Page 111 of 122 FirstFirst ... 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 ... LastLast
Results 2,751 to 2,775 of 3029
  1. #2751
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    897
    “You don’t know how to have a conversation. Discussing the studies and data that I am demanding is the lowest form of debate.”

    “I’m positive the data has never been released.”

    “I’ve never looked for the data.”

    “Everyone disputing me is just scared.”


    JFC.

  2. #2752
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    8,666
    Ego, thats what you're going with? Wow. ok just wow. They lost a lot of money, it wasn't ego.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

  3. #2753
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    8,666
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    All issues I've seen have been thoroughly tracked by the CDC and 100's of other health organizations around the world. And they're all nominal.

    But you're right. Maybe they're all fraudsters and liars. Maybe it's a giant global conspiracy where literally every single government, and every single health organization got together and universally agreed to defraud the entire population of the planet. Maybe those governments and organizations succeeded in getting the hundreds of thousands of people that were in on the fraud to keep quiet about it. And maybe there's some rational reason why every government on the planet would go along with a conspiracy to poison its entire population.

    But it seems a lot more likely that there isn't any issue with the vaccine and there's no rational reason to decline it.
    Ok well some of those things are maybes but they ARE frausters and liars. LIke that is their legal track record. Every governemnt hasn't gone along with it, its their past legal history that they have admitted to deliberatly defrauding and misleading people int he past. I wouldn't say the point is to poison people, but rather scare and steal from them.

    I get it though. You trust them. I'm not sure why they have earned your trust, but you do you. I think we're at an impasse as I dont think stats or logic will convince you distrust is a rational default setting for those who want to make money off you. Good day to you sir.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

  4. #2754
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,126
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I don't want to parse the data you moron. Its a red flag they won't show ANYONE.

    ZThere are plenty of studies out there showing masks and lockdowns reduced death rates by less than one percent. Lobbing studies at each other is a low form of conversation, and resorting to "well prove it" is indicative of not actually being able to conversate.

    My understanding is these companies have shown NO ONE the trial data. Including the fda and who.
    You really think that pfizer showed no data to any government agency, and that those agencies approved the used of these drugs with no data?

    Seriously?
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  5. #2755
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    8,666
    Quote Originally Posted by ml242 View Post
    I don't think any of us know exactly why Pfizer pulled out of India. It looks like ego to me though.

    - the Indian government asked them to trial it locally, after approving two other shots without that.
    - the shots they had approved were AZ (without those trials) + a homegrown (and that those drugs are much cheaper than Pfizer and don't have the same cold storage requirements)

    AZ is the most deadly vaccine of all and it's killed like 30 of 1.5 billion people?

    Anyway, take your conspiracies elsewhere.
    Ok, I mean you're saying that, but we don't know, because they won't release the controlled trial data. Thats why we do trials because when you use the whole world as your experiment, stats can show correlation but not causation, and you cannot be sure your data is correct. Its too big of a sample size. My dad died of heart failure two weeks after getting the vaccine and of course was not counted as a vaccine death because that cant be proved because there is no control group to measure that incidence against. god this is basic stats. Its why there are control groups. I can't say the vax had anything to do with his death, but this is why we have controlled studies.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

  6. #2756
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    22
    The good thing right now is that the restrictions are being lifted in Canada.

    I don't think I've fully trusted authorities on anything, ever. There are people who I trust much less than authorities though, especially when it comes to anything related to health care/medicine.

    ^ Sorry to hear about your dad.

  7. #2757
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    897
    The best part of this is that most of the conspiracy stuff being posted here today is likely coming from sources that similarly have a large financial incentive to keep peoples eyeballs engaged to sell ads.

  8. #2758
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    275
    https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/376/bmj.o102.full.pdf
    Looks like the Pfizer data will be released in 2025. Moderna 2022.

    Pandemic is over. Why people still care if someone is vaccinated or not is beyond me. The data for kids to get vaccinated has always been questionable. Under 5 really questionable. Supposedly to stop the spread, when the vaccine wasn’t effective at that, there should have been a hard look at it. If you’re older or unhealthy it was stupid not to get vaccinated. But it’s stupid to smoke, drink, and be fat too. And that kills a lot more than covid. Shits over, time to stop the stupid rules and masks. Open the borders, time to start living.

  9. #2759
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,126
    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    Ever consider that the virus burns through a population, but then hits a wall as it runs out of viable hosts, masks and mandates be damned?

    We aren't here to argue over Virology 101 with you, but it is comical that you're out here calling us the stupid ones.
    Yeah I understand how that works. So do health care professionals and that's why they did what they did to prevent that.

    Many more people would have died of the virus and even more would have died of something treatable because there would be no space in the hospitals.

    Way to show your true colors.
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  10. #2760
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    8,666
    Quote Originally Posted by teletech View Post
    https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/376/bmj.o102.full.pdf
    Looks like the Pfizer data will be released in 2025. Moderna 2022.

    Pandemic is over. Why people still care if someone is vaccinated or not is beyond me. The data for kids to get vaccinated has always been questionable. Under 5 really questionable. Supposedly to stop the spread, when the vaccine wasn’t effective at that, there should have been a hard look at it. If you’re older or unhealthy it was stupid not to get vaccinated. But it’s stupid to smoke, drink, and be fat too. And that kills a lot more than covid. Shits over, time to stop the stupid rules and masks. Open the borders, time to start living.
    Thank you. I had seen that, but honestly it just drags me the fuck down to be reduced to a link fetcher. I don't feel like putting energy into people who cannot have a discourse.

    Yea, I embraced my social responsibility and distanced while being unsure about the vaccine. I am still unsure about it, and its been years and blacklisting people from society for the forseeable future is rediculous when the economy and our social order are both struggling. I haven't been anti vax, I've been hesitant, but at this point it just seems like we can just move on and like perhaps not fighting each other might be more important but what do I know. I honestly do not get the anger at people who don't trust the shots, it seems like a very black and white thinking either you are trusting science or you're a crazy conspiracy theorist when it reality the science just seems murky and most importantly unkown.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

  11. #2761
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,722
    RE: India

    https://news.yahoo.com/india-govt-wo..._YG9J2ilsdjWLj

    The Indian government has also declined to meet the U.S. companies' requests for legal protection over any side-effects from the use of their shots, which are currently made only in the United States or Europe, two of the sources said.

    No company has received such protection in India.

    "The government will not buy Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. They are free to have private tie-ups after necessary regulatory clearances. But sovereign indemnity is clearly something we can't give".


    This article indicates that Pfizer wouldn't receive blanket immunity from India, so they took their ball and went home, in the middle of a pandemic. LOL

    Skipping out on billions in profits because their feet would be held to the fire like any other manufacturer? Thats what the good guys do? Someone jump in and carry the water for good guy Pfizer here.

  12. #2762
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    8,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    Yeah I understand how that works. So do health care professionals and that's why they did what they did to prevent that.

    Many more people would have died of the virus and even more would have died of something treatable because there would be no space in the hospitals.

    Way to show your true colors.
    Suicides rose during this. Violent crime, tickets for speeding, traffic accidents, even tickets for driving without a seatbelt. Of course substance issues and overdose deaths. Hard to even find all the categories to collate and arrive at an accurate sum total. The thing is I get the pandemic is scary etc, but to hear people talk in support of how its been handled is so strange to me and feels like they are trying to convince themselves. Don't get why its hard to just have a nuanced conversation. Everything being so black and white seems very strange for a situation that is absolutly anything but.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

  13. #2763
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by teletech View Post
    https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/376/bmj.o102.full.pdf
    Looks like the Pfizer data will be released in 2025. Moderna 2022.

    Pandemic is over. Why people still care if someone is vaccinated or not is beyond me. The data for kids to get vaccinated has always been questionable. Under 5 really questionable. Supposedly to stop the spread, when the vaccine wasn’t effective at that, there should have been a hard look at it. If you’re older or unhealthy it was stupid not to get vaccinated. But it’s stupid to smoke, drink, and be fat too. And that kills a lot more than covid. Shits over, time to stop the stupid rules and masks. Open the borders, time to start living.
    A friend working in the ICU cares a lot, and for their sake I care to.

  14. #2764
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    8,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    RE: India

    https://news.yahoo.com/india-govt-wo..._YG9J2ilsdjWLj

    The Indian government has also declined to meet the U.S. companies' requests for legal protection over any side-effects from the use of their shots, which are currently made only in the United States or Europe, two of the sources said.

    No company has received such protection in India.

    "The government will not buy Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. They are free to have private tie-ups after necessary regulatory clearances. But sovereign indemnity is clearly something we can't give".


    This article indicates that Pfizer wouldn't receive blanket immunity from India, so they took their ball and went home, in the middle of a pandemic. LOL

    Skipping out on billions in profits because their feet would be held to the fire like any other manufacturer? Thats what the good guys do? Someone jump in and carry the water for good guy Pfizer here.
    What variable factored into that risk assessment that would loom larger than the money they lost? yes. that is the question. Not to mention that their actions inspire mistrust of them.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

  15. #2765
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    8,666
    Quote Originally Posted by ski_it View Post
    A friend working in the ICU cares a lot, and for their sake I care to.
    I'm sorry your friend works to help people in a predatory system and is overhwelemd and overworked. We should do something about that. Certain things need to be protected from capitalism to have a free society I think.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

  16. #2766
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    897
    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    RE: India

    https://news.yahoo.com/india-govt-wo..._YG9J2ilsdjWLj

    The Indian government has also declined to meet the U.S. companies' requests for legal protection over any side-effects from the use of their shots, which are currently made only in the United States or Europe, two of the sources said.

    No company has received such protection in India.

    "The government will not buy Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. They are free to have private tie-ups after necessary regulatory clearances. But sovereign indemnity is clearly something we can't give".


    This article indicates that Pfizer wouldn't receive blanket immunity from India, so they took their ball and went home, in the middle of a pandemic. LOL

    Skipping out on billions in profits because their feet would be held to the fire like any other manufacturer? Thats what the good guys do? Someone jump in and carry the water for good guy Pfizer here.
    VICP.

  17. #2767
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I'm sorry your friend works to help people in a predatory system and is overhwelemd and overworked. We should do something about that. Certain things need to be protected from capitalism to have a free society I think.
    They want to get back to helping people recover from heart surgery, hip replacements and other such ailments...getting a bit tired of the same old for the past 2 years....As you say, if only there is was a way to do something about that...

  18. #2768
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    275
    My wife works in the hospital. Been getting a $500 extra per shift. They have averaged 2 covid patients a day for the last month or so. And one of those patients got covid at the hospital and is still there because they don’t have a bed for her at a nursing home. Why because they fired the LNA’s who would work for $12 wiping someone’s ass, who already got covid the first round and survived. Also a ton of patients that let their ailments go, because they were afraid of covid at the hospital or the hospital was closed. The mismanagement of covid definitely caused as much if not more issues than the actual disease.
    I don’t feel bad for my wife, she’s happy to get the extra money. Being a healthcare worker is hard, covid or no covid.

  19. #2769
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,722
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    Yeah I understand how that works. So do health care professionals and that's why they did what they did to prevent that.

    Many more people would have died of the virus and even more would have died of something treatable because there would be no space in the hospitals.

    Way to show your true colors.
    True colors?

    You called us stupid, then followed up with arguably the dumbest statement/question in all 111 pages of this thread which showed a clear lack of understanding of the basic principle of how viruses spread through a population.

    But yes, keep interpreting scientific data and its effects on public health policy for the rest of us.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	EhClvGZXkAI8Puz.jpg 
Views:	76 
Size:	141.2 KB 
ID:	406048

  20. #2770
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7,665
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    What variable factored into that risk assessment that would loom larger than the money they lost? yes. that is the question. Not to mention that their actions inspire mistrust of them.
    The variable you're looking for is excess production capacity. Super simple decision if you don't have that, even simpler if the price in other places is higher than India. Maybe they should invest in more capacity, but that would be a pretty nuanced discussion.

    Speaking of which, do you believe there are studies showing that lockdowns didn't reduce deaths? And if so, which trusted source told you to believe that?

  21. #2771
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    sandy, sl,ut
    Posts
    8,666
    Quote Originally Posted by ski_it View Post
    They want to get back to helping people recover from heart surgery, hip replacements and other such ailments...getting a bit tired of the same old for the past 2 years....As you say, if only there is was a way to do something about that...
    Yea if there were a jonas salk today, someone trustworhy giving away their vaccine for free with the efficacy trasnaparacny and side effect rate of the polio vaccine thatd be fucking awesome.

    Your simplification of the situation tugs at the heartstrings of course, but the vaccines are not the variable that will fix her job at this point. this is endemic and not because of the unvaxxed, Theres solid data showing natural immunity is higher than the vaxxed.

    Again, the people who controlled the way this was handled are the people that made money off it and while probably not just pure poison, the approach was far from perfect, and more transparancy to begin with could have shown us that.The people who made money off the lockdowns are the same ones making money off her employment and ultimatly setting her salary and earnings expectancy which dictates how well staffed hospitals are. She can direct her anger at the unvaxxed. I'm sure if we'd all just gotten in line the data would be clear. Oh wait. No control group then.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

  22. #2772
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7,665
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    Yea if there were a jonas salk today, someone trustworhy giving away their vaccine for free with the efficacy trasnaparacny and side effect rate of the polio vaccine thatd be fucking awesome.
    Funny you should mention them, since they've given it to India specifically. Polio takes 4 shots, by the way.

  23. #2773
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    12,233
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    Suicides rose during this. Violent crime, tickets for speeding, traffic accidents, even tickets for driving without a seatbelt. Of course substance issues and overdose deaths. Hard to even find all the categories to collate and arrive at an accurate sum total. The thing is I get the pandemic is scary etc, but to hear people talk in support of how its been handled is so strange to me and feels like they are trying to convince themselves. Don't get why its hard to just have a nuanced conversation. Everything being so black and white seems very strange for a situation that is absolutly anything but.
    Clearly there are downsides to lockdowns and social distancing measures. I don't think anyone's arguing that there aren't. There are also benefits - reducing covid deaths. And there is absolutely a worthwhile discussion to be had as to where the appropriate balance of that dynamic is. And, of course, that discussion will change as the threat of covid changes and the negatives associated with masking and social distancing measures become more pronounced. It seems like a majority these days favor eliminating or at least heavily relaxing most social distancing measures.

    But the vaccine is different. There are clearly upsides, and there's no discernible downside. You can fearmonger and fret about conspiracies all you want, but at the end of the day, billions of people are vaccinated without any noteworthy downside.

  24. #2774
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    5,126
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    What valid points? That he is scared and the vaccines have some efficacy. I'm not sure what other points anyone is making other than trying to tell me to prove stats. I get you guys are scared and the shots do seem to have some efficacy. I'm honestly not sure what other valid points are being made. Please do point them out to me?

    If you beleive people shouldn't be forced to take these expeiriemtnal drugs, why are you arguing with me? Seriously? Just bevcause I disagree with you about other things and you're bothered by my backwardws thinking or hyposcracy or however you perceive it? LIke it seems like if you doj't beleive in coercing people to do things and blacklisting them from society for not feeling good about this, the conversation doesn't really have to go much further, because that detail seems like the most important point in all of this.

    Yes, there are many powers in the world that vie for control while agreeing with each other that a more authoritarian world is what they want. I agree with you about that. I worry about the death of truth coming more from the criminalization and stigmatization of dissent which is absolutly going on. There will always be ignorant people that think they aren't. That doesn't scare me as much as them being manipulated and turned against each other, but ok, yea I get you fear your fellows and their ignorance more than the global trend towards authoritarianism.
    I honestly don't know why I keep engaging with people who think like you do, but for some reason I keep trying in hopes I can reach someone.

    I'm arguing with the way you think as much as your specific conclusions. And the reason I'm doing that is that people who know more than me (and you) on this subject have assured me that these measures are better for me an all of society than doing nothing. I'm not coercing you, I'm trying to explain to you why your thinking is flawed.

    https://www.britannica.com/science/D...-Kruger-effect

    You find it easier to believe that every government is cahoots to control you than the believe than the educated opinions of people who are actually knowledgeable on the subject... not internet knowledgeable... like, PhD knowledgeable.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Occams-razor

    You say people who get vaccinated are afraid but your irrational thinking pattern sounds much more scared than I am. It's completely irrational and it's like you WANT to believe you are being persecuted and the entire world has conspired to do this. The possibility of that being true and nobody who is in on the scam letting it slip out is literally zero.

    Summary: "You don't know everything and not everybody is out to get you."

    If you can't accept that universal truth then I give up.
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  25. #2775
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    897
    Leroy - Huge assumption on my part: since you think the management of the pandemic is “far from perfect” and that vaccines should not be administered due to the reasons you have previous cited can you outline what a “perfect” or nearly perfect or even a better response would look like?

    I’m frankly not interested in hearing about what is “wrong” but rather what should have been done. I understand your position and actually agree with you on the negative effects of some of the mitigation measures.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •