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  1. #1
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    Oct 2003
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    Have you ever estimated CO2 emissions from a ski trip?

    I took some awesome trips last winter and am even more thankful for that given what has transpired from March onward. After those trips I started thinking about how much carbon was involved with each activity. I wanted to know if my assumptions were anywhere close to the mark. I just saw this article pop up today which reminded me of that experiment:

    https://backcountrymagazine.com/stor...-numbers-game/


    My own estimations were surely inaccurate but at least give some idea. These are all per-person amounts that take into account only transportation be that car, plane or helicopter. For the air travel I used online emissions calculators. For helicopter travel I contacted the company I flew with and got the fuel usage for the trip.


    Ski touring trip to Hokkaido: 3,174 LB of CO2

    This includes a flight from Seattle to Sapporo with a layover, and addition domestic flight in Japan, and driving around Hokkaido in the world's smallest AWD hatchback


    7 day helicopter access lodge-based ski trip in BC: 340 LB

    Includes a drive from Seattle to Golden and return helicopter flight. The drive emitted 60% more that the flight even carpooling with 4 people



    Then I started to compare some other regular and hypothetical activities...


    A flight from Seattle to SLC: 520 LB


    Driving alone to work every day for a year: 6,674 LB

    (1 hour RT in 28mpg car)


    4 hour R/T drive to skiing: 60 LB

    carpooling with one other person in 25mpg car


    I found this to be an interesting thing to do. It made me realize that your total emissions can diverge a fair amount from what you guessed, and don't necessarily match up with how much I value something. For example, I don't car for that car-commute to work, but it can total a lot if I do it every day.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    I carry a 4' areca palm tree with me everywhere to offset some of my C02 emissions.

    #doingmypart
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  3. #3
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    No. How about methane though?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    No. How about methane though?
    I find that a large bowl of chili the night before really helps with that.

  5. #5
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    Jun 2020
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    in a freezer in Italy
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    My wife's all we have to be green and think of the planet first oh btw when do you want to fly to UT? hmm.

  6. #6
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    Oct 2003
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    I also estimated my home heating which is with natural gas and it totaled to quite a lot even with the mild Seattle winters. I’m sure that I could save a bunch with better weatherizing and/or switching to an electric heat pump.

  7. #7
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    Jun 2020
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    in a freezer in Italy
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    put some solar panels on the roof and call it good. oh yeah, seattle. but it's all about net/net and reducing electricity consumption from the grid is an effective way to lower your co2 totals too.

  8. #8
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    Dec 2012
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    The only solution is a culling of the population. And backcountry heli trips.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  9. #9
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    Jan 2008
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    The Queen City North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by ötzi View Post
    My wife's all we have to be green and think of the planet first oh btw when do you want to fly to UT? hmm.
    Same could be said for most these days.
    We all think we are smarter than the average bear but in the end we are all selfish assholes. We keep ordering from amazon but look down on Walmart, keep driving old land cruisers but scoff at ford truck driving rednecks. Think we can Build green McMansions that could house 3 families but laugh at trailers. It’s our selfishness and hubris that is our undoing.
    We all want what we want and there are 7 billion more just like us.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    813
    Quote Originally Posted by ncskier View Post
    Same could be said for most these days.
    We all think we are smarter than the average bear but in the end we are all selfish assholes. We keep ordering from amazon but look down on Walmart, keep driving old land cruisers but scoff at ford truck driving rednecks. Think we can Build green McMansions that could house 3 families but laugh at trailers. It’s our selfishness and hubris that is our undoing.
    We all want what we want and there are 7 billion more just like us.
    Mainly guilty as charged. We don't buy much or drive much (I've been bike commuting year round for 15 years -- now WFH, of course) but we fucking love flying places, which is way worse than those other behaviors. Had a heart-to-heart about it with my wife and we agreed we should start buying carbon offsets. Funny how neither of us brought up the idea of quitting int'l travel.
    Last edited by dan_pdx; 10-21-2020 at 03:25 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Montreal, Canada
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    1,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Dromond View Post
    I took some awesome trips last winter and am even more thankful for that given what has transpired from March onward. After those trips I started thinking about how much carbon was involved with each activity. I wanted to know if my assumptions were anywhere close to the mark. I just saw this article pop up today which reminded me of that experiment:

    https://backcountrymagazine.com/stor...-numbers-game/


    My own estimations were surely inaccurate but at least give some idea. These are all per-person amounts that take into account only transportation be that car, plane or helicopter. For the air travel I used online emissions calculators. For helicopter travel I contacted the company I flew with and got the fuel usage for the trip.


    Ski touring trip to Hokkaido: 3,174 LB of CO2

    This includes a flight from Seattle to Sapporo with a layover, and addition domestic flight in Japan, and driving around Hokkaido in the world's smallest AWD hatchback


    7 day helicopter access lodge-based ski trip in BC: 340 LB

    Includes a drive from Seattle to Golden and return helicopter flight. The drive emitted 60% more that the flight even carpooling with 4 people



    Then I started to compare some other regular and hypothetical activities...


    A flight from Seattle to SLC: 520 LB


    Driving alone to work every day for a year: 6,674 LB

    (1 hour RT in 28mpg car)


    4 hour R/T drive to skiing: 60 LB

    carpooling with one other person in 25mpg car


    I found this to be an interesting thing to do. It made me realize that your total emissions can diverge a fair amount from what you guessed, and don't necessarily match up with how much I value something. For example, I don't car for that car-commute to work, but it can total a lot if I do it every day.
    Pretty cool man. Reducing commuting by car to work everyday is the major low hanging fruit here to reduce CO2 emissions. Many ways to address this. COVID has definitely shown that many of us do not need to leave the house to work. Good urban design, and increasing modal shift away from cars towards more public and active transportation solutions would help. Weekend errands and recreational trips by car are on the fringe of CO2 emmission per household. Fuck airplanes and helis for fun (very much IMO). I realize there are different views on that.
    24° 06°

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Before
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    22,639
    I remember reading that airlines are more efficient in terms of carbon generation than cars for long (2000 + mile) distances, that most fuel burned is on take off.
    https://www.outsideonline.com/240388...s%20passengers.

    I did the exercise, considering driving the 4 hours (200 miles) r.t. to ski around here versus longer trips and given that I make that 4 hour r.t. around 30 times a year, it's a lower carbon footprint to drive 2000 miles r.t. where we stay 6 miles from the lift up to 3 times a year.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  13. #13
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    Jun 2020
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    Tremontaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncskier View Post
    Same could be said for most these days.
    We all think we are smarter than the average bear but in the end we are all selfish assholes. We keep ordering from amazon but look down on Walmart, keep driving old land cruisers but scoff at ford truck driving rednecks. Think we can Build green McMansions that could house 3 families but laugh at trailers. It’s our selfishness and hubris that is our undoing.
    We all want what we want and there are 7 billion more just like us.
    Spot on

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    General Sherman's Favorite City
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    I carry a 4' areca palm tree with me everywhere to offset some of my C02 emissions.

    #doingmypart
    I consider the environment before printing emails.
    I still call it The Jake.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    13,812
    The solution to pollution is dilution.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Tejas
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    The only solution is a culling of the population.
    Well, we had our shot with that this year, but it's been an abysmal failure with COVID only taking out like 0.001% of the global population. You guys getting in the way of the culling effort! Come on, man.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
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    648
    I do everything I can to cut my use of plastic but I have driven a 4runner 28000 miles in the last year with just me and my dog and some gear in the car. Think about it a lot. so dumb. At least the pandemic kept me from making any international trips this year. Don't even want to think about the impact from my trip to China and Thailand last year.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    791
    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    I consider the environment before printing emails.
    Our corporate emails used to automatically have logo placed at the end of the email stating something like "Please consider the environment before printing this message".

    Problem was, if you did need to print it the logo was big enough it almost always pushed the print job to two pages. Would have been a single page with out the logo.

  19. #19
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    Dec 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackalps View Post
    my trip to China
    I know its a big country with lots of people, but you ever run into a dude named Spook? He might be going by his Chinese name, Jingxia.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  20. #20
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by danmelon View Post
    Pretty cool man. Reducing commuting by car to work everyday is the major low hanging fruit here to reduce CO2 emissions. Many ways to address this. COVID has definitely shown that many of us do not need to leave the house to work. Good urban design, and increasing modal shift away from cars towards more public and active transportation solutions would help. Weekend errands and recreational trips by car are on the fringe of CO2 emmission per household. Fuck airplanes and helis for fun (very much IMO). I realize there are different views on that.
    I bike commuted 60+ days last year and now am WFH full time so I've saved a lot. In the future I want to WFH 1/2 time and only bike to work. Less carbon and better quality of life. What I liked best about this experiment was that it's possible to reduce carbon emissions and still get a better quality of life - not worse. Some things we do emit a lot, but are not actually important or necessarily enjoyable relative to how consumptive it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    I remember reading that airlines are more efficient in terms of carbon generation than cars for long (2000 + mile) distances, that most fuel burned is on take off.

    I did the exercise, considering driving the 4 hours (200 miles) r.t. to ski around here versus longer trips and given that I make that 4 hour r.t. around 30 times a year, it's a lower carbon footprint to drive 2000 miles r.t. where we stay 6 miles from the lift up to 3 times a year.
    Interesting - I feel similarly for the hut trip. Even with getting in a bird, the total footprint is similar or less that day-tripping from my house. I love international ski travel but there is no getting around how consumptive the flying part is.

    It was interesting to learn how little CO2 lift-served skiing can emit when the power source itself is low-emissions. I think this guy talked about it in his video.



    Quote Originally Posted by blackalps View Post
    I do everything I can to cut my use of plastic but I have driven a 4runner 28000 miles in the last year with just me and my dog and some gear in the car. Think about it a lot. so dumb. At least the pandemic kept me from making any international trips this year. Don't even want to think about the impact from my trip to China and Thailand last year.
    Things you do regularly add up. As much CO2 as flying to Japan was, I'm still amazed that car commuting to work could be 2x as much in a year.

  21. #21
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    Mar 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    I know its a big country with lots of people, but you ever run into a dude named Spook? He might be going by his Chinese name, Jingxia.
    Snowboarder. In Yueyang.
    I still call it The Jake.

  22. #22
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    Dec 2012
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    Thing with flying is, unless the other 250 people on your flight decide not to go, how are you saving CO2 yourself by not going?

    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    Snowboarder. In Yueyang.
    Yes. Shoulda mentioned that. Thanks.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  23. #23
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    Nov 2005
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    4,503
    Lift to drag ratio something angle of attack weight and thermodynamics and demand driving business decisions about flight schedules. Did that clear it up?

  24. #24
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    Nov 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    Thing with flying is, unless the other 250 people on your flight decide not to go, how are you saving CO2 yourself by not going?
    If you didn't marry your sister, someone else would have. So what's the harm?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    Thing with flying is, unless the other 250 people on your flight decide not to go, how are you saving CO2 yourself by not going?
    The total # of flights happening at a given moment and in the future are related to the total # of people who want to fly places. Demand has a relation to supply in this case. If you choose not to book a specific flight, there might be an empty seat on that plane. If the total # of flights booked goes down, there will be fewer flights. Case in point: coronavirus has resulted in fewer passenger flights.

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