Snow in the PNW 20-21: We may have Corona but Corona doesn't have us!

[altasnob]

Most cable ways also include a maintenance road to the top as well. And all lands in Oly and Rainier park are wilderness except the roads, lodges, and like 50 feet from the road. So it would take an act of Congress to remove land from wilderness to build any kind of cable way in the parks. Has Congress ever in the history of the US removed lands from wilderness?

[Falcon3]

I worked as a ranger at Rainier during the winter, and the effort to just keep Paradise open is monumental. They simply don’t have the budget or manpower to maintain a second plowed road.

You know you can still skin up to White River and snow camp there for touring access, right?

[Buster Highmen]

Riding a bike up to WRC is bad enough, but skinning would add 2 days.
Not a good return on the investment for me since I want to be present for my family.
If the Paradise road could be kept open regularly, that would be enough for me, but I've been frustrated a number of time getting shut out there.

[ptavv]

Portapotties?

Do the A-lot bourgeois get access to the secret gleaming gilded bath house or something? Or do they have to share the Shitter Dungeon with the Ikonik broletariat?

The Claw Safeway is where those who know go

[XavierD]

NPS isn’t in charge of shit, and has little ability to effect change if they wanted to. As mentioned funding is almost non existent and they really aren’t in a place to go get more money. A bunch of citizens are though.Get a handful of reps to do a drug deal and get some money designated for keeping the camp ground open in the winter and NPS will have to jump.

[Norseman]

The Claw Safeway is where those who know go

Oh I'm familiar. It can be just as gnar, though less frequently. Then you still have to brave the Dungeon after the CM Blvd conga snake and parking goat rope takes another 90 minutes and 2 cups of coffee.

[Buster Highmen]

No love for the Nachess Tavern?
(pour one out for Slippery Creek)

[AK47bp]

Portapotties?

Do the A-lot bourgeois get access to the secret gleaming gilded bath house or something? Or do they have to share the Shitter Dungeon with the Ikonik broletariat?

One time, after a night of drinking, I stopped to pee in the trees right before the blvd and sharted my pants.


Long story shart………first time I skied with no socks.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[XavierD]

Strongly recommend keeping a small shovel and pack of baby wipes in your car/truck at all times.

[altasnob]

I worked as a ranger at Rainier during the winter, and the effort to just keep Paradise open is monumental. They simply don’t have the budget or manpower to maintain a second plowed road.

You know you can still skin up to White River and snow camp there for touring access, right?

It's 11 miles from the gate at Crystal boulevard to White River Campground one way. So your talking a two, more likely three day trip versus easy day trips if you could drive or take a shuttle in. You can also legally sled in, and people do.

Most of these proposals people throw out are going no where for all sorts of reasons. But opening the road to White River is the most logical one of all IMO. White River Campground is low elevation (4,200 ft), 200 ft lower than the base of Crystal. So while they do get snow, it's not a tremendous amount. So plowing the road to White River would be much easier than the road to Paradise. Other than Crystal Peak slide path, I don't believe there are any other slide paths in play. The road is already paved. It's not in wilderness (the road and parking lot). The parking lot has bathrooms already built. It would relieve parking congestion at all Western WA ski areas because it would attract backcountry skiers who would normally be hitting ski area sidecountry. It's close to Seattle and the 4 million people living in the area.

Because of the small parking lot and inability to expand, it would only work with some kind of shuttle service (from Greenwater or Enumclaw). But the park is already exploring this as part of their long term plan. At some point in the future, there will be some kind of shuttle service on both sides of the park (this is inevitable). People lament lack of funds but the Great American Outdoors Act is taking oil money royalties and giving them to the NPS and other federal agencies. And just raise entrance fees if necessary (the backcountry crowd would gladly pay it for increased access). The snowshoe crowd would be just as thrilled with winter access to this area.

[Falcon3]

It's 11 miles from the gate at Crystal boulevard to White River Campground one way. So your talking a two, more likely three day trip versus easy day trips if you could drive or take a shuttle in. You can also legally sled in, and people do.

Most of these proposals people throw out are going no where for all sorts of reasons. But opening the road to White River is the most logical one of all IMO. White River Campground is low elevation (4,200 ft), 200 ft lower than the base of Crystal. So while they do get snow, it's not a tremendous amount. So plowing the road to White River would be much easier than the road to Paradise. Other than Crystal Peak slide path, I don't believe there are any other slide paths in play. The road is already paved. It's not in wilderness (the road and parking lot). The parking lot has bathrooms already built. It would relieve parking congestion at all Western WA ski areas because it would attract backcountry skiers who would normally be hitting ski area sidecountry. It's close to Seattle and the 4 million people living in the area.

Because of the small parking lot and inability to expand, it would only work with some kind of shuttle service (from Greenwater or Enumclaw). But the park is already exploring this as part of their long term plan. At some point in the future, there will be some kind of shuttle service on both sides of the park (this is inevitable). People lament lack of funds but the Great American Outdoors Act is taking oil money royalties and giving them to the NPS and other federal agencies. And just raise entrance fees if necessary (the backcountry crowd would gladly pay it for increased access). The snowshoe crowd would be just as thrilled with winter access to this area.

Great points all.

The problem is that the park would need at least another rotary plow, a couple blade plows, staff to run the plows (very expensive).

Then if you have a much bigger visitor presence on the E Side you need to provide maintenance services (multiple Wage Grade employees), visitor non-protection services, plus emergency staff for when Timmy goes sledding and falls through a hole into the creek. It’s a total shit show on the West side in the winter with touron cars all over the roads and ditches, people dying all the time because they’re unprepared idiots, etc…. The SAR costs alone for opening WR would be astronomical.

It would cost a fortune to keep that road open, the National Parks have a very different obligation to protect the resource and provide services than even the Forest Service on their lands.

Fee increases wouldn’t even touch the expense.

[The AD]

The problem is that the park would need at least another rotary plow

What do they use now for the end of season plowing to Sunrise?

[Falcon3]

What do they use now for the end of season plowing to Sunrise?

I believe both rotaries are moved to the Paradise side (and they need all the plow help there they can get) They don’t just let it sit at WR maintenance yard over the winter.

[PNWbrit]

What do they use now for the end of season plowing to Sunrise?

The crews from Paradise and I believe that DOT chip in.

It's why it's always so late opening.

[altasnob]

I get it that the NPS lacks funding but it is incredibly frustrating that as our region gets more populated and wealthy (one of the wealthiest places on the planet) the access gets worse. Paradise road used to be open more regularly in Winter. Sunrise used to get plowed and open sooner in the Summer. Is this all due to lack of funding? I feel like roads that the State is in charge of plowing and opening (Chinook, North Cascades, Artist Point) have been pretty consistent with their openings, where as roads the NPS is in charge of open later, and later, and later.

[Bobcat Sig]

I get it that the NPS lacks funding but it is incredibly frustrating that as our region gets more populated and wealthy (one of the wealthiest places on the planet) the access gets worse. Paradise road used to be open more regularly in Winter. Sunrise used to get plowed and open sooner in the Summer. Is this all due to lack of funding? I feel like roads that the State is in charge of plowing and opening (Chinook, North Cascades, Artist Point) have been pretty consistent with their openings, where as roads the NPS is in charge of open later, and later, and later.

Pardon me as I don my tinfoil hat...

All this wealth may not want access. While we, as skier and mountain users want such things; they are plenty of groups that oppose such things and find ways to limit access. So at the risk of sounding like a total conspiracy kook that wandered out of the rat-flu vaxx thread; maybe some of these groups have found ways to limit access by hindering plowing efforts?

[river59]

Long story shart………first time I skied with no socks.

A call back to one of the greats...

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-shit-my-pants

[Falcon3]

A call back to one of the greats...

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-shit-my-pants

That was a wild ride

[Buster Highmen]

Pardon me as I don my tinfoil hat...

All this wealth may not want access. While we, as skier and mountain users want such things; they are plenty of groups that oppose such things and find ways to limit access. So at the risk of sounding like a total conspiracy kook that wandered out of the rat-flu vaxx thread; maybe some of these groups have found ways to limit access by hindering plowing efforts?

Look up Uberuaga Mount Rainier.

He tried to block skiers from accessing MNRP from lift served access at Crystal during their last MDP around 1999 in a completely underhanded and dishonorable way.

The most reasonable ski lift expansions are Cowboy down to Yodelin and East Peak inside the Crystal permit area.

[plugboots]

Any plumbers or electricians want to make a decent salary and live in the Methow Valley? There are three plumbers (and one has Covid), and there may be no electricians. Move to the valley, have steady work, charge basically what you want, ski.

[jackattack]

11.8” of precip over the past 96 hours at mt. baker ski area.

[XavierD]

Good for the base

[d542east]

If you zoom in you can see a touch of the white stuff at the top of the stuart range. Fantastic motivation for more bike riding. The recent rain helps too.

[riff]

I don’t have any thoughts on parking, etc. However, a few inches up there made some fun early turns a few days ago- and found a cool ice cave under the glacier too.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Bandit Man]

Riff - you continue to bring the stoke!