WASATCH STOKE, CONDITIONS, OBSERVATIONS and ASSORTED DRIVAL 20-21

[tgapp]

i have two tickets to brighton i can't use

anyone want em??

[brutah]

i have two tickets to brighton i can't use

anyone want em??

I like skiing. PM sent

[Todds]

I’m pretty sure it’s a fixed fee plus amt ($40-70) per skier day. Each resort negotiates their own deals so they are all different. But as said before they get paid out based on projection and a true up is done periodically based on skier visits.


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If Ikon is paying $40-70 plus a flat fee to 44 resorts how can they make money if someone uses it more than 10 or so times? Are they just rolling the dice hoping the average person only uses it a few times?

[jackattack]

If Ikon is paying $40-70 plus a flat fee to 44 resorts how can they make money if someone uses it more than 10 or so times? Are they just rolling the dice hoping the average person only uses it a few times?

Ikon is limited to 3, 5, or 7 days at partner resorts, depending on the initial cost.

[TheK12]

Based on the poached data from Snowbird for the month of February they averaged 1019 IKON skiers per day. On only nine of the 28 days were there more than 1200. Season pass days exceeded IKON for the month by 20% and day tickets was close to IKON. Correct me if this is wrong but my understanding is SB has substantially more skiers than Alta.

It is shocking that after three years of the IKON pass there does not seem to be a consensus as to how a resort gets paid.

Interesting numbers, especially that day tickets are about the same as IKON pass holders.

How many daily visits at Alta/Snowbird?

[altacoup]

IMO both Ikon and Epic pass pricing is a long term game. Alterra and Vail are setting the price on their passes low. This in turn prevents independent ski areas from raising their pricing to increase revenue, as the comparative value of a cheaper multi resort pass is higher for many skiers. The daily pay out gets people to ski at the independent (associated) resorts but hamstrings their ability to operate revenue streams independently. The long term goal of both alterra and vail is to force resorts into selling to one or the other, by cornering the market on season pass pricing. This is all total conjecture on my part but seems to make sense.

[Tiktaalik]

IMO both Ikon and Epic pass pricing is a long term game. Alterra and Vail are setting the price on their passes low. This in turn prevents independent ski areas from raising their pricing to increase revenue, as the comparative value of a cheaper multi resort pass is higher for many skiers. The daily pay out gets people to ski at the independent (associated) resorts but hamstrings their ability to operate revenue streams independently. The long term goal of both alterra and vail is to force resorts into selling to one or the other, by cornering the market on season pass pricing. This is all total conjecture on my part but seems to make sense.

This.

Also, ban ikoners from using the 210 a la big sky tram. Bus only.

[wasatch_carpetbagger]

If Ikon is paying $40-70 plus a flat fee to 44 resorts how can they make money if someone uses it more than 10 or so times? Are they just rolling the dice hoping the average person only uses it a few times?

Ski areas are a low marginal cost business. While an ikon swipe of 40-70 is lower than they would otherwise make on day tickets, its still profitable.

I was drafting a whitepaper on horizontal mergers in the industry two years ago but got lazy and never finished. Might have to revisit that....

Some interesting articles on the subject:

The Ikon and Epic Passes Are Great for Ski Buffs. Until They’re Not - Bloomberg
Epic vs. Ikon: Battle for the Best Ski Pass - Bloomberg
It Was a Huge Year for Ikon, the Ski Pass Locals Love to Hate - Bloomberg
Actually, the Mega Season Pass Is Killing Skiing | Outside Online

[Lone Star]

Re: Ninas etc

That whole face isn't "natural" and is the result of the mining activities decades ago. They already got rid of the mine tailings and smoothing the whole thing out would probably restore it to a lot closer to its pre-settlement condition, if you're into the whole "natural" thing.

My opinion on those runs changed a couple of weeks ago when I was teaching my preteen nephew how to ski. Skiing Collins was the big prize at the end of the trip and all of it was stress free except for Corkscrew which was terrifying for me and ended up in a high speed close call that scared the shit out of me. Now I am all for making that spot a little more intermediate friendly and I have a harder time opposing it on environmental grounds knowing that man made erosion caused and continues to affect those gullies. How many spruces are in there? Looks like we're going to lose most of the piss firs in the next few years, anyway...

[1thenaton1]

My understanding of how Ikon/Epic works is that the revenue generated by the sale of the pass is divided among the resorts the skier visits during the year, less a fee from Ikon/Epic. I.E. BeaterX purchases Ikon pass for $700, skis 4 days at Snowbird and 2 at DV, Snowbird gets $400, DV $200 and Ikon keeps $100. Those numbers are made up to demonstrate a revenue spit. The reimbursement per day for an Ikon skier who skis frequently would be very low.

[Todds]

My understanding of how Ikon/Epic works is that the revenue generated by the sale of the pass is divided among the resorts the skier visits during the year, less a fee from Ikon/Epic. I.E. BeaterX purchases Ikon pass for $700, skis 4 days at Snowbird and 2 at DV, Snowbird gets $400, DV $200 and Ikon keeps $100. Those numbers are made up to demonstrate a revenue spit. The reimbursement per day for an Ikon skier who skis frequently would be very low.

This is how I imagined it would work.

[bigdude2468]

My understanding of how Ikon/Epic works is that the revenue generated by the sale of the pass is divided among the resorts the skier visits during the year, less a fee from Ikon/Epic. I.E. BeaterX purchases Ikon pass for $700, skis 4 days at Snowbird and 2 at DV, Snowbird gets $400, DV $200 and Ikon keeps $100. Those numbers are made up to demonstrate a revenue spit. The reimbursement per day for an Ikon skier who skis frequently would be very low.

I was told that resorts have a choice, as stated above or they get a flat rate for each skier visit based on Alteraa having historical data on how many days are typically skied on a pass.

A couple of years ago Katz in a Q&A with a Denver newspaper refused to answer the question "what % of passes you sell are not used" I bet the number of passes that are used less than five times is much higher than anyone would expect.

[jtran10]

I was told that resorts have a choice, as stated above or they get a flat rate for each skier visit based on Alteraa having historical data on how many days are typically skied on a pass.

A couple of years ago Katz in a Q&A with a Denver newspaper refused to answer the question "what % of passes you sell are not used" I bet the number of passes that are used less than five times is much higher than anyone would expect.

especially epic passes

[JongDoe]

My understanding of how Ikon/Epic works is that the revenue generated by the sale of the pass is divided among the resorts the skier visits during the year, less a fee from Ikon/Epic. I.E. BeaterX purchases Ikon pass for $700, skis 4 days at Snowbird and 2 at DV, Snowbird gets $400, DV $200 and Ikon keeps $100. Those numbers are made up to demonstrate a revenue spit. The reimbursement per day for an Ikon skier who skis frequently would be very low.

I highly doubt that is how it works for a couple of reasons. First off, I would think a big advantage to getting season passes is getting the guaranteed money up front for cash flow purposes. Unlikely that resorts are going to wait until the end of the season to get paid.

Second, who is auditing that and how? How would a specific resort know how many visits other resorts had? It is rife for cooking the books. Prices are higher at certain resorts. Also, some resorts have unlimited and some 5 or 7 days. So unlimited Solitude is making out big time if they get paid based on visits and getting a bigger piece of the pie?

[tuco]

^^^Solitude is owned by Alterra. They ARE the people selling IKON passes

[JongDoe]

True, but it still doesn't sound right for the other reasons.

[snowaddict91]

I heard they added they extra dollar at the Tram Club for Alterra to get their cut.

[Vets]

The amount Alta, Snowbird, and Brighton resorts get from Alterra/Ikon is Two Dollars!

[TheK12]

The amount Alta, Snowbird, and Brighton resorts get from Alterra/Ikon is Two Dollars!

Two dollars. Cash.

[Shaaarrrp]

Question-sorry if it's been covered here ad nauseum already:

I know it's been said you can't add on Jackson/Aspen if you get the AltaBird base pass but is that definitely true? Per the Alta website, you receive two separate passes and I'm not sure that the ikon website would even know the difference, which would be necessary to prevent the upgrade option. Alta seemed to think you would be able to add but referred me to Snowbird. The Alta website says the pass doesn't include Jackson/Aspen but also doesn't imply you couldn't add it for $.

[wasatch_carpetbagger]

Question-sorry if it's been covered here ad nauseum already:

I know it's been said you can't add on Jackson/Aspen if you get the AltaBird base pass but is that definitely true? Per the Alta website, you receive two separate passes and I'm not sure that the ikon website would even know the difference, which would be necessary to prevent the upgrade option. Alta seemed to think you would be able to add but referred me to Snowbird. The Alta website says the pass doesn't include Jackson/Aspen but also doesn't imply you couldn't add it for $.

I know that on the Ikon website it was an option for me to upgrade, but that option was removed at some point. I believe someone here said that they did exercise that option, but that the upgrade was later canceled and refunded.

[Shaaarrrp]

Anyone skiing Soli or Brighton today? Looks like it could be fun!

[wasatch_carpetbagger]

Anyone skiing Soli or Brighton today? Looks like it could be fun!

About to head up to alta - I like what im seeing on the cams

[Shaaarrrp]

Have a great day! Would head up there but I only got one day left....thinking tomorrow

LET IT SNOW

[jtran10]

heading up in 20 or so if anyone wants to make some turns