WASATCH STOKE, CONDITIONS, OBSERVATIONS and ASSORTED DRIVAL 20-21

[F#*k you cat]

I blame IKON

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[teleee]

I said it before. Ask yourself who stands to gain? Gond =i Snowbird reason= Olympics plus the land holders at La Caille.

Road widening UDOT. Plus Wadsworth construction or who ever wins the bidding process.

As a skier I just want to recreate in our public land.



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How exactly does UDOT benefit? As a bridge contractor I can see how the contracting community benefits, but UDOT, I dont see it... They will remain the same entity regardless.

[Dantheman]

"I question whether we need a public investment to support two ski resorts," Wilson told the Tribune. "... Might we be better off to just work with the Forest Service to put in some limits and accept that there's 10 days a year when the snow is really coming down, the risk is too high and we just close the resorts? That, to me, is a better alternative."

More liberal use of road closures would certainly accomplish the public safety goal without spending half a billion dollars of public money. The resorts wouldn't even have to close, Alta and Snowbird could make that decision for themselves and bring in more lodging revenue by advertising the increased probability of country club days. I'd be opposed to using public money to build the Jazz a new arena, too. This would be a much different issue if the funding was coming from Alta and Snowbird. Sure, that would probably require them to raise their ticket and pass prices considerably, but people here say all the time that they'd happily pay more if it reduced the crowds.

On Tuesday a very reliable source informed me that there were two significant medical events during last season's multi-day closure that could have ended badly. It would be a terrible tragedy if someone died who would have lived if they could have been evac'ed and taken to IMC. On the other hand, that can also be considered an inherent risk of being up-canyon in the winter. Pre-COVID 30 million people took cruises every year and effectively assumed the exact same risk when they stepped on board.

jen should be more worried about how much monies lettin her po po sic their dogs on unarmed compliant suspects is gonna cost her city and yeah maybe a few homeless peeps issues
can she even see the canyon from her office or even shed the sik gnars

She's the mayor of Salt Lake County.

[Canada1]

Remember all the uproar about ski link. Where are those people now?



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I was vocally against Ski Link. I see it as a different issue than this. Ski Link involved a lift system across undeveloped land between resorts. If they had run it through the public corridor, I wouldn't have been against it. It was the fact that they were attempting to take the peoples land rather than deal with any headache of having to get access from private parties on the already developed land that made me dislike it. I anticipate the Gondolla would run up along the roads. For me that is very different than ski link. I don't think a Gondolla will work. It's carrying capacity is too low for the amount of people targeting one time start and finish to their day. I wouldn't want to drive, get out of my car, wait through an hour line to then take a gondola to the mountain, to then buy a pass, and get in another line to ski. The busses can be targeted to the morning rush, with dozens their at key times. A gondola can't double or triple it's occupancy for the two hours it's needed.

All of that said, I am not heavily invested in this one. Ski link was running through an area I recreate in a lot.

[Phall]

I was vocally against Ski Link. I see it as a different issue than this. Ski Link involved a lift system across undeveloped land between resorts. If they had run it through the public corridor, I wouldn't have been against it. It was the fact that they were attempting to take the peoples land rather than deal with any headache of having to get access from private parties on the already developed land that made me dislike it. I anticipate the Gondolla would run up along the roads. For me that is very different than ski link. I don't think a Gondolla will work. It's carrying capacity is too low for the amount of people targeting one time start and finish to their day. I wouldn't want to drive, get out of my car, wait through an hour line to then take a gondola to the mountain, to then buy a pass, and get in another line to ski. The busses can be targeted to the morning rush, with dozens their at key times. A gondola can't double or triple it's occupancy for the two hours it's needed.

All of that said, I am not heavily invested in this one. Ski link was running through an area I recreate in a lot.

I agree. I've been keeping an eye on the public land access portion of this, and as of now, it appears to be unchanged (with the exception of tolling private vehicles). Now, if we see that the gondi tower bases will be installed on public, and have big, fenced off areas around them (preventing eco-terrorism or whatever) or lead to blockages of major wildlife corridors, etc, it will become an even harder "no" for me. Right now the "no" from me is coming purely out of a publicly funded project to help private entities succeed financially, and the NIMBYism of not having a gondi (view impact wise) up LCC. I think there is lots to be done before this alternative, as has been already discussed, but, I've been here for a decade, and while the traffic increases, the amount of times I've had my tires checked driving up LCC on a storm day or restricted day still hovers ~1-3x year max.

[F#*k you cat]

How exactly does UDOT benefit? As a bridge contractor I can see how the contracting community benefits, but UDOT, I dont see it... They will remain the same entity regardless.

UDOT has priced in 11 million of O and M for 30 years. Project managers will directly bene plus UDOT will get a percentage of the total project cost. Consider 10 percent of half a billion.

Pocket chance right.



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[teleee]

UDOT has priced in 11 million of O and M for 30 years. Project managers will directly bene plus UDOT will get a percentage of the total project cost. Consider 10 percent of half a billion.

Pocket chance right.



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If they dont get it there, they will spend it elsewhere, I deal with them a lot, they just dance where the legislature (a whole different discussion of benefits there and most likely what you really mean) tells them to dance. UDOT does NOT give a shit about pushing any one potential project over another. In fact if you were to have an honest conversation over cocktails with the higher ups they would tell you they would just as soon stay out of the canyons completely.

[jtran10]

I still don't get why we can't just try checking people's tires when it snows. The longer I think about this the more dumb and unnecessary it becomes, especially as a publicly funded project.

[Dantheman]

I still don't get why we can't just try checking people's tires when it snows. The longer I think about this the more dumb and unnecessary it becomes, especially as a publicly funded project.

Yeah, the more I think about it the solution is to enforce traction laws, close the canyon a few more days per year, and raise season pass and day ticket prices 2-3x. That doesn't get Snowbird an Olympic event though....

But, you know what, fuck it. I need to emotionally divest myself from this. By the time it's all built I may not even live here.

[jtran10]

By the time it's all built I may not even live here.

Haha same

[schindlerpiste]

Yeah, the more I think about it the solution is to enforce traction laws, close the canyon a few more days per year, and raise season pass and day ticket prices 2-3x. That doesn't get Snowbird an Olympic event though....

But, you know what, fuck it. I need to emotionally divest myself from this. By the time it's all built I may not even live here.

Ding! This is the solution. Also, I guess it depends how much growth UT really wants. Although I became a full time resident after 2002, I can say with certainty that the towns/cities of the Wasatch have changed since the olympics. I can argue that growth from that olympic event was a good thing for the most part. Going forward, I don't think that future Olympic Games here beneficial to anyone. Infrastructure concerns (except the facilities/venues themselves) are already stretched past their intended uses.

[mall walker]

By the time it's all built I may not even live here.

just make sure to post constantly in the thread to remind people that you used to ski at alta

[teleee]

just make sure to post constantly in the thread to remind people that you used to ski at alta

And that the food is much better in your new digs...

[snowaddict91]

I don't get it. Don't y'all know you can just get up earlier to beat the traffic?

[skifishbum]

some remanence
some gotta roganense

[HammySlapwagons]

I still don't get why we can't just try checking people's tires when it snows. The longer I think about this the more dumb and unnecessary it becomes, especially as a publicly funded project.

This is pretty much my stance. The canyon traffic isn't a big enough of an issue that warrants spending $500+ million on.

[jtran10]

It sounds like the tram club may be closed forever? Anyone have more intel on this?

Maybe they're bulldozing it to make way for a gondi station

[Phall]

Someone come slather me in cheese and franks while i sob, not a happy fry-day hearing that news.

[jtran10]

Word is snowbird didn't renew the lease, will reopen under snowbird management in september, likely higher prices, new name, more corporatization.

[snowaddict91]

Word is snowbird didn't renew the lease, will reopen under snowbird management in september, likely higher prices, new name, more corporatization.

I heard the same, though second hand and not super reliable source.

My favorite slopeside bar in Crested Butte also announced they are closing up shop for good this week.

Fuck this shit.

[Buster Highmen]

Right now the "no" from me is coming purely out of a publicly funded project to help private entities succeed financially.

Isn't tax money to maintain the road up LCC similar?
Maybe make it a toll road with cost inversely proportional to the number of passengers?

[Phall]

not entirely, in my opinion, as its a state highway accessing national forest, same could be said for Mirror lake highway, etc, however those aren't dead ends.

I support maintaining state highways in NF areas to keep public access. The LCC road allows you to stop at any trailhead you choose and get into the woods, the gondi will only stop at alta and snowbird.

[123ski]

Even in Switzerland where there are trams and gondolas everywhere, very few if any (I can only think of one and it is short) are used for primary transportation.

Gondolas that can move 1,000 people per hour are not solutions for transporting people efficiently.

The bus vs gondola debate is a false choice. That dichotomy was only created because UDOT only looked at solutions that involved moving more people up little cottonwood canyon. Nobody seems to be asking the real question, of what are we trying to solve for, of which there could be many:

1. More skiers at snowbird and Alta
2. Less traffic in little cottonwood canyon
3. Safer transport options during storms
4. Egress during avalanche cycles
5. Resort Access during avalanche cycles
6. Canyon access during avalanche cycles
7. Etc
8. Etc

Right now it seems like #1 is the highest priority, and if that is the case then let snowbird and Alta pay for it on their own.


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[happytimefunbox]

It sounds like the tram club may be closed forever? Anyone have more intel on this?

Maybe they're bulldozing it to make way for a gondi station

Someone come slather me in cheese and franks while i sob, not a happy fry-day hearing that news.

Word is snowbird didn't renew the lease, will reopen under snowbird management in september, likely higher prices, new name, more corporatization.

I heard the same, though second hand and not super reliable source.

My favorite slopeside bar in Crested Butte also announced they are closing up shop for good this week.

Fuck this shit.

I was just up there last night thirsty for a tramclub special and can confirm it was closed. Went up the road to The Gulch pub at the Snowpine and the bartenders there said it was closed for good.

This makes me sad in the pants...

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[Buster Highmen]

Even in Switzerland where there are trams and gondolas everywhere, very few if any (I can only think of one and it is short) are used for primary transportation.

There are many that move skiers from areas with at most a runout up into the actual ski zones.
Schruns: Kropfenbahn, Zamangbahn.
Klosters: Gotschnabahn
Madrisa: Madrisabahn
Fiesch
Betten
Morel
Eggbergen
Biel-Kinzieg
Klewenalp
Stoos
among lots of others.

Gondolas that can move 1,000 people per hour are not solutions for transporting people efficiently.

The bus vs gondola debate is a false choice. That dichotomy was only created because UDOT only looked at solutions that involved moving more people up little cottonwood canyon. Nobody seems to be asking the real question, of what are we trying to solve for, of which there could be many:

1. More skiers at snowbird and Alta
2. Less traffic in little cottonwood canyon
3. Safer transport options during storms
4. Egress during avalanche cycles
5. Resort Access during avalanche cycles
6. Canyon access during avalanche cycles
7. Etc
8. Etc

Right now it seems like #1 is the highest priority, and if that is the case then let snowbird and Alta pay for it on their own.

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I would have thought the goal was to get more people out of their cars and less CO2 output.

As DTM points out, the gondy alternatives still have slightly more total CO2 output than the bus because they include cars in each. If cars were discouraged by tolls, that might address the environmental goal.

Whatever the real goals may be, if it is just more people accessing LCC, the environmental benefits may just be a fake rationale.

It would be nice to be able to get up there rather than sit in line at 6:30am. It's a mess now.