Best two-way radio for families?

[sethschmautz]

I have been trying to avoid this because I really sort of hate the idea of carrying radios (and having my kids carry radios) while skiing. However, we had more than one situation last year where my 7yo was split up from his ski club which caused a little stress for everybody involved (me, 7yo, instructors, etc.). The 7yo (now 8) is the oldest of the 3 kids and I know that this is going to be a recurring issue as the others get older and begin exploring the mountain on their own.

Anybody had good/bad/indifferent experiences with radios? Keep it simple (Motorola walkabouts) or are there better options out there? If a kid gets hurt, drops into a treewell, or doesn't know where they are, a Garmin Rhino seems like a good option but overkill (and expensive) if none of those situations occur. Cell service is decent on the front of the mountain but nonexistant on the backside, so a cell device seems like a poor choice.

Thanks in advance for the thoughts.

Seth

[prsboogie]

My at the time 6yo fell of the edge of a trail after trying to corner on some new england pack power ie glacier ice. I was about 50 yards down hill from her and around another bend and had no idea she went off trail. After 5 minutes and booting back up the trail I saw a ski on the edge and I wanted to puke. Luckily when she went over wasn't 150 yards north of us because that is sheer cliff with a 30 foot drop. She was laughing when I got to her and she threw her other ski up and climbed out. I have thought about radios since but don't know what to get

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[N1CK.]

My only experience is with Motorola T800.
Would recommend.

[jacob_dbu]

The $50 ones from REI have been extremely effective for me. They're small and easy to use and they have some FRS high power channels which work better in NLOS (non line of sight).

[HellgateBasement]

The only problem I see with this is getting a small child to relay their location to you with any precision. You'd almost be better off with some sort of GPS tracker on the little fuckers. I mean angels.

[sethschmautz]

My only experience is with Motorola T800.
Would recommend.

I think I know the answer to this but does the T800 require a smart phone to be paired with a device that is sending it's location or is that built into the radio itself (like a Garmin Rino). And, as Hellgate suggested, does seeing somebody else's location require that person to send it or can it be passive?

This probably seems creepy but we use Life 360 as a family to see location for me, my wife and my parents. It has come in handy more than once. That would be perfect except that it requires cell service which the backside of the mountain doesn't have.

That leaves something like this (or the Garmin Rino) or a satellite tracker.

[whyturn]

The Motorola are fine for limited distance and work well for $40-50. The baofang are better but also more complicated. I like BCA and if you got them for $100 they have better distance and a microphone.


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[jacob_dbu]

goTenna will use the GPS from your phone and has a nice smartphone app I believe. They've gotten much better over the years due to their military contracts and needs.

[m2711c]

the problem with the radios is all the other wackos on your channel..... just like life in general, it only takes a few asshole to make the whole thing unusable.

[singlecross]

Yes, proper radio etiquette goes a long way to make the system useable for all. Call names, keeping it brief, and signing out are a simple but effective start, even for kids. Don't just push the button and start blabbing away, please.

[jacob_dbu]

The nice thing about goTenna is you can text through them.


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[sethschmautz]

I'm looking for something to be as simple as possible so that my 8 or 6yo could use it. That Motorola t800 is the leader right now and reminds me a little bit of the Garmin Rino.

When a user (in my case a kid) hits his PTT button it should update their location in case I need to go get them somewhere. I'm not sure that the t800 updates geo automatically without user intervention. The older Rino did not. The maps in the Rino were also really bad.

The only downside is the need to pair a smartphone to the t800 for geos. My kids don't have them and I'm not in any hurry for them to have them. Since this works off grid it would seem that it's only pulling from the phone's GPS radio so any old phone ought to do - it would just need to be paired to the radio and in a pocket.

Best case would be a t800 with the GPS radio built in that auto updates location every so often.

The Beartooth, GoTenna and Radacats are all really cool and would great for older kids. Mine just aren't ready for them.

Might just go with the cheap Talkabouts or possibly the T800s...

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[caulfield]

When a user (in my case a kid) hits his PTT button it should update their location in case I need to go get them somewhere. I'm not sure that the t800 updates geo automatically without user intervention. The older Rino did not. The maps in the Rino were also really bad.

Rinos still update location with PTT only, no background update. I think the PTT update functionality has been there since the first rino. Looks like maps are still garbage on the low end model.

I've had a couple rino units and they were fun at first but ultimately shitty devices with questionable benefit (for adults at least). Outfitting your whole family with those would be super expensive. I have faith in your kids' ability to learn how to relay location with reasonable precision, I'd go with the cheapo ones.

[gregorys]

Baofeng BF-888S + hand-mic. Should be around $15-20/radio.
You'll need to program the radios.
I'd suggest, though not technically in-spec, using FRS frequencies at low power.
[I'm glad to have a dialog about using these on FRS, but honestly, if it's done responsibly it's well within the spirit of the regulations, IMO. But that's a distraction and often devolves into acrimony - so if someone wants to make those arguments, start a new thread.]

All the radios are essentially the same, using the same radio spectrum, and won't have vastly different distances. [Moto, BCA, etc}
They are all line-of-sight radios.
So, if there's a (big) ridge between you, you probably aren't going to be able to talk.

If you don't want to program, I've seen the BF-888S setup with FRS frequencies and the radios even claim to be certified (IIRC) part 95 - which makes them "in-spec" as far as the FCC is concerned. [I don't really believe the part 95 cert claims, but hey - you'll have done your best.]

IMO, this is by far the cheapest and best solution I've seen.
It's not foolproof. They can get turned off, run out of battery, have the hand-mic come part-way out of the jack and you won't hear transmissions or make them, change channels, etc.
But most of the time they work very well.

I can't stress enough about the hand-mic. It makes stashing them in a pocket and still being able to hear/use them without having to dig them out.

I'm glad to assist choosing/programing/etc if you're interested. There are quite a few others here who could too.

[sethschmautz]

Baofeng is a good suggestion. I'm going to do a little more research but I like that option. Any issues with accidentally changing channels in a pocket? Have you used these with kids before?

Thanks in advance.

Seth

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[motogreg]

if there is coverage and you are going the fone route those little smart watches for kids work pretty good, and not full function so no worries about the kids surfing pornhub

[gregorys]

Baofeng is a good suggestion. I'm going to do a little more research but I like that option. Any issues with accidentally changing channels in a pocket? Have you used these with kids before?

I have not used with really young kids. We have a group of friends who all have these - and their kids are/were younger when we started. 10-11? Something like that. [I think we got a 12 pack?]

The BF-888S, I think, can "lock" the channels. We've never used that feature and only rarely have an issue. We do have the "voice" read-back feature turned on, so any time the channel gets changed, a voice "says" the new channel number. So, it's pretty obvious it got changed, if it did, and it's easy to go back to the "right" channel. (But as noted up-thread it is a "dial" selector, so it's somewhat easier to change channels without intending to, IMO.)

This link will probably die in the future, but I'll post it and the description, so it can be searched later, if the link is dead. Baofeng BF-888ST

The "ST" version appears to be a FRS specific radio. The BF-888S is just regularly program-able - and you WILL have to program it. It came, last I knew, programmed to odd frequencies in VHF business spectrum and YOU SHOULD NOT USE THE PRE-PROGRAMMED CHANNELS ON THOSE RADIOS. NO! (You may not be able to re-program the ST version - I think that would have to be the case to get Part 95 certified. But I don't know. Reading reviews might be helpful.) Personally, I'd get the regular BF-888S and do what I wanted with it. (More flexibility is, IMO, more than worth the trouble of programming it.)

https://www.amazon.com/BAOFENG-Licen.../dp/B08BYVM7JL

That's a 4-pack for $42 total. It doesn't include the hand-mic.

The really cheap hand-mic's are fine.
In wet weather, they may quit working. Usually they work again once dried out. But I've had a few fail. However the price doesn't seem to matter. I've gotten some that are "better/more-expensive" but that seems to have little bearing on longevity. I've been doing this a while, and *always* wear a radio. I've probably had 3-4 die. At ~$5 ea, I don't worry about it.
https://www.amazon.com/Handheld-Spea.../dp/B07X8XSJ49

You may be able to get them cheaper on ebay. I haven't checked this stuff in ages.

As for channel locking. If keeping them from unlocking/changing channels is pretty important, you could get one of UV5R variants [A higher end, VFO/Channel radio.] It easily locks so only the mic and volume function. I think they are under $40-45. (I'm thinking one just for the youngest, most likely to screw it up.)

Personally, I'd recommend just buying some BF888s's and trying them. If you find you have problems the first outing or two, you can tweak things. You won't be out a lot of money trying them.

Finally, this probably won't make sense to you now, but just to keep in your mind. At Meadows (where we usually ski), there are quite a few places where the radio squelch opens when it shouldn't. (The radio hisses like someones transmitting.)

The solution is to program a DTCS/CTCSS code so the squelch only opens when it also "hears" that code. It's the same "code" idea that the Moto/BCA/et al. FRS radios have.

And really, I'd be totally happy helping you program these. If you're around Portland, I'd be glad to meet. If you're elsewhere, I'm sure you can figure it out. CHIRP is the best tool. It runs best on a PC, but can run on a Mac too - but I've heard of more difficulties on a Mac.

[gregorys]

Here's a 10 pack, for ~$88.
https://www.amazon.com/Baofeng-BF-88.../dp/B00EDIC062

[Not the ST version, just the plain old BF-888.]

[caulfield]

^^ strong response

CHIRP is the best tool. It runs best on a PC, but can run on a Mac too - but I've heard of more difficulties on a Mac.

I've used it with the last couple versions of macOS and been fine

[sethschmautz]

Personally, I'd get the regular BF-888S and do what I wanted with it. (More flexibility is, IMO, more than worth the trouble of programming it.)...

I think I'm going to give the Baofeng's a try. There was a ton of good info in there and solid links. I also appreciate the offer for the programming help. I used to do a little bit of tactical radio programming for government customers as part of my IT Engineering job a few years back but I could use a refresher. I'll reach out if in having any issues.

I like the idea of the hand mic and as cheap as they are I'll probably get a few and try them out.

Thanks for the recommendation!

Seth

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[anotherVTskibum]

It sounds like the Baofengs should fit your needs.

A couple more thoughts:

1. make sure the kids have a pocket with minimal chance of impact damage (to the kids, not the radio). Remote mics help with that because you can then put the radio just about anywhere, but I'd definitely try to avoid chest pockets. The same goes for adults, for that matter, and they're probably slower-healing than the kids (though possibly less likely to crash).

1a. routing the mic cable properly can make a big difference in how readily the mic and radio want to stay in place and in how distracting they can be. Your kids will probably need some help with that (and it will be different depending on what jacket is involved). A lot of times, wrapping it around your back works pretty well, but that will vary with body size and cable length.

2. Baofengs are cheap enough that, were I relying on them to make a family vacation happy, I'd have at least one fully-charged and programmed spare on hand (and maybe two).

[gregorys]

FWIW, I always have mine in a chest pocket, and while I don't crash constantly, I push things pretty hard and usually my bombs are considered pretty epic by my friends. And I've never had any injuries from the radio - or even felt like it was even a minor problem. [I'm not sure why that is. I find it kind of surprising, but it is what it is. My phone is in the other chest pocket and it's been fine too.]

That said, for kids, I'd tend to agree. My daughter usually zips hers into a small pack she wears, and routes the cord over her shoulder, along-side the straps and clips to the sternum strap.

Spare radios is also not a bad idea - especially for a vacation, etc. Spare batteries would be my choice.

In my experience, the only thing I've had issues with was a radio that didn't get charged. I have ~3 UV5R or variants, and ~3 BF-888S and none of them have ever had any issues at all. [Hand-mic problems, but never a radio.]