WASATCH STOKE, CONDITIONS, OBSERVATIONS and ASSORTED DRIVAL 20-21

[Burney]

I am as excited as everyone else to start sliding on snow, but in some ways I am ok with the first two storms underdelivering this season... Anyone who's taken an avy class knows early snow followed by high pressure systems leads to facets that screw us in Dec and Jan. I am still only a 2 year newb to the Wasatch and BC but it is certainly the least snow I have seen for late October. What are everyones thoughts? Is this an abnormal early season?

[mall walker]

idk fall is variable. sometime around thanksgiving the faucet will turn on. hopefully all of the current stuff melts enough not to be a weak layer, but given the forecast I’m not even bothering to go scout my early season zones yet... lot of melting still to happen before it really starts to snow.

[Burney]

idk fall is variable. sometime around thanksgiving the faucet will turn on. hopefully all of the current stuff melts enough not to be a weak layer, but given the forecast I’m not even bothering to go scout my early season zones yet... lot of melting still to happen before it really starts to snow.

Ya looks high and dry for the next two weeks. Would be sweet if it stays that way then dumps mid November.

[syruptraps]

Ya looks high and dry for the next two weeks. Would be sweet if it stays that way then dumps mid November.

Was thinking the same thing. Good thing is that it's cold enough for at least a little bit of snowmaking to be happening in the mean time.

[Boissal]

The only benefit of early season snow is that it gets all the kooks excited and they blow their loads early. By March you can't get them to STFU about biking and the need for dry trails while everything is filled to the gills and the BC is deserted. The Wasatch is a giant granite minefield, no point trying to shred it until December, especially when the season happily stretches into May (or much later for a few people on here).

[Burney]

The only benefit of early season snow is that it gets all the kooks excited and they blow their loads early. By March you can't get them to STFU about biking and the need for dry trails while everything is filled to the gills and the BC is deserted. The Wasatch is a giant granite minefield, no point trying to shred it until December, especially when the season happily stretches into May (or much later for a few people on here).

Amen to that brother

[Lone Star]

bbbbrrrrrrrooooooooo

[westoxified]

bbbbrrrrrrrooooooooo

Amen to that Broseph

[Burney]

Amen to that Broseph

broseph that to amen

[telefreewasatch]

Sure enjoying tweener season this year.
Between new body parts and a relatively empty range...
Man these hills got loved to death this summer.
Seems likely they'll get the same this winter.
Hope that courtesy and good backcountry habits prevail.
Help newbies out with acceptable advice, not just harsh criticism.

Love conquers hate

[wasatch_carpetbagger]

I am as excited as everyone else to start sliding on snow, but in some ways I am ok with the first two storms underdelivering this season... Anyone who's taken an avy class knows early snow followed by high pressure systems leads to facets that screw us in Dec and Jan. I am still only a 2 year newb to the Wasatch and BC but it is certainly the least snow I have seen for late October. What are everyones thoughts? Is this an abnormal early season?

There is something incoming around the 7th - 10th. Looks like a strong system but with low precip.

[Boissal]

Help newbies out with acceptable advice, not just harsh criticism.
Love conquers hate

Words to live by.

My experience with offering advice to noobs (and not-noobs alike), be it on skis or while climbing, has been excessively negative though. I tend to keep my mouth shut unless there's something truly concerning or plain silly going on (gri-gri threaded backwards, back-clipping 3 bolts in a row, a skier about to drop in blind on top of someone I happen to know is down there out of sight on a super sluffy day, or people about to ski away while still in walk mode or with a skin on, etc...).
Despite what my online behavior may suggest I always approach these situations in as friendly a manner as possible with no hint of sarcasm/condescension/holier-than-thou attitude. And yet, the response has always been negative, ranging from being completely ignored to snarky replies to just being told to fuck off.

It's as if people can't handle being told that they may be doing something wrong or may be missing something in the big picture. Especially noobs who appears to be terrified that someone may find out they're noobs and do their best to hide it by using the most techgnar lingo and endlessly spraying about obscure named runs they're going to slay while stepping on their tails at every kickturn and rolling off the skinner every 200'.
Again, I don't get it. I would love to be told that I still have a skin on when I'm about to TGR my way down something. I would very much want to be told that someone noticed shooting cracks down the slope I'm about to ski. And I sure as fuck demand to be told that I threaded my grigri backwards. I can live with being wrong, being embarrassed, being ignorant, and the world knowing about it. I don't want to be in a situation where my arrogance got someone hurt or worse. Tell me when I'm being an idiot or doing something wrong please. I may not like it but I'll (secretly) thank you later.

Noobs and crusty experienced people: heed warnings, take advice.

[Phall]

The social media culture and the ability to appear like an expert, or more importantly, the lack of willingness to admit/accept that they are in uncharted territory (literally and figuratively) leads to these negative interactions. I've seen it too, experienced it too, and god forbid you're a man and you're trying to provide advice to a few women in the bc these days. It will be an interesting season, and I sure hope people are smart, listen to advice, and reserve judgement.

[Dantheman]

Despite what my online behavior may suggest I always approach these situations in as friendly a manner as possible with no hint of sarcasm/condescension/holier-than-thou attitude. And yet, the response has always been negative, ranging from being completely ignored to snarky replies to just being told to fuck off.

Probably a side-effect of the French accent I've always assumed you have

[John_B]

stepping on their tails at every kickturn and rolling off the skinner every 200'.

I've been bc skiing for a decade and some days I feel like this describes me to a T. It must be one of those high gravity days.

[Boissal]

The social media culture and the ability to appear like an expert, or more importantly, the lack of willingness to admit/accept that they are in uncharted territory (literally and figuratively) leads to these negative interactions. I've seen it too, experienced it too, and god forbid you're a man and you're trying to provide advice to a few women in the bc these days. It will be an interesting season, and I sure hope people are smart, listen to advice, and reserve judgement.

I think you nailed it. The whole concept of mentorship is gone with so much information floating out there. Who needs to learn from an actual person when you can skim across 5 websites and become an e-expert? The lack of feedback from an actual human is clearly a major issue in that system though and allows people to convince themselves that they have mastered the topic then get extremely bent out of shape when you ask them a question and they realized they just can't answer it.
Having a mentor to constantly tell you that you're gonna die tenderizes your ego enough than subsequent callouts don't hurt as much and you can just take them for what they're worth: feedback, not criticism. Valuable or not, it's definitely worth listening to. You never know when you might learn something...

Probably a side-effect of the French accent I've always assumed you have

To Ms Boissal's greatest disappointment I somehow did not retain any of my obnoxious accent. Just every other obnoxious aspect of being French, of which there are many!

I've been bc skiing for a decade and some days I feel like this describes me to a T. It must be one of those high gravity days.

I make it a point to have a few of these days per season, preferably when lots of people are out on a popular skinner. I particularly enjoy falling off a steep kickturn into deep snow in front of a crowd. Gotta be a kook sometimes and laugh about it, skiing is supposed to be fun!

[TG]

good stuff. You should take the crux of these last few posts and start a new thread. Too interesting and valuable and applicable to all BC travel this year to be hidden in a regional thread.

[snowaddict91]

Its bigger than backcountry skiing, or even the outdoors as a whole. Mentorship seems to be a lost art in today's society, from both a mentor and mentee standpoint.

Back on topic, anyone taking advantage of the snowmaking at Alta? I've seen a few marketing shots on IG, but looking at the weather, I think I'm bringing my bike next week.

[mall walker]

I think you nailed it. The whole concept of mentorship is gone with so much information floating out there. Who needs to learn from an actual person when you can skim across 5 websites and become an e-expert? The lack of feedback from an actual human is clearly a major issue in that system though and allows people to convince themselves that they have mastered the topic then get extremely bent out of shape when you ask them a question and they realized they just can't answer it.
Having a mentor to constantly tell you that you're gonna die tenderizes your ego enough than subsequent callouts don't hurt as much and you can just take them for what they're worth: feedback, not criticism. Valuable or not, it's definitely worth listening to. You never know when you might learn something...

I pointed out one time to a splitboarder who could not make it up a perhaps 5º incline that their skins were on backwards and they tried to tell me that they like it that way because it's smoother lol

[brutah]

Again, I don't get it. I would love to be told that I still have a skin on when I'm about to TGR my way down something. I would very much want to be told that someone noticed shooting cracks down the slope I'm about to ski. And I sure as fuck demand to be told that I threaded my grigri backwards. I can live with being wrong, being embarrassed, being ignorant, and the world knowing about it. I don't want to be in a situation where my arrogance got someone hurt or worse. Tell me when I'm being an idiot or doing something wrong please. I may not like it but I'll (secretly) thank you later.

Noobs and crusty experienced people: heed warnings, take advice.

I think people may be taking your advice but I wouldn't expect a stranger or anyone to be overly gracious/thankful about it. You said it yourself "I may not like it, but I'll (secretly) thank you later." I don't imagine anyone takes unelicited advice from a stranger well. Shit, I'll be on a trail run and some stranger will say "nice job" and I fucking hate them for it, it has nothing to do with their words of encouragement but that my mind is currently in the pain cave.

And I'm not saying don't speak up if someone is about to hurt themselves or others, just do so humbly because its likely a humbling experience for that person and most are pretty touchy in those situations.

[jtran10]

The men who say "nice job" to women out doing something active are the ones you need to watch out for. In the backcountry, but also as a general rule.

[Boissal]

I think people may be taking your advice but I wouldn't expect a stranger or anyone to be overly gracious/thankful about it. You said it yourself "I may not like it, but I'll (secretly) thank you later." I don't imagine anyone takes unelicited advice from a stranger well. Shit, I'll be on a trail run and some stranger will say "nice job" and I fucking hate them for it, it has nothing to do with their words of encouragement but that my mind is currently in the pain cave.

And I'm not saying don't speak up if someone is about to hurt themselves or others, just do so humbly because its likely a humbling experience for that person and most are pretty touchy in those situations.

Good points.
The distinction I was trying to make was between not really responding to unsolicited feeback (ie not engaging, ignoring it, or brushing if off with a "sure, thanks") but internalizing it for what it's worth versus getting visibly butthurt and defending yourself as if you were being insulted by someone just trying to be helpful. It's hard to find the right tone to deliver a message and people will receive it however they please.

I do the former, as you pointed out I don't enjoy being told I'm doing something wrong, being sketchy, or simply doing something dumb and turning myself into a laughingstock.* I've seen plenty of people take it really poorly though and fly off the handle as if their mom had been called horrible names then proceed to do exactly the opposite of what was being discussed as a point of honor. It usually resulted in the predicted consequence though which led to more rage when their hear laughter and chorus of "I told you so" (fortunately I haven't yet warned someone of something bad and have said bad thing happen despite the warning, in that case I wouldn't laugh or gloat about being right).

Bottomline: nobody lights criticism or unwanted feedback, even if it's well deserved and valuable. People are mortified at the thought of being wrong about something and lash out, understandable but dumb. I got that bad habit kicked out of me through several experiences in life and I benefit from it daily.

* Example: a few years back I was on top of Superior on a pow day after winning the rat race. I had asserted my dominance over the crowd of early-rising noobs by catching up to them on the skinner, kindly pointing out that they had gone on the super sketchy side of the Black Knob (that particular day) but it was an easy mistake to make on their first time in the dark, then taking over the booter-setting duty and redlining everyone into oblivion. I had told them they could have 1st tracks if they wanted to, not because I'm nice but because Sup has plenty of room and I'd rather deal with people below me than above, so I waited. Once at the top they asked me to go first since they were spooked. I obliged and decided to show my mad skills by hucking the small cornice straight into the face them making classy giant turns while the marvel at the sight. Then I hear someone tell me to watch for a windlip. What windlip? As if I needed warnings about windlips, big deals like me don't care about such things, we just plow through them, who does this noob think he is telling me to watch out, I'm gonna show you and... BAM, double eject to face plant into a huge lip I had no idea was there. Two beautiful red Lotus 120s sticking straight ouf of a vertical snowbank and my snowy face looked back up at 7 people cracking up, pointing fingers, clapping their thighs, just mercilessly mocking me. It was embarrassing as fuck when noob #1 piped in with a well deserved "told you" but I had to laugh it off, fighting all of them for my honor would have required me to posthole back up to the top. I survived the humiliation and learned a lesson about listening to people who have a better view of the slope.

The men who say "nice job" to women out doing something active are the ones you need to watch out for. In the backcountry, but also as a general rule.

Did that a few times with Ms Boissal early on. Learned my lesson real fast. Now I keep my trap shut even if what she's doing is legit hard by anyone's standard. I'll usually compliment her on something badass once we're back home a few hours later. In the heat of the moment? It's a whippet to the neck type deal...

[criscam]

The men who say "nice job" to women out doing something active are the ones you need to watch out for. In the backcountry, but also as a general rule.

agreed. I believe the correct compliment is "nice job...for a girl".

[muted]

Don't waste any time caring how people take shit the wrong way if you are polite and reasonable. Egos should be crushed, not coddled.

And some people who give advice have their ego bruised too when their polite advice is ignored. And who here posted a long time ago he was annoyed some people asked what he found condition-wise skiing or while digging a pit? Mind blowing ridiculousness. Personally I can barely get anyone in the Wasatch to say hi to me, never mind offend them.

[telefreewasatch]

Wow. Lotta good discussion.

TG this problem is unique to the Wasatch.

Muted, what is it with folks that not only don't say hi, but don't even look at you.

Boissal, respect for your thoughts and feelings. Good stuff.

So, for me, the crux of the issue is that before giving "advice" to strangers one must examine motives for why one is giving said advice.
Are your panties in a bunch because you are in competition with people you don't know over a line / powder?
Or is safety at stake.
If safety is at stake then one is morally obligated to speak.
So give thought to your delivery if it matters.
I've been around long enough to regret not speaking up.
More than once.
Hope I have learned...love your brother.