WASATCH STOKE, CONDITIONS, OBSERVATIONS and ASSORTED DRIVAL 20-21

[east or bust]

Lost a hiker on Raymond today. Older guy. He had summited it around 70 times with his partner that survived.
The poor guy that survived was a wreck. He was in the front and heard a yell and looked back and his buddy was rag- dolling into Mill A. You never know when your time is up...

Fuck.

Thanks for doing what you do, many of us couldn’t.

[zion zig zag]

Lost a hiker on Raymond today. Older guy. He had summited it around 70 times with his partner that survived.
The poor guy that survived was a wreck. He was in the front and heard a yell and looked back and his buddy was rag- dolling into Mill A. You never know when your time is up...

Are you guys still all voli? Seems like your system is busy enough to go paid at this point?

[Dantheman]

Lost a hiker on Raymond today. Older guy. He had summited it around 70 times with his partner that survived.
The poor guy that survived was a wreck. He was in the front and heard a yell and looked back and his buddy was rag- dolling into Mill A. You never know when your time is up...

Damn. Saw SAR at Butler driving to up to ride last night and was hoping it wasn't too serious.

Seems like your system is busy enough to go paid at this point?

This needs to happen.

[tgapp]

Lost a hiker on Raymond today. Older guy. He had summited it around 70 times with his partner that survived.
The poor guy that survived was a wreck. He was in the front and heard a yell and looked back and his buddy was rag- dolling into Mill A. You never know when your time is up...

Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck.

So sorry you guys have to deal with this. What a tough year - seems like bad luck all around.

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[mc_roon]

https://littlecottonwoodeis.udot.utah.gov/draft-eis/

[NBABUCKS1]

and a good video that goes along with it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeXfDblNZfE

[jtran10]

Adding a bus lane still the clear winner in my mind

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[CirqueScaler]

Benneke and I spent our Sunday planning our '21-'22 pow skiing show reel.

Here he is overlooking the scythe in wolverine cirque:

[skifishbum]

thanks for the update
cant believe
we rode our bikes and skied grannies on 9/ 1 of 11

well be lucky if there is any snow left at all in the cirque come aug

[Dantheman]

Adding a bus lane still the clear winner in my mind

It's clearly the best alternative. I can't support the gondola alternative when it will only move 1,000 ppl/hr. The mobility hubs also get gutted in the gondola alternative which I can't support.

[Canada1]

It's clearly the best alternative. I can't support the gondola alternative when it will only move 1,000 ppl/hr. The mobility hubs also get gutted in the gondola alternative which I can't support.

Bus lane with carpool minimum of three or four passengers judiciously enforced gets my vote.

[Dantheman]

Bus lane with carpool minimum of three or four passengers judiciously enforced gets my vote.

The vid says single-occupancy vehicle restrictions and/or tolling are "being explored." Personally, I think vehicle occupancy restrictions should be implemented by the resorts, not by UDOT at the mouth of the canyon.

[Benneke10]

UDOT's current favored option to limit single occupancy vehicles is to charge a toll for all parking above White Pine, so trailhead users don't need to pay the fee.

[jtran10]

A bus solution should also allow them to do something with BCC as well, right? At least all of the transit hubs should be able to be used for both canyons, regardless of a bus-specific lane in BCC.

[jtran10]

UDOT's current favored option to limit single occupancy vehicles is to charge a toll for all parking above White Pine, so trailhead users don't need to pay the fee.

Alta "trailhead" parking not included because it's not enforceable whether you're a resort skier or using trails/backcountry?

[Benneke10]

Alta "trailhead" parking not included because it's not enforceable whether you're a resort skier or using trails/backcountry?

Alta "trailhead" users would still have to pay because they will have the option of full service from the gondola or bus, unlike other TH users.

[jtran10]

Alta "trailhead" users would still have to pay because they will have the option of full service from the gondola or bus, unlike other TH users.

Ahh that makes sense then

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[Dantheman]

UDOT's current favored option to limit single occupancy vehicles is to charge a toll for all parking above White Pine, so trailhead users don't need to pay the fee.

That's entirely reasonable. Any idea if the toll will apply in summer and other non-congested times?

[Benneke10]

That's entirely reasonable. Any idea if the toll will apply in summer and other non-congested times?

The proposed toll would be in effect thru the lift season

[Tri-Ungulate]

Almost wish they would toll throughout the year if they're gonna, seeing as summer can be as much of a clusterfuck as winter, at least in BCC.

[Boissal]

Almost wish they would toll throughout the year if they're gonna, seeing as summer can be as much of a clusterfuck as winter, at least in BCC.

Agreed. Driving up and down the Cottonwoods this summer is damn near as bad as it is in the winter. The slick road problem is replaced by the narrow road problem with endless waiting behind people trying to park at the S curves or stopping in the 7 sisters to take pics. The dog population has exploded too, I've seen dozens of people walking leashed canines up there who seem to be genuinely surprised when I warn them about the fine. Some get super defensive about it and I've taken to calling dispatch because fuck them if they can't take a friendly warning.
I'd pay hundreds of $$ a year to get up there if it had a chance to make a difference.

[Dantheman]

Agreed. Driving up and down the Cottonwoods this summer is damn near as bad as it is in the winter. The slick road problem is replaced by the narrow road problem with endless waiting behind people trying to park at the S curves or stopping in the 7 sisters to take pics.

As proposed a toll won't fix issues at locations below the resorts like S-Curves and 7 Sisters. While summer is crowded at certain places a certain times I can't say I've ever sat in a miles-long red snake or seen parking gong shows that are on par with winter. I still maintain that what has done the most to degrade BCC in the summer was paving the Wasatch County side of Guardsman--there's shitloads of thru-traffic now. The commercial Crest shuttles are a somewhat-distant second.

The dog thing is mind-doggling, can't say I've seen that myself beyond isolated incidents. I've often wondered how much enforcement actually occurs. I can see Alta Central being tight about that, but UPD can't even be bothered to enforce winter traction laws so I can't see them giving a shit about dogs even when they see one.

[tgapp]

Agreed....I'd pay hundreds of $$ a year to get up there if it had a chance to make a difference.

I have very mixed feelings about this, as I think that fundamentally, public lands should be kept public. Paying a significant toll essentially serves as a flowgate to keep low-income and minority families from enjoying these places. If there was an implementable way to employ a sliding scale fee structure, I'd pay out of my ass if it made a difference, but if a fee kept families from using these places (which certainly happens in Millcreek), then I would encourage alternatives that limit traffic and impact while still preserving access to low-income members of the community.

[Benneke10]

Driving up and down the Cottonwoods this summer is damn near as bad as it is in the winter.

Anyone who skis at resorts on weekends would disagree with you

[NBABUCKS1]

and here is the slick gondola works video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa-3pFNQeVM