Sober October

[Mofro261]

Splitting a gummy with 1.8 mgs THC... those parents are totally out of control.

[Dantheman]

Splitting a gummy with 1.8 mgs THC... those parents are totally out of control.

That's like splitting one low-gravity beer.

[shafty85]

Just a note that volume doesn’t equate to addiction/dependency - addiction can be simply ‘needing’ that one beer with dinner. If you ‘need’ your daily coffee, you’re addicted to it. Whether or not an addiction is acceptable to you is up to you and those whose opinions you value - hopefully you have more relevant and important people than us on this forum. Society has also chosen which addictions are publicly ‘acceptable’ - though that may not impact your decision making. Just something to consider for those of you who seem to be equating volume to dependency.

For those of you who do want to make a long term change, all the best. For those of you who just want to give a go for a month, awesome. And those who need a change but don’t yet realize it - the absolute best of luck.


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[muted]

I thought I'd be much less gassy by now.

[tgapp]

Just a note that volume doesn’t equate to addiction/dependency - addiction can be simply ‘needing’ that one beer with dinner. If you ‘need’ your daily coffee, you’re addicted to it.

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I disagree. I think there is a meaningful distinction between a behavior that is habitual vs. a behavior that represents an addictive tendency, even if there are compulsive tendencies around that habit. I would suggest that answering yes to any of the following questions may well indicate an addictive tendency/substance use problem above and beyond 'habitual' use.

- Is your behavior having a negative impact—directly or indirectly—on your life?
- Do you repeatedly put yourself in risky situations for this behavior (eg driving while drunk, drinking in excess, etc)?
- When you stop drinking or using for any length of time, do you experience withdrawal symptoms like anxiety or stress?
- Have you taken steps to hide your behavior?
- Have you repeatedly, but unsuccessfully, tried to stop drinking or using on your own?

So, in the above example of coffee, I do drink coffee on a daily basis, but I fail to meet any of the criteria above. And while I imagine that a daily beer could very well be problematic for some, for many people, it just isn't.

[muted]

tgapp, i think you are misunderstanding what addiction simply means.

[tgapp]

tgapp, i think you are misunderstanding what addiction simply means.

I could be totally off here, but I don't think so. The distinction between addiction and habit seems to be in the propensity for harm. Take a look here at the first definition:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/addiction

"a compulsive, chronic, physiological or psychological need for a habit-forming substance, behavior, or activity having harmful physical, psychological, or social effects and typically causing well-defined symptoms (such as anxiety, irritability, tremors, or nausea) upon withdrawal or abstinence" (emphasis mine)

So - while someone could say something like "I'm addicted to running", and could very well experience a compulsive need to run every day, does that qualify as addiction? Maybe. Running isn't (necessarily) harmful physically (suppose a person wears correct footwear, warms up, stretches, etc), psychologically, or socially - but if you are (literally) running away from work commitments, personal responsibilities, and other obligations, then yes, clearly, running would be an addictive behavior.

Other grey areas are harder to disentangle; alcohol obviously has a huge propensity for addiction, but not all alcohol use (even habitual or compulsive use) necessarily has addictive properties. Say I always want a german pilsner when I eat a brat - every time I have a brat, I need to wash it down with a bottle of Urquell. In fact - I don't want to eat sausage if I can't have my beer with it. And maybe I eat sausage(and subsequently drink Urquell) every night. But without the component of harm/well-defined withdrawal symptoms, I don't think that my sausage/cerveza habit really qualifies.

I guess I'm being more reactive to a very bright-line, "not even once" style of thinking that I find prevalent in practitioners of 12 step programs or similar paradigms. I understand that for many of these people, adherence to a very strict set of principles is necessary for their very survival (and I applaud them in their discipline and sobriety), but I believe there to be far more nuance in assessing addiction than some of that black and white thinking allows for. It's the harm component that takes something from being habitual to hazardous/addictive.

[stealurface831]

I disagree. I think there is a meaningful distinction between a behavior that is habitual vs. a behavior that represents an addictive tendency, even if there are compulsive tendencies around that habit. I would suggest that answering yes to any of the following questions may well indicate an addictive tendency/substance use problem above and beyond 'habitual' use.

- Is your behavior having a negative impact—directly or indirectly—on your life?
- Do you repeatedly put yourself in risky situations for this behavior (eg driving while drunk, drinking in excess, etc)?
- When you stop drinking or using for any length of time, do you experience withdrawal symptoms like anxiety or stress?
- Have you taken steps to hide your behavior?
- Have you repeatedly, but unsuccessfully, tried to stop drinking or using on your own?

So, in the above example of coffee, I do drink coffee on a daily basis, but I fail to meet any of the criteria above. And while I imagine that a daily beer could very well be problematic for some, for many people, it just isn't.

Here is the thing: in my experience, an alcoholic is simply unable to distinguish true addiction from habitual behavior. The first time I realized I might have a problem was July of last year. My dad was receiving cancer treatment a few hours away and I went with my mom to stay in a hotel near the medical center. In the six or so months prior, I had imbibed every day, without fail. More recently, I had increased my consumption to about a case a day, give or take, but never less than a dozen beers a day for about two months. The first night in that hotel, I experienced auditory hallucinations for the first time. I literally heard voices. The next few days were a perpetual anxiety attack and the nights were restless and hallucinatory. Yet, still, I convinced myself that it was not a problem. "It's got nothing to do with your drinking. You're just stressed about your dad," I told myself. In hindsight, the reality of the situation is so clear. Suffice to say, if you always have an excuse or explanation to your drinking, you may have a problem, but then again, maybe not. In the end, the designation of "addiction" is amorphous and highly subjective.

[tgapp]

Here is the thing: in my experience, an alcoholic is simply unable to distinguish true addiction from habitual behavior. The first time I realized I might have a problem was July of last year. My dad was receiving cancer treatment a few hours away and I went with my mom to stay in a hotel near the medical center. In the six or so months prior, I had imbibed every day, without fail. More recently, I had increased my consumption to about a case a day, give or take, but never less than a dozen beers a day for about two months. The first night in that hotel, I experienced auditory hallucinations for the first time. I literally heard voices. The next few days were a perpetual anxiety attack and the nights were restless and hallucinatory. Yet, still, I convinced myself that it was not a problem. "It's got nothing to do with your drinking. You're just stressed about your dad," I told myself. In hindsight, the reality of the situation is so clear. Suffice to say, if you always have an excuse or explanation to your drinking, you may have a problem, but then again, maybe not. In the end, the designation of "addiction" is amorphous and highly subjective.

agreed 100% man, and i admire your willingness to share honestly in a forum like this. fucking mad props to you for dealing with your demons, especially at a young age. it sounds like you are definitely on the right track here. i think that addiction has an incredible ability to distort our own perception of ourselves; it's a pernicious evil.

that said, for many who have found health and strength in sobriety, there seems to be a tendency to project their experiences on to others. ie, "i also started down the path of addiction with one beer a night", or "if you have to have your coffee, you're an addict". well - maybe that's the case. i could well be an addict not yet aware of the problems i am facing, OR, i could have a habitual pattern that is not addictive in nature. i would refer to the questions i posted below as a general guide in making that assessment - answering yes to any of them would indicate addiction and not just habit IMO.

[stealurface831]

that said, for many who have found health and strength in sobriety, there seems to be a tendency to project their experiences on to others. ie, "i also started down the path of addiction with one beer a night", or "if you have to have your coffee, you're an addict".

Let me tell you, a lot of recovering alcoholics are some of the most arrogant pricks you will ever meet. They are essentially needy drunks, even while sober, with a sense of "better than thou" regarding their sobriety. They are also devoid of the entertaining aspects of intoxication. If you want to get wasted, get fucking wasted. I wish I could, too. Unless you are family or close enough with someone to talk about shitting while sober, let them drink until the wheels are about to fall off the wagon. A) you won't look like a pious asshole B) they will be more receptive after they have been humiliated

This video by The Onion tells it perfectly: "AA Destroying The Lives Of Thousands Of Once-Fun Americans"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n86JKqA8o4w

[shafty85]

With respect to coffee, I would think most people would have to answer 'yes' to your question regarding withdrawal symptoms. Again - this does not mean it is bad, but it is an addiction in my opinion.

I do agree that addiction is a nuanced concept/definition and comes in many forms and shapes. I also believe it is easy to dismiss something is a 'habit' simply because it is not rejected by society in the way hard drugs, hardcore alcoholics, etc are, as an example. - coffee and drinking a certain amount/volume/regularity are primarily amongst those that society has deemed arbitrarily appropriate but may actually be an addiction. I'm not here to tell people to stop drinking coffee/booze/whatever it is they choose to imbibe in and certainly not naïve enough to think people would listen if I were. I'm just, hopefully, pointing out an aspect that some people may not have considered when it comes to dependency and addiction.

[liv2ski]

Everything in moderation guys. Sure my moderation is more than yours, but that is fine, as I come from English / Scottish ancestry. The way this year is going, I am certain I will be raging hard the last 6 weeks of the year and then I will give my insides a rest in January. But you do October.

[Dantheman]

The first night in that hotel, I experienced auditory hallucinations for the first time. I literally heard voices. The next few days were a perpetual anxiety attack and the nights were restless and hallucinatory.

That's delerium tremens. See my previous post about alcohol, REM sleep, and DTs.

In the end, the designation of "addiction" is amorphous and highly subjective.

It's been pretty clearly defined by clinical psychiatry. Your drinking definitely qualified. Like tgapp noted, the key criteria is continuing the activity despite harmful consequences to your life. Behavioral addictions can destroy people's lives just as thoroughly as substance abuse.

[westoxified]

anyone still holding strong? coming up on two weeks in and definitely feeling some added watts on the bike. even went to just a cup of irish bfast in the am and staying off the aeropress. sleep has only improved slightly.

hate to go polyass on sober october but november is looking like it might have been the better choice. my last true sober october was 2000. that november was a trainwreck. thanks florida. this year's edition might be called negroni november.

[seano732]

Yep, Day 15.....I had a wicked, wicked craving on Day 7 for some reason, but other than that I'm plugging along. Halfway there!

[whyturn]

I like October. For me it’s sober anniversary and it was 19 years on the 6th. So for me it’s important


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[muted]

Yep, Day 15.....I had a wicked, wicked craving on Day 7 for some reason, but other than that I'm plugging along. Halfway there!

Nice work. I'm definitely feeling better overall.

[Gcooker]

Checking in - Feeling good, breezed through Thanksgiving long weekend with no issues which was pretty awesome. Energy is up and head is clearer in general. Looking forward to a cold pint in a few weeks!

[riser4]

Just here to report no drinks during October. :P

[tgapp]

I like October. For me it’s sober anniversary and it was 19 years on the 6th. So for me it’s important


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congrats dude, that's a helluva accomplishment!

[warthog]

Is it already October? How does semi sober November sound?

[Mofro261]

Cutback-tober has a better taste to it.

[warthog]

I have had a head cold for 4 days (non Covid but really sucky)
I have also switched almost primarily to Yuengling Flight which is absolutely the best tasting low cal beer I have ever had.

I am doing it more for the weight loss than an addiction worry. Though I get it. Some nights I look forward to those pops a little too much.

[2FUNKY]

Cutback-tober has a better taste to it.

That’s been my trip.

[glademaster]

Sticking to 1-2 beers per night, as usual.