USFS proposed rule to revamp eMTB access (Sept. 2020)

[skaredshtles]

You better prepare for the future. Throttle only Eebs are coming and so is the understanding of them. More than likely city counselors and mayors will have one. State and federal too.

Its just short sighted cowardice to dig up all these excuses and try to find narratives to allow you to throw throttle only emtb's under the bus in your pursuit of advocacy. It does you no good in the advocacy fight. The short sighted part is the non acceptance that the added offroad cycling numbers wont make a net gain in advocacy. As more people continue to ride throttle only emtb that means more people in positiins of power ride throttle emtb. That trend has no border and has been happening with greater effect. Land managers hiked or where on horseback in the past. Now more are on bikes. If you want to get more of the decision makers on bikes it makes sense that the throttle emtb will excellerate that.

*words by Grinch

Heh.

[climberevan]

Well screw it all then. I'm going to roll like this on all trails, including the PCT from now on. Rules and laws don't apply and hikers won't be pissed and create a backlash because I'm polite.

[altasnob]

Population density of lower mainland (Vancouver, BC) and Western Washington are similar. So why were so many more trails built around Vancouver 10-20 years ago compared to Washington? I believe it is Canada's more laisez-faire attitude to land management and Americans propensity to sue for liability issues. Most of the North Shore trails are on "crown land," correct?

In Washington, there has been very little new trails built on federal land (National Forest) in the last twenty years. The new trails today are being built on state land (which is less restrictive environmentally). Galbraith in Bellingham is somewhat unique in that it is on private timber land. In 2018, the timber company sold a permanent mountain bike easement to the city for $3 million.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Well screw it all then. I'm going to roll like this on all trails, including the PCT from now on. Rules and laws don't apply and hikers won't be pissed and create a backlash because I'm polite.

I remember poaching the PCT between 50 and 88 in Tahoe, must have been around ‘89 or ‘90. We were pretty nervous but it was mid week and the only person we saw was a guy on a motocross bike headed north.

I’m not proud of the poaching, I was young and ignorant.



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[El Chupacabra]

Well screw it all then. I'm going to roll like this on all trails, including the PCT from now on. Rules and laws don't apply and hikers won't be pissed and create a backlash because I'm polite.

[Dantheman]

Well screw it all then. I'm going to roll like this on all trails, including the PCT from now on. Rules and laws don't apply and hikers won't be pissed and create a backlash because I'm polite.

You're just a lazy twat that hates pedaling

[grinch]

You better prepare for the future. Throttle only Eebs are coming and so is the understanding of them. More than likely city counselors and mayors will have one. State and federal too.

Its just short sighted cowardice to dig up all these excuses and try to find narratives to allow you to throw throttle only emtb's under the bus in your pursuit of advocacy. It does you no good in the advocacy fight. The short sighted part is the non acceptance that the added offroad cycling numbers wont make a net gain in advocacy. As more people continue to ride throttle only emtb that means more people in positiins of power ride throttle emtb. That trend has no border and has been happening with greater effect. Land managers hiked or where on horseback in the past. Now more are on bikes. If you want to get more of the decision makers on bikes it makes sense that the throttle emtb will excellerate that.

*words by Grinch

Well screw it all then. I'm going to roll like this on all trails, including the PCT from now on. Rules and laws don't apply and hikers won't be pissed and create a backlash because I'm polite.

Both posts are in the " cute but dumb" category.. Youre ignoring the fact that class 1 can co mingle on the same trail without conflict other than butthurt feelings of the haters

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[bendtheski]

"Trail access initially was started by rogue trail building and poaching. " Not really. We got trail access because nobody really cared. This is true for BC and Alberta. We're lucky because of pop density (or lack of).

Then when we wanted to be actually legitimized we did the land manager dance and jumped through hoops.

^This. We rode established single and double-track in the local State Park until they got enough complaints from entitled hikers to force a statewide ban in State Parks (NY). Over the past 35 years, some of the restrictions have lessened while many remain in place.

I moved to CO 12 years ago, and fortunately there seems to be greater interest in outdoor recreation, and the powers that be are much more liberal with access than in the northeast, but in that time, I've seen parks go to odd/even bike/hike, directional travel, etc. to address overuse. CO has IMO been pretty responsive and accommodating to all stake-holders, presumably because of people coming to the table for the conversation. The bad-asses who are flaunting restrictions out of hand, and encouraging others in kind IME will get many more trails closed than opened.

I know NYS used to confiscate bikes as collateral for summons appearances/fines, but apparently the emtb crowd don't see this as a potential consequence of poaching closed/restricted trails. Good luck with that. Not saying I'll never ride an emtb, but I won't go into it blindly and then complain when I realize they aren't viewed in exactly the same light as every other trail user category.

[thefortrees]

Dont be cuttin our grass scoopin the hot eeb chicas eh!

That's a lot to ask, first come first served they say.

Guess the shoulder healed up nicely? Ive added a good collar bone bump on mine but seems to have come around for the most part

Yeah dude, all healed up! Glad to hear you are coming around too

[grinch]

Nice revisionist version of mountain bike trail access history, but not very accurate, and if mopeds had been part of the discussion, pretty sure the hiking lobby would have told them to go fuck themselves. What year was your lobotomy?

#emtbcivildisobedienceforentitledjongs

Youre hardly worth responding to so ill leave it at that. Yawn

"Trail access initially was started by rogue trail building and poaching. " Not really. We got trail access because nobody really cared. This is true for BC and Alberta. We're lucky because of pop density (or lack of).

Then when we wanted to be actually legitimized we did the land manager dance and jumped through hoops.

You can't deny the fact that trails were still going to get built so they had to come to the table. Even today they look the other way as much as they can. Some of the best trails arent on maps/trailforks on the shore, here, the ok, nelson etc
Whatever happened to imba "standards"? Oh ya right, theres no way that people arent going to be putting in steeps and gaps. Thats gone out the window for even trail associations. Why? Because rogue.
That being said , im not going to discredit trail associations putting in and organizing anazing work but rogue got the ball rolling and still pushes the envelope as well as associations.
Berta is overwhelmingly influenced by parks. Namely the national.park. the berta prov parks have an overiding influence from the national parks for developement. Not saying the nat parks has a say in prov parks but the tone of the national parks casts a shadow of their policies on to the prov parks. Still rogue trails are getting built to this day there and then getting legitimized . I won't name them but i think.they've recently been added to trailforks.
All the "new" trails in banff are formerly rogue trails. I think exshaw and razors edge were/are rogue as well.
If we didnt sneak around putting in trail(used to wear full camo) or poaching hiking trails we wouldnt have anything to ride. Advocacy didn't start without some kind of foundation.
Rogue continues and class 1 does no harm to anyone

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[grinch]

Because they are getting older and can’t cope with the decreased performance of their bodies. It’s called denial.


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I'll leave the dick swinging to you bud because uoure probably slow af and it makes me laugh.
Im sure you'd kick Claudio's ass. Skip to the 9:45 mark. Why hasn't toast posted this? Oh right. It is nice to seem him let the butthurt flow a bit today. Dood is uptight.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000485204534

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[grinch]

Wait.. QuadZ so you are actively poaching trails on a eMTB with full knowledge that they are not allowed?? Are you a millennial? Because that sounds like some entitled bullshit!!


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You never got back to me on those "facts" you were speaking of. I disappoint. Could it be that you have no idea wtf youre talking about? Please continue to bootlick though

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[Quadzilla]

Wow, throwing enough shit at a wall hoping something might stick is well......... Now, if you hate pedal assist Ebikes generally then you should hate hand throttle ebikes twice as much.......... The differences and consequences are obvious.......

[LeeLau]

You can't deny the fact that trails were still going to get built so they had to come to the table. Even today they look the other way as much as they can. Some of the best trails arent on maps/trailforks on the shore, here, the ok, nelson etc

Of course! And even now you're right. There are so many of us independents punching in trail (I'm one of them) that the smart land managers are coming to the table. All I'm saying is that trail access didn't start because of rogue building and poaching. Trail access started because we forced it. The SANCTIONED trail access started because of trail associations with the song and dance. I guess that's all I'm driving at

Whatever happened to imba "standards"? Oh ya right, theres no way that people arent going to be putting in steeps and gaps. Thats gone out the window for even trail associations. Why? Because rogue.
That being said , im not going to discredit trail associations putting in and organizing anazing work but rogue got the ball rolling and still pushes the envelope as well as associations.

Yup we agree

Berta is overwhelmingly influenced by parks. Namely the national.park. the berta prov parks have an overiding influence from the national parks for developement. Not saying the nat parks has a say in prov parks but the tone of the national parks casts a shadow of their policies on to the prov parks. Still rogue trails are getting built to this day there and then getting legitimized . I won't name them but i think.they've recently been added to trailforks.
All the "new" trails in banff are formerly rogue trails. I think exshaw and razors edge were/are rogue as well.
If we didnt sneak around putting in trail(used to wear full camo) or poaching hiking trails we wouldnt have anything to ride. Advocacy didn't start without some kind of foundation.
Rogue continues and class 1 does no harm to anyone

Talked to my Canmore and Banff friends and what a weird attitude there is to biking. Such hypocrisy. Golf courses ok but bike trails blow.

"class 1 does no harm to anyone". So far so good and yeah I got to say it looks better than I thought. I was worried the land managers would come down heavy on ebikes and screw things up for RCA, KCTS, Golden Cycling or the SWBC trail orgs. But so far everyone's fitting in well and the friction people were worrying about hasn't happened. Even on the rogue side the ebikers are no better or worse in poaching loamers in the wet than anyone else so that's also a non-issue

[/QUOTE]

[grinch]

Of course! And even now you're right. There are so many of us independents punching in trail (I'm one of them) that the smart land managers are coming to the table. All I'm saying is that trail access didn't start because of rogue building and poaching. Trail access started because we forced it. The SANCTIONED trail access started because of trail associations with the song and dance. I guess that's all I'm driving at




Yup we agree



Talked to my Canmore and Banff friends and what a weird attitude there is to biking. Such hypocrisy. Golf courses ok but bike trails blow.

"class 1 does no harm to anyone". So far so good and yeah I got to say it looks better than I thought. I was worried the land managers would come down heavy on ebikes and screw things up for RCA, KCTS, Golden Cycling or the SWBC trail orgs. But so far everyone's fitting in well and the friction people were worrying about hasn't happened. Even on the rogue side the ebikers are no better or worse in poaching loamers in the wet than anyone else so that's also a non-issue

[/QUOTE]Refreshing, i was ready for battle. Takes some cahonas to even partially agree with anything i post in here , so tip of the hat.


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[LeeLau]

Refreshing, i was ready for battle. Takes some cahonas to even partially agree with anything i post in here , so tip of the hat.

Yeah I don't get why you're battling it out with Americans. Their land access is fucked. Their country is fucked. Their problems aren't our problems. We've got it good here and I'm just happy that's the way it is

Having said that I do enjoy trolling so maybe TGR is it for you? In that case - carry on

[grinch]

I was curios about which advocacy groups get more donations, hikers or mountain bikers. In 2018, Evergreen MTB (the largest state-wide mtb group in Washington, and the nation's largest statewide mountain bike association) received $593k through donations and membership dues. Washington Trails Association (the hiking group who hates mountain bikes) in 2019, $3.7 million. Money talks.

https://www.wta.org/our-work/about/f...sclosure-1.pdf

https://projects.propublica.org/nonp...20021317146070

Bump! This repost is pointed specificslly at you as but i like your links.

Now:
Where would you get the numbers to approach the hiker contributions?
What rapidly growing cycling segment could possibly fill that void?
maybe there's a segment that would fit in well with mtb that could?
Hmmmm, i wonder?
Maybe emtb will just vanish so best not look there. Pretty soon the numbers will be down to zero. The heat, they say the heat will get rid of them. Come spring time they'll just vanish.

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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Meanwhile in the US.....

You’re talking about Canada, it’s different here. There are “rogue”(illegal) trails being decommissioned right now in the US on Forest lands. We have non motorized and motorized trails here. We have trails in Wilderness areas. To ignore the designation of theses trails is irresponsible and selfish and will get more restrictions put on trails down here. For better or worse that’s our situation in the US. It’s not Canada.


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[grinch]

Good god; are you still confused as to why one would look at the impacts of a decision prior to engaging in said activity? Is this how you run your life? Let me guess; still not wearing a condom just because it “feels better” and you haven’t gotten HIV yet?

Right.


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Well than get some experience on one. Read up on one. Study the facts. History of mtb. Did you just start your job without training, education, work scenerio training?
If you, like the majority in here, actually put "enough" riding in on an emtb to fully know how they function in regards to other bikes as well as trail interactions you may have some actual talking points that make sense.
Could someone walk in off the street and tell you how to do your job because they thought they knew better and have a firm grip on things because they read a couple links to support their feelings? Couple that with a gang of seemingly drunken buds agreeing to his supposed knowledge because they read a couple links too

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[bendtheski]

Youre hardly worth responding to so ill leave it at that. Yawn

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[grinch]

Meanwhile in the US.....

You’re talking about Canada, it’s different here. There are “rogue”(illegal) trails being decommissioned right now in the US on Forest lands. We have non motorized and motorized trails here. We have trails in Wilderness areas. To ignore the designation of theses trails is irresponsible and selfish and will get more restrictions put on trails down here. For better or worse that’s our situation in the US. It’s not Canada.


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Your local, state and federal gov't have classified class 1 as equal to mtb because they fit. There's youre added revenue and political sway. Use it or lose it at youre own peril. Thats not canada. I guess i have to state that or you'll side step it again.
Looks like mtb access' biggest impediment is the retro grouchs among its membership. Can't even help the fools. Always has been though. Once were were just mtb riders than there was xc and dh. The old dogs still just called it mtb. Noobs said xc was the way and dh riders are tfail terrorists. Going to mowing down mom and the kids hiking and mass environmental damage. Noob xc'ers couldnt ride the dh trails so they were of no use to them. So throw them under the bus despite the guys riding dh made all the trails and still just ride what they call mtb. We forget because the average bike and rider is more capable now. I don't forget.

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[grinch]

Why must i keep reminding you guys of well known history? You gots the olds hymen disease?

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[bendtheski]

Well than get some experience on one. Read up on one. Study the facts. History of mtb. Did you just start your job without training, education, work scenerio training?
If you, like the majority in here, actually put "enough" riding in on an emtb to fully know how they function in regards to other bikes as well as trail interactions you may have some actual talking points that make sense.
Could someone walk in off the street and tell you how to do your job because they thought they knew better and have a firm grip on things because they read a couple links to support their feelings? Couple that with a gang of seemingly drunken buds agreeing to his supposed knowledge because they read a couple links too

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Some day I might actually invest in an emtb when I run out of gears. In the mean time, I'll be here triggering more of your incoherent butthurt rants.

[toast2266]

Your local, state and federal gov't have classified class 1 as equal to mtb because they fit.

No they haven't. "Study the facts."

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The only sanctioned use of e bikes around here on non motorized trails is on private land. I’m not sure where you get your facts from grinch.


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