USFS proposed rule to revamp eMTB access (Sept. 2020)

[climberevan]

They should be managed as if they are motorized cycles. So, they should be allowed on trails open to motorized use.

They already are, except as others have noted there is zero enforcement.

This whole issue doesn't need to be so complicated: motorized vehicles stay on the trails designated for their use, not motorized continue to go wherever, horses GTFO.

[grinch]

Is there a way to ignore Grinch but only in threads that are related to e-bikes? This has the potential to be a good and useful discussion without him cunting it up. Absent selective ignore, I guess I'll just have to do a total ignore for the time being.

They what were all illegal? Do you ever express yourself as if you didn't have a head injury?

They should be managed as if they are motorized cycles. So, they should be allowed on trails open to motorized use.

Ring! ring! ring! Out the way pleebs
Get used to it

Hey i gots a brownie 4 u

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[TAFKALVS]

The next gen e-bikes will be harder to tell that they are e-bikes. 2-3 gens from now, all bikes will probably be ebikes and won't look much different than your current enduro sled, other than a tiny LCD and a charging port. Just a hunch. The consumer will want it, especially once the weight penalty, form factor, etc present no compromise.

[mall walker]

half/mostly trolling but is a bike with AXS or Di2 philosophically different from an ebike? one of the claims I have read about these drivetrains is that they reduce fatigue from mechanical shifting on long rides

[grinch]

The next gen e-bikes will be harder to tell that they are e-bikes. 2-3 gens from now, all bikes will probably be ebikes and won't look much different than your current enduro sled, other than a tiny LCD and a charging port. Just a hunch. The consumer will want it, especially once the weight penalty, form factor, etc present no compromise.

Bingo. Fazua motor is damn close now.
Reminded me of this. Must be a canadian thing



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[rideit]

My relationship with ebikes can be summed up this way.
It is like a super hot, Flirty, white trash Girl.
I’m unreasonably attracted to and repulsed by them in almost equal measure.

[El Chupacabra]

My relationship with ebikes can be summed up this way.
It is like a super hot, Flirty, white trash Girl.
I’m unreasonably attracted to and repulsed in almost equal measure.

Are STDs also likely?

[grinch]

"Thicc super hot,flirty, white trash girl". Does a sore taint count as an std?

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[rideit]

Are STDs also likely?

I dunno, but I also don’t want to be seen with one.

[climberevan]

In that scenario my KTM must be a full blown porn star. In the right context all of them can be fun and legal.

[stuckathuntermtn]

My relationship with ebikes can be summed up this way.
It is like a super hot, Flirty, white trash Girl.
I’m unreasonably attracted to and repulsed by them in almost equal measure.

I dunno, but I also don’t want to be seen with one.

Hey, look at that, just like a moped. The joke and this thread has come full circle!

The lack of enforcement can be solved by laughing people out of the trailhead.

[grinch]

Yawn!

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[jm2e]

Just possibly, USFS rangers have noticed zero issues directly related to ebikes. No significant increase in trail damage that they'll need to deal with. No significant increase in injuries, rescues or evacuations that they'll need to deal with. No significant increase in user numbers. No environmental impact. In a sense, this "Land" that they have to "Manage" is not any harder to manage with ebikes creeping around out there. More than likely, the only time they EVER hear about them is from other cyclists crying foul. And it sounds more like a tourist complaining to a NYC cop that someone just jaywalked down the street and less like an actual crime that they need to put resources toward.

[grinch]

Boom!!

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[toast2266]

Just possibly, USFS rangers have noticed zero issues directly related to ebikes. No significant increase in trail damage that they'll need to deal with. No significant increase in injuries, rescues or evacuations that they'll need to deal with. No significant increase in user numbers. No environmental impact. In a sense, this "Land" that they have to "Manage" is not any harder to manage with ebikes creeping around out there. More than likely, the only time they EVER hear about them is from other cyclists crying foul. And it sounds more like a tourist complaining to a NYC cop that someone just jaywalked down the street and less like an actual crime that they need to put resources toward.

Agreed, although even more likely is that forest service LEO's are super rare, and they have way better shit to deal with. On our forest, there's two officers covering just under 2.5 million acres with about 1500 miles of road.

Given the option of hanging out at trailheads in the hopes of busting an ebiker, or dealing with the sketchy guy that's set up a shanty town to cook meth, I can see how the ebike issue isn't their primary concern.

[Dantheman]

Just possibly, USFS rangers have noticed zero issues directly related to ebikes. No significant increase in trail damage that they'll need to deal with. No significant increase in injuries, rescues or evacuations that they'll need to deal with. No significant increase in user numbers. No environmental impact. In a sense, this "Land" that they have to "Manage" is not any harder to manage with ebikes creeping around out there. More than likely, the only time they EVER hear about them is from other cyclists crying foul. And it sounds more like a tourist complaining to a NYC cop that someone just jaywalked down the street and less like an actual crime that they need to put resources toward.

If anyone is lodging formal complaints with USFS or BLM it's probably hikers and equestrians.

[grinch]

These ebike threads would suggest the complaints come from more than just hikers and equestrians. Some are anti and wouldnt bother actually lodging a complaint but i can see a few filing a complaint and thats only a small sample of mtbers

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[jono]

i can see

These threads threaten your credibility more than your ebiking.

[Bunion 2020]

1st you have to have a shred of cred.

[grinch]

haa .....case.....and.....point
Karen......and......karen

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[grskier]

Just possibly, USFS rangers have noticed zero issues directly related to ebikes. No significant increase in trail damage that they'll need to deal with. No significant increase in injuries, rescues or evacuations that they'll need to deal with. No significant increase in user numbers. No environmental impact. In a sense, this "Land" that they have to "Manage" is not any harder to manage with ebikes creeping around out there. More than likely, the only time they EVER hear about them is from other cyclists crying foul. And it sounds more like a tourist complaining to a NYC cop that someone just jaywalked down the street and less like an actual crime that they need to put resources toward.

This is demonstrably false.
We've seen several instances of people being further out, or out at all with an ebike getting hurt and needing a rescue, and, we've had several complaints on trail conflicts that hadn't been there before because the folks headed up were doing 4 mph and the folks going down 10. a 14 mph difference, now that delta is sometimes 20+.

That said, there are about a dozen trails here where I have no beef with class 1 e bikes and most of those with ebikes in general. I went for a ride the other day with a buddy on an ebike, we went and rode a moto trail. other than the part all bumped out it was a hoot

[grinch]

Thats demonstrably biased.
There are more backcountry skiers travelling deep in the bc needing rescue than emtbers so by your reasoning we set limits how far bc skiers can go.
I bet if that was a trail runner climbing that trail at 4mph and the cyclists riding down at 16mph you'd wag your fi ger at the cyclists
Nice mommy state bruh

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[Quadzilla]

I doubt that horse people and hikers can tell the difference between E and pedal bikers, however they do know the difference between good and bad behavior. Around here, trails for the most part are "multi use" as well as two way and that in its self is a problem and for the most part there is cooperation, but there are those who are selfish or just don't give a shit and that is the problem.

For me, I have been a MTB rider since the mid 80's and MTB has always been a sizable part of my physical life. My wife is my primary ride partner and last Fall we ordered Ebikes to add to our riding. She was in the process of getting a new hip as well as we have friends who were in transition of getting Emtbs and we were riding with them on our pedal bikes. We didn't get our bikes till March and started riding them right away. My wife's hip turned out to be way easier than what we expected as she was riding her pedal bike in less than two weeks and was skiing 100% in 6. Anyway, our plan was to ride both pedal and E but to be honest we ride mostly E because they are way fun to ride. We ride 3-4 time per week on popular trails and not once has a pedal biker said anything. We do avoid conflict by not pushing riders in front but wait till they stop and keep a distance, never talk about our bikes and give a big cushion to uphill riders when we descend. We are stealth. Riding Moto trails, that is a joke as ATV's, the big powerful ones have destroyed and chewed up everything making it a rutted mess.

Looks like a big light at the end of the tunnel for Class one......

[ridinshockgun]

Fact: Many trails that don't see much traffic due to the effort required to reach them will see exponentially more traffic if everyone is on ebikes. In some cases that is good for trails that don't get enough use to see regular maintenance, in some cases that is bad as increased use is increased use regardless what you make of it.

That loamy trail in late August? Gonna be blown out like the rest of the trails people have been shredding all summer. Not because the motor itself is tearing the trail up but because it had 1,500 tires on it last week instead of 25.

Maybe not the same issue somewhere like BC where there is just so much space in relation to metro areas but here it would make a big difference.

Trails you put in the effort to get fit and go further than anyone else for a bit of solitude? Forget it. I suppose now I just get an ebike and go further? But is there really enough legal trail to get THAT far away? I mean, getting 20 miles from the car one way on a MTB is a hell of a task but finding places where you can get that far away and legally ride a bike is even more difficult. Now I have to find a place I can get 40 miles from my car one way on a non motorized trail to get the same solitude? Does not exist without entering wilderness. I get that most riders who just wanna shred trail with the bros can't even remotely grasp this.

The next question would be are these e-bike riders going to use that motor to haul in trimmers for brushing and chainsaws for logging and do maintenance like the moto riders do? Sure beats the hell out of the handsaw I bring on early season rides. If so then perhaps it will be worth it. Maybe places like Icicle Ridge and upper Nason will get brushed out.

I am selfishly a bit disappointed that a lot of energy that was devoted to wilderness access is now going backwards towards ebike access to trails we can already ride on. I feel like the fucking ebikes were about 5 years too early. But most people don't want to bushwhack and hike-a-bike as much as I do so maybe it was never going to happen anyway.

On the other hand, there are some amazing motorized trail networks that I ride on my MTB that would be a blast to put in monster days on an ebike. 15-20k days I would imagine would be possible...but it is already legal

[grskier]

Thats demonstrably biased.
There are more backcountry skiers travelling deep in the bc needing rescue than emtbers so by your reasoning we set limits how far bc skiers can go.
I bet if that was a trail runner climbing that trail at 4mph and the cyclists riding down at 16mph you'd wag your fi ger at the cyclists
Nice mommy state bruh

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Nope, false equivalency. You been playing in political asshatery?