saw (I have the Makita), but I’m often working in remote locations and love the idea of a cordless model. The M18 Fuel Milwaukee impact driver is pretty faultless, often driving long (up to 3/8” x 16”) GRK structural screws (in the cold, wet, and dirt) without issue, but if I was starting from scratch that Festool package looks pretty sweet.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    8,713
    I don’t know how I did without a track saw (I have the Makita)
    Same way you did without a Fein Tool, you didn't know any better. You clamped levels, knifed your cuts, tool 5mins to make a skills cut etc. I've got 2 now, one for framing. You can make a new factory edge on plywood. Save money (3/4 CDX is $50) and make your shit look tight! You should also router your window and door R/Os [dick]

  7. #57
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Mt. Baker
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    1,754
    I'm a big fan of Festool... Its expensive, but in general you get what you pay for, but to truly appreciate it for what it is you need to learn to understand the system and invest in it. Buy once, cry once. Plus the amount of money its saved me in it's accuracy and lack of fuck ups I would make without the system has more than paid for its self. Not to mention for the cost of having custom cabinets done for just one room of my house, I was able to invest in the full system and have better built stuff.

    Milwaukee also makes some great cordless stuff for the money.

    For bigger shop tools, Sawstop is the cats meow for table saws, but any cabinet saw by one of the major mfg's is good these days. Its all about how you outfit it. Mine has a DRO plus a Incra fence system for my router table.

    Dont be afraid of 3phase tools either, a VFD isn't that expensive these days, is easy to set up and gives you more control than you would have without one.

    For drill presses most of the modern stuff is junk. I'd look for an old used industrial one, or better yet do what I did and buy a Bridgeport mill. For vices Wilton bullet vices are the best of the best. The are still expensive used, but are worth every cent. For hand tools I really like Nepros ratchets, snap on sockets, PBSwiss for screwdrivers. Once you invest in really good hand tools you will find you never have to deal still stripping a faster head ever again.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The land of Genesee Cream Ale and homemade pierogies!
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    2,105
    User this site for price comparison shopping:

    https://www.directtoolsoutlet.com

    Main brands are Ryobi, Ridgid and Milwaukee. Both new and re-conditioned. A few brick and mortar stores in outlet centers.
    “The best argument in favour of a 90% tax rate on the rich is a five-minute chat with the average rich person.”

    - Winston Churchill, paraphrased.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,274
    router your window and door RO's..
    Ha. I dont always do this and used to kinda laugh about the debate but after seeing way too many people do such absolutely abysmal cut-outs I will concede this point. Unfortunately with so many hacks out there I'm actually more surprised that the RO is actually correct size that I'm less concerned how clean their plywood cut out is... shit if the kids can keep their fucking bags on I consider it a win lately.

  10. #60
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    Oct 2008
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    The Fish
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    Totally uneducated on this and don't do this for a living, what's the benefit of routing your window and door RO's?
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  11. #61
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    Feb 2013
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    2,620
    And what the fuck is an RO? Helped build my own house(poorly, see earlier advice about dealing with halfassed building inspectors) and I'm stumped.

  12. #62
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    Feb 2008
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    Alpental
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_B View Post
    And what the fuck is an RO? Helped build my own house(poorly, see earlier advice about dealing with halfassed building inspectors) and I'm stumped.
    Rough Opening
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eluder View Post
    Totally uneducated on this and don't do this for a living, what's the benefit of routing your window and door RO's?
    Applying modern flashing products
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  14. #64
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    Feb 2005
    Posts
    19,201
    NSFW, but relevant:


  15. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    17,748
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Yes you can crosscut on a table saw--if you have a full size saw with extension wings and make a sled for larger pieces, but crosscutting anything large on today's contractor's saws is not practical, and even for small pieces the miter gauge is pretty flimsy. If I need to cross cut something and don't have my chop saw I just use a circular saw with a speed square and a blade with a lot of fine teeth (and make sure the bad side is up).
    You may still need extensions on a chop saw for long pieces. The only thing I see needing a chopsaw for is if you're doing a lot of moulding/trim work...and frequently. Otherwise for me a chopsaw just sits around gathering dust.

    Instead, for about $140-ish get this. It's a solid miter fence.
    https://www.incra.com/miter_gauges-miter1000hd.html

    I got rid of my chopsaw after I got this. It can miter a joint on the table saw to within 0.5 degree.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  16. #66
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    May 2007
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    Mt. Baker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    You may still need extensions on a chop saw for long pieces. The only thing I see needing a chopsaw for is if you're doing a lot of moulding/trim work...and frequently. Otherwise for me a chopsaw just sits around gathering dust.

    Instead, for about $140-ish get this. It's a solid miter fence.
    https://www.incra.com/miter_gauges-miter1000hd.html

    I got rid of my chopsaw after I got this. It can miter a joint on the table saw to within 0.5 degree.
    I have the big brother too that Incra fence, and I still use my miter saw 90% of the time as it produces less dust and is way faster to setup. The Incra is handy for those really wide pieces.

  17. #67
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    You may still need extensions on a chop saw for long pieces. The only thing I see needing a chopsaw for is if you're doing a lot of moulding/trim work...and frequently. Otherwise for me a chopsaw just sits around gathering dust.

    Instead, for about $140-ish get this. It's a solid miter fence.
    https://www.incra.com/miter_gauges-miter1000hd.html

    I got rid of my chopsaw after I got this. It can miter a joint on the table saw to within 0.5 degree.
    I built dozens of pieces of furniture, cabinets, a staircase, and thousands of feet of trim without a chop saw, so I can't argue that it's a necessity. It certainly doesn't deserve to be the first piece of machinery someone buys. But it's nice to have. I have a Dewalt with the Dewalt mobile cart that has extensions.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I built dozens of pieces of furniture, cabinets, a staircase, and thousands of feet of trim without a chop saw, so I can't argue that it's a necessity. It certainly doesn't deserve to be the first piece of machinery someone buys. But it's nice to have. I have a Dewalt with the Dewalt mobile cart that has extensions.
    Personally I would start with a track saw and good chop saw and skip the table saw. I built most of the cabinets in my house with that combo before I purchased a table saw. Hell you could do almost everything with just the tracks, but time is money. I still only use the cabinet saw for ripping really thin stock, and do most of the cutting with the chop saw / track saw combo. Maybe I would feel differently if I had a shitty chop saw. The track saw can't be beat for breaking down sheet goods too. The only other thing that I feel would be a must have would be a really good router table setup and if you are doing lots of cabinets or furniture the Festool Domino is worth its weight in gold.

  19. #69
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    Sep 2018
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    ^^^ router table < shaper

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  20. #70
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    Feb 2008
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    Alpental
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunder View Post
    Personally I would start with a track saw and good chop saw and skip the table saw. I built most of the cabinets in my house with that combo before I purchased a table saw. Hell you could do almost everything with just the tracks, but time is money. I still only use the cabinet saw for ripping really thin stock, and do most of the cutting with the chop saw / track saw combo. Maybe I would feel differently if I had a shitty chop saw. The track saw can't be beat for breaking down sheet goods too. The only other thing that I feel would be a must have would be a really good router table setup and if you are doing lots of cabinets or furniture the Festool Domino is worth its weight in gold.
    The Domino is tits I use it for a lot of different ways
    Click image for larger version. 

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    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  21. #71
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    Jun 2006
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    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    I dunno, I'm a tool guy. If there is one that makes my life easier, more efficient, higher quality, fun etc. I'm gonna own it. I tend not to respect tradesman that don't respect their tools or spend money on the right one for the application.

    Its a big part of the problem with blue collar work in this country. The workers want to be respected but they don't even respect their craft. It has gotten so bad that many guys don't even know what a tight job looks like. Clean up...every day...really all the time. Act like every 1/16 maters...because it does. Strive to make every single thing you do look awesome. Be self critical and aware. Try for process improvement every time you do something..."how did I do it last time, did it work, was it efficient, what could be better".

    Without fail, the dudes bitching are the ones working for bottom of the barrel generals wading around in their own 7/11 mess hacking is up with shitty tools, showing up late.

    I work on houses that cost $1,000 a sq. ft. They better be awesome and that's on the contractors that build them.
    As a building hack, I can respect this. I just sent the better part of two years on the job site nearly every day for our fire rebuild. I saw the this quality attitude in nearly ever sub on the job. Our GC has this attitude as well, so only works with subs who do the same. While not 1K/sq, we did nearly everything custom, especially when it came finish work. I hung with the finish guys a lot just to learn as much as I could and was impressed with how they did things and how clean the left the jib site each day. They took pride in their work, and I pretty much gave them free reign to do it. They had a blast and got to do things they rarely get to do. We built a craftsman style and used a lot of Greene and Greene ideas. No two casings are on the same plain, there is not a single 45 degree miter, scarf joints, walnut pegs (1" ebony was not an option) etc. I've known my GC for 30 years, and their speciality is working on old classic houses, and making it look like they were never touched when they are done. They have done additions and remodels on all Greene and Greene houses here in Ventura county, so are craftsmen of the highest caliber. You get what you pay for.

    I will be putting up a final TR soon on my Thomas fire burn thread. Today is moving day, but like most builds there are a few odds and sods to finish up. Many of my cabinet pulls are still on a ship somewhere. The house turned out petty damn nice, IMHO

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  22. #72
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    ^ Congrats. Looking forward to the TR.

  23. #73
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    Sep 2017
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    Vermont
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    Bosch Jig saw is amazing.

    I have a makita circular saw corded thats great, and a rigid octane 18v thats only ok. When you need cord free its the best thing ever to have handy, but it will bog down cutting thick wood, or with the slightest twist if you are cutting quick and slopping. That said, the adjustments are so much better than my basic makita, I would prioritize that in my next circular saw purchase.

    I've only used dewalt chop saws but would buy again.

    I have rigid brushless impact driver, hammer drill and drills, they are pretty good. The batteries and power are fantastic, but the rubber is kinda peeling after our second home reno.

    I have a Kobalt portable table saw that is actually great for the money. As mentioned though, a track saw would be better for cutting big materials, rather than a portable table saw. I see the need for both though in my future.

    All the cutting tools, it must be said have decent, purposeful blades on them, its probably what makes them good to be honest.

    My Makita compact compressor is amazing, works fine with my cheap porter cable nailers, which are just ok, im sure theres better, but I dont care for my purposes.

    My Dewalt orbital and palm sanders are workhorses that have survived years of jobs that they probably shouldnt be doing. (corded of course)

    Things I have an hate:
    Rigid brushless, corded trim router. It overheats frequently, and I have to take breaks in the projects im on and put it in the fridge. I probably work it too hard for its intended purposes, but I feel like an old cheap craftsman should not out perform this. Not sure who makes the best routers.

    Anything Ryobi is always a waste. I bought a belt sander, thinking they are simple, corded tools. My Dad had one that lasted forever (when they were blue). Motor burnt out after 2 days of use tapering some plywood. Spent time and money for home depot to fix it since I hate throwing things out, broke again after less than an hours use. Want to buy a makita when the project comes up. Theres a few other tools that made it through 1 project, and then the motors burnt out.

  24. #74
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    For the amateur considering buying tools I highly recommend figuring out what you want to make first and buy the tools you need to make it. Then when you want to make something that you can't make, or can't make easily or well with the tools you have, buy what you need for that job. Avoid aspirational tool buying. As you can tell from this thread there are a lot of opinions on what tools to buy. A lot of it comes down to what kind of work the person usually does. and also whether they're professional or amateur. For the professional time is money; for the amateur it's not, so spending a lot of money to save time doesn't make that much sense for the amateur.

  25. #75
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    May 2015
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    inw
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    For the amateur considering buying tools I highly recommend figuring out what you want to make first and buy the tools you need to make it. Then when you want to make something that you can't make, or can't make easily or well with the tools you have, buy what you need for that job. Avoid aspirational tool buying. As you can tell from this thread there are a lot of opinions on what tools to buy. A lot of it comes down to what kind of work the person usually does. and also whether they're professional or amateur. For the professional time is money; for the amateur it's not, so spending a lot of money to save time doesn't make that much sense for the amateur.
    you just (probably) saved me a ton of $ spread over a few years. good, simple logic.

    but aspirational ski buying still ok, right?

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