Pieps Beacons under fire

[Meadow Skipper]

Pieps offering “an upgrade.”
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGlBzHUlNL7/

[~mikey b]

I would call it that.

[SKIP IN7RO]

the Micro upgrade

[BCMtnHound]

I wear mine screen in too, but the other way around. Then you can see the flashing red light to visually confirm its in send mode while it's in the harness.

The buckle over the lock button if you wear it screen out does seem problematic - never occurred to me to wear it that way because of the curvature of unit and harness but apparently other people do.

When I have used the harness (seldom), this is also how I have inserted the beacon. I like to see the little flashing light to confirm the unit is active (send or receive, I haven't checked THAT detail, never considered it until now). But mostly I have placed it in my pocket, which I won't trust anymore.

I love the circular search radius, the intuitive display that is backlit so I can see it in poor light. The scan function to determine number of burials within each specified radius has served me extremely well in certification and practice. And the screw-sealed battery cover. As well as the other pro options like frequency drift check, clinometer, etc.

So far the lock button and switch work as intended on both my pro and the wife's sport after 4seasons use. When inserted in the harness face in and top up, I can depress the lock button and move the slider, but I agree that particular circumstance would be a crazy unique event in the event of an avy, but I no longer trust the beacon in just my pocket.

If an upgrade to their newest models(s) with the sliding lock is made, even with a nominal cost, I would take them up on the offer. My warranties are done this winter so an upgrade was in the plan regardless.

[Eluder]

When I have used the harness (seldom), this is also how I have inserted the beacon. I like to see the little flashing light to confirm the unit is active (send or receive, I haven't checked THAT detail, never considered it until now). But mostly I have placed it in my pocket, which I won't trust anymore.

I love the circular search radius, the intuitive display that is backlit so I can see it in poor light. The scan function to determine number of burials within each specified radius has served me extremely well in certification and practice. And the screw-sealed battery cover. As well as the other pro options like frequency drift check, clinometer, etc.

So far the lock button and switch work as intended on both my pro and the wife's sport after 4seasons use. When inserted in the harness face in and top up, I can depress the lock button and move the slider, but I agree that particular circumstance would be a crazy unique event in the event of an avy, but I no longer trust the beacon in just my pocket.

If an upgrade to their newest models(s) with the sliding lock is made, even with a nominal cost, I would take them up on the offer. My warranties are done this winter so an upgrade was in the plan regardless.

This is exactly were I stand with my pro... The biggest problem I have is I wear it every day I ski and put it my pocket many days... use to anyway...

[Danno]

Pieps offering “an upgrade.”
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGlBzHUlNL7/

WTF does that mean?

[Falcon3]

WTF does that mean?

Exactly. They put out the statement that they didn't care and wouldn't be doing anything, saw the backlash, then put out this "upgrade" Insta post with no details, no acknowledgement of a problem (except the squeamishness of their customers). I was a big Pieps fan, having used my old DPS for 9 years, but I'm not stoked about their response to this at all.

[adrenalated]

WTF does that mean?

I emailed them and will report back.

[3PinGrin]

In that video, the user has inserted the beacon into the harness face out so that the lock switch is easier for him to depress, then he simultaneously moves the switch.
Such a series of deliberate actions could achieve a similar result with many other switch designs.
And his actions in that video are not a realistic simulation of what could actually happen in real use.
I'm not saying that the switch design is infallible, but that video is extremely contrived.

My perspective is the video demonstrates that if you put the beacon in the harness as demonstrated by the photo in the owner's manual, the female end of the buckle assembly rests right on top of the switch release. The very switch release that appears to be the problem not being engaged properly. So maybe an unlikely scenario, but I wouldn't be so bold as to say it couldn't happen in real use. The video demonstrates that the pressure to depress the switch was too light according to ISBD, not that this is inevitably going to happen. The point wasn't "you are all going to die", the point was "don't follow the pic in the owner's manual because there is a chance the switch could be depressed due to the buckle location and potentially allow it to slide out of send mode". I find the video more informative than contrived because the video demonstrates the point the poster was making.

[alpinevibes]

I emailed them and will report back.

Same Same.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Re-posting this (with a couple added sentences) from the other Pieps button thread:

Another video (the person in the video is me).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e2atL2zKM5p3XDWRA

This time I put it in the harness with the screen facing my body (even though the user manual shows the beacon in the harness screen-out). Then I rubbed the whole thing firmly against my ribs. This was enough to unlock the switch and move the slide out of the lock position. Then I slid it into the off position. The sequence is important here. I did not slide the switch while depressing the lock against my ribs. I slid the switch afterwards. Rubbing it against my ribs was enough to depress the lock and move the slide enough that it did not re-lock itself. I repeated this result 8 times before recording the video.

In my opinion applying the right kind of pressure to unlock the switch while touring is a realistic scenario. And bumping that switch into OFF at some point over the next 10,000 steps is also not outlandish. Will it happen every time out. Of course not. When I read through the initial social media storm I guessed that most of the reported failures were the result of user error. I still think that user error is the most likely cause of someone discovering their DSP is off at the end of the day of skiing. But I'm now convinced some users have handled their non-broken beacons properly and found it off later through no fault of their own.

I'm glad Pieps/BD is offering some kind of upgrade. I actually think they've handled all tis pretty well. The social media storm did not convince me that a non-broken switch could be dangerous. I've worn my DSP Pro 100-150 times and it never surprised me by being off. Even after a good bit of fiddling with it I was still leaning toward continuing to use it until I discovered the issue in the videos: a moderate amount of well place force can unlock the switch while it's in a harness. It is not likely. But it's likely enough that I'd rather use something else.

As I mentioned by Beacon has seen a good bit of use- nothing like a professional user, but probably more than most folks. I don't know if my button functions differently than a new one, but it is certainly possible that it is worn in some way. Putting all the pieces that I have seen together I just don't think Pieps released an obviously flawed product, or that they should have rushed to recall at an earlier time.

[galibier_numero_un]

Re-posting this (with a couple added sentences) from the other Pieps button thread:

Another video (the person in the video is me).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e2atL2zKM5p3XDWRA

This time I put it in the harness with the screen facing my body (even though the user manual shows the beacon in the harness screen-out). Then I rubbed the whole thing firmly against my ribs. This was enough to unlock the switch and move the slide out of the lock position. Then I slid it into the off position. The sequence is important here. I did not slide the switch while depressing the lock against my ribs. I slid the switch afterwards. Rubbing it against my ribs was enough to depress the lock and move the slide enough that it did not re-lock itself. I repeated this result 8 times before recording the video.

In my opinion applying the right kind of pressure to unlock the switch while touring is a realistic scenario. And bumping that switch into OFF at some point over the next 10,000 steps is also not outlandish. Will it happen every time out. Of course not. When I read through the initial social media storm I guessed that most of the reported failures were the result of user error. I still think that user error is the most likely cause of someone discovering their DSP is off at the end of the day of skiing. But I'm now convinced some users have handled their non-broken beacons properly and found it off later through no fault of their own.

I'm glad Pieps/BD is offering some kind of upgrade. I actually think they've handled all tis pretty well. The social media storm did not convince me that a non-broken switch could be dangerous. I've worn my DSP Pro 100-150 times and it never surprised me by being off. Even after a good bit of fiddling with it I was still leaning toward continuing to use it until I discovered the issue in the videos: a moderate amount of well place force can unlock the switch while it's in a harness. It is not likely. But it's likely enough that I'd rather use something else.

As I mentioned by Beacon has seen a good bit of use- nothing like a professional user, but probably more than most folks. I don't know if my button functions differently than a new one, but it is certainly possible that it is worn in some way. Putting all the pieces that I have seen together I just don't think Pieps released an obviously flawed product, or that they should have rushed to recall at an earlier time.

Good post. Earlier, I missed the part about the delay between unlocking and sliding. That obviously increases the probability of a failure.

As far as your usage is concerned, that would seem to be minimal from a # of cycles to failure perspective, even taking practice sessions into account. I would expect test cycles to far exceed that of even an every day user.

I'm not an industrial engineer, but if this were a Toyota switch, wouldn't a test for 100,000 cycles or more be typical (realizing that small companies don't have robotics to perform these sorts of tests)?

Of course, maybe aging comes into play as well (plasticizers outgassing)? I'm thinking about ski boots that used to disintegrate, just sitting on the shelf.

... Thom

[Jonathan S.]

Quoting myself from the other thread:

Okay, now that video is definitely convincing. Thanks for taking the time to record and post it. Big contrast to all the other videos I've watched (something like half-a-dozen so far).

I've been strolling through memory lane now and thinking about the switch quirks on the many different models I've used throughout the years.
But at least all of those quirks were obvious after just a bit of use.
By contrast, when I had the DSP Pro, I never suspected that something like that in your video could ever happen to me. But apparently it easily could have...

[ASmileyFace]

Great info in this thread. I will be showing some of this info and videos to my boss who is a bit skeptical on the whole situation and was considering putting the few DSP Pros we have in back stock for sale soon.

To add a quick personal story; I was chatting with a partner of mine who used the DSP Pro for the last couple seasons. We had a scary moment a few years ago where we got back to the car and his beacon was off. We had not performed a beacon check that day, but had done some beacon practice work that morning before jumping in the car. Both of us believed we had left our beacons on and he insisted that he had checked his beacon before starting the tour. Our conclusion was that he had turned his beacon off between driving to our touring spot and just forgot to turn it back on. The experience scared the shit out of us and I haven't skipped a beacon check since.

With the new info coming out on the DSP pro we went back and reexamined that day. My buddy took a weird fall, while skiing a pillow line, where he scraped his beacon side of this body against the rocks. He even cracked the buckle on his harness. While I won't discount or forget the lesson we learned that day about beacon checks and double checking your gear... we both agree that the manner of his fall and the new info about the DSP Pro is anything but a coincidence.

Besides Pieps shitty response about this... my biggest lesson is check your gear, check your gear, check your gear.

[jacob_dbu]

Looks like they will be upgrading all Pieps DSP beacons to their new ones if requested.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I just got this email:

Hello _______,

Thank you for your email. As a company of skiers, snowboarders, spilt boarders, ice climbers, and alpinists, we share your passion for the backcountry. Your safety is our top priority, and we are committed to addressing any concerns you may have regarding your DSP Pro or DSP Sport transceiver.

We handle every Pieps Beacon inquiry on an individual basis. Please file a warranty claim here so we can process your claim as quickly as possible. If you have any questions in the meantime, please call our product specialists directly at 1-800-775-5552.

For more than 45 years, Pieps has been the worldwide technology leader in avalanche transceivers. Our mission is to bring you state-of-the-art equipment and peace of mind. Thank you for taking us with you on your backcountry adventures and for your continued support.

-Pieps Customer Service Team

North America Pieps Warranty Link: https://warranty.bdel.com/CreateCase/StepOne

Pieps North America

2084 East 3900 South

Salt Lake City, Utah 84124

My Beacon is NOT under warranty, but I'm about to try...

[3PinGrin]

I just got this email:

Hello _______,

Thank you for your email. As a company of skiers, snowboarders, spilt boarders, ice climbers, and alpinists, we share your passion for the backcountry. Your safety is our top priority, and we are committed to addressing any concerns you may have regarding your DSP Pro or DSP Sport transceiver.

We handle every Pieps Beacon inquiry on an individual basis. Please file a warranty claim here so we can process your claim as quickly as possible. If you have any questions in the meantime, please call our product specialists directly at 1-800-775-5552.

For more than 45 years, Pieps has been the worldwide technology leader in avalanche transceivers. Our mission is to bring you state-of-the-art equipment and peace of mind. Thank you for taking us with you on your backcountry adventures and for your continued support.

-Pieps Customer Service Team

North America Pieps Warranty Link: https://warranty.bdel.com/CreateCase/StepOne

Pieps North America

2084 East 3900 South

Salt Lake City, Utah 84124

My Beacon is NOT under warranty, but I'm about to try...

Thanks for that, I emailed this morning but haven't heard back. The extended warranty on my older gray switch model was 5 years, I don't have warranty info on my ex wife's model which is the version in question. I need to have her look for the paperwork, but what was the warranty period on the affected model if anyone knows?

[mall walker]

Looks like they will be upgrading all Pieps DSP beacons to their new ones if requested.

link? should I just submit a warranty claim?

[I've seen black diamonds!]

link? should I just submit a warranty claim?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGlBzHUlNL7/

I sent an email to that address and received the reply posted above.

[3PinGrin]

Thanks for that, I emailed this morning but haven't heard back. The extended warranty on my older gray switch model was 5 years, I don't have warranty info on my ex wife's model which is the version in question. I need to have her look for the paperwork, but what was the warranty period on the affected model if anyone knows?

In response to my own question, I am seeing a 2 year warranty. I don't recall if there was an extension option or if I filed it.

[Eluder]

I just got this email:

Hello _______,

Thank you for your email. As a company of skiers, snowboarders, spilt boarders, ice climbers, and alpinists, we share your passion for the backcountry. Your safety is our top priority, and we are committed to addressing any concerns you may have regarding your DSP Pro or DSP Sport transceiver.

We handle every Pieps Beacon inquiry on an individual basis. Please file a warranty claim here so we can process your claim as quickly as possible. If you have any questions in the meantime, please call our product specialists directly at 1-800-775-5552.

For more than 45 years, Pieps has been the worldwide technology leader in avalanche transceivers. Our mission is to bring you state-of-the-art equipment and peace of mind. Thank you for taking us with you on your backcountry adventures and for your continued support.

-Pieps Customer Service Team

North America Pieps Warranty Link: https://warranty.bdel.com/CreateCase/StepOne

Pieps North America

2084 East 3900 South

Salt Lake City, Utah 84124

My Beacon is NOT under warranty, but I'm about to try...

Same response, just submitted form.

[Eluder]

In response to my own question, I am seeing a 2 year warranty. I don't recall if there was an extension option or if I filed it.

I can remember how long but seem to remember an extended warranty if you registered it.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I can remember how long but seem to remember an extended warranty if you registered it.

I extended, but I bought it Spring of 2015. Will report back the response.

[3PinGrin]

I can remember how long but seem to remember an extended warranty if you registered it.

Thanks, trying to figure potential warranty extension part out. For now filed warranty claim, didn't have a photo, but not much to show in a pic anyway.

[::: :::]

gonna check both beacons tonight