Netflix: The social Dilemma (2020)

[Peruvian]

While true, and I agree, the social networks have magnified, in most cases, the worst of humanity. We're constantly baited to stay engaged and the algorithms, while not specifically designed to shove shit in our face, the human condition does that for us and the algorithms follow suit, roughly.

I'm not that old, but certainly I know that newspaper headlines, 'breaking news' announcements, 'exclusive interviews' and other such marketing have been used since the days of town criers.

[Kim Jong-un]

My Dear Americans,
Are you tired and confused by a myriad of news sources making it hard for you to separate truth from fiction? Do you long for the days of a single reliable news source with carefully curated and honest news? Well there is such a place in the beautiful DPRK. Our state newspapers and TV stations, now available in crystal clear 720p resolution, will keep you informed and up to date in national and world news. An enlightened populace is a happy populace, and the DPRK welcomes you to embrace the philosophy of Juche, where man is the ruler of his domain.

Sincerely,
Kim Jong-Un
Supreme Leader DPRK

[El Chupacabra]

My Dear Americans,
Are you tired and confused by a myriad of news sources making it hard for you to separate truth from fiction? Do you long for the days of a single reliable news source with carefully curated and honest news? Well there is such a place in the beautiful DPRK. Our state newspapers and TV stations, now available in crystal clear 720p resolution, will keep you informed and up to date in national and world news. An enlightened populace is a happy populace, and the DPRK welcomes you to embrace the philosophy of Juche, where man is the ruler of his domain.

Sincerely,
Kim Jong-Un
Supreme Leader DPRK

Suspiciously similar to AlpineZone Greg's posts...

[Timberridge]

Makes me wonder if AZ Greg is an agent of North Korea?

[AK47bp]

I'm not that old, but certainly I know that newspaper headlines, 'breaking news' announcements, 'exclusive interviews' and other such marketing have been used since the days of town criers.

Why do you love and stick up for your social media?





You addicted man?




Or could it be.................



SATAN!!


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[El Chupacabra]

Makes me wonder if AZ Greg is an agent of North Korea?

Makes me wonder if the DPRK is full of hot Italian Jersey babes?

[AK47bp]

Makes me wonder if the DPRK is full of hot Italian Jersey babes?

They’d all be really skinny with those Ed Hardy jeans slipping off those hips, sunken cheeks and big noses with that dark brittle hair due to malnutrition.

Hot.


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[fhw]

Meh - people used to choose what newspaper they read, what radio station to listen to, etc based on how it reported on the info that reflected their values or trusted either ABC, NBC, or CBS to tell them the 6 o’clock news.

I don't think their choice was nearly as ideological as it is now. ABC, NBC and CBS essentially reported the same facts and to the extent those facts got "spun", they were all spinning them more-or-less the same way. 24 hour cable news changed all that. Social media took that change and ran with it. But that's not really what the movie/docudrama is about.

Financial powerhouses have manipulated elections and politics in countries for years.

Meh, maybe. But not like is possible now with a smart phone glued to everyone's hands. And I guess I'd rather be manipulated by Merrill Lynch than by a foreign state with ICBMs.

[Timberridge]

Makes me wonder if the DPRK is full of hot Italian Jersey babes?

You certainly don't have to go all the way to N Korea. I can take you to Franklin Lakes next time you're in the area.

[Peruvian]

Meh, maybe. But not like is possible now with a smart phone glued to everyone's hands. And I guess I'd rather be manipulated by Merrill Lynch than by a foreign state with ICBMs.

I commented about 24 hr news above.

The issue was you weren’t just being manipulated by ML, but just as likely by the manufacturers of those ICBMs.

Here’s 2 minutes worth of google search -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mili...3media_complex

[rdhansss1998]

I deleted the grandmabook cause of this

[fhw]

The issue was you weren’t just being manipulated by ML, but just as likely by the manufacturers of those ICBMs.

Still better than being manipulated by a foreign state. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather that no one was manipulating me. But if I buy Ivory soap because I was sucked in by the advertising....so what? I was gonna buy soap anyway. And even if I wasn't, I'm out $1.37. And a little bit cleaner.

[TAFKALVS]

Just rambling, but...

Everything in our society will be driven by data collection and segmentation. Amazon pioneered this, and in the next 20 years we will all exist in our own niche universe of more and more tailored reality based on our preferences and choices.

My dad was an upper level marketing guy in a fortune 500 company 20 years ago, and they met with a database company who said "this is the future of marketing, you will know exactly who your customer and we will have predictive algorithms that allow you to reach your customer before they know they want the product".

I'd say it's safe to say that we're probably there now. The amount of data Facebook alone has on all of us is astounding. Tie that in with all the other tech giants and NSA stuff, and I don't think there is anything in our lives that isn't in a database somewhere being analyzed and exploited. At this point I'm not sure we can ever put the genie back in the bottle. Heck, if you move to North Idaho or Alaska (or whatever else "last free place") and get a flip phone, live off grid, avoid the internet etc, they still have your face mapped out on facial recognition software when you go to town and get filmed walking in to a grocery store, your flip phone is still has an account tied to Verizon which shares metadata, your car still pings Ford's servers for software updates on it's infotainment system, any banking you do is in a giant database, your house purchase is reported, and now you're flagged in the database as a crazy or subversive.

Facebook/Tinder/Instagram isn't the product. WE ARE THE PRODUCT. Just think about how Facebook seems to know what you're thinking about before you even search it. Zuckerberg is not in your brain physically but through the huge amount of data they can run very accurate predictions based on your patterns, and it sure feels that way sometime.

To add to the discussion: https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...es-hacked-sold

I'm personally a bit ambivalent about all of it. I agreed to the TOS for any of the apps I use (although many of the sign-ups where done 10+ years ago before I understood the implications) and I do find the tailored experience enjoyable in someways. And as an advertiser/marketer, Facebook has made me and companies I've worked for a lot of money because we aren't wasting precious dollars on the wrong people.

I am hopeful that perhaps a good side of Big Data will be solving some of the worlds problems like famine, drought, lack of rule of law, etc through better understanding and the merger of data science, technology, economics, natural science and government. But that also sounds like creepy new world order/one world government shit... ah.

I guess I need to move off grid. But I'm also starting a tech job in a week, working for a company that specializes in processing big data and connecting multiple streams in to one database. So I dunno, I guess I'm becoming one with the Borg.

Elon, you can implant my chip, I'm ready.

[TAFKALVS]

I deleted the grandmabook cause of this

But they still have your data, it will persist forever. They still have a profile on you, that has been shared and parsed by multiple 3rd party data companies and applications. And it's doesn't eliminate the data Google/Amazon/Time Warner/NSA/A Million 3rd Party Data Companies you've never heard of have anyways.

[Peruvian]

Still better than being manipulated by a foreign state. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather that no one was manipulating me. But if I buy Ivory soap because I was sucked in by the advertising....so what? I was gonna buy soap anyway. And even if I wasn't, I'm out $1.37. And a little bit cleaner.

Less than one minute via the Google - Foreign Governments Have Been Tampering With U.S. Elections for Decades

As I said above, everyone assumes they live in the best of times and the worst of times.

[TAFKALVS]

Tampering with foreign elections is our country's number 1 export, followed closely by fast-food chains and fighter jets.

[char_]

But they still have your data, it will persist forever. They still have a profile on you, that has been shared and parsed by multiple 3rd party data companies and applications. And it's doesn't eliminate the data Google/Amazon/Time Warner/NSA/A Million 3rd Party Data Companies you've never heard of have anyways.

I don't get this attitude.

You probably cannot stop generating data, but you can somewhat easily think about and minimize your data generation if you so choose.

Not having Facebook or Google accounts for example are easy choices. Not putting the latest app that is hoovering data on your phone is not difficult. Teaching your kids about how this information is collected and used against them is just responsible parenting.

Lots of this data collection and analysis could be used for great purposes, but it mainly seems to just serve to drive our capitalism system forward and enhance societal tensions and inequality, despite it's ability to do great things for our society. To that end, I see no reason why the US should not move towards or even past the EUs rules and regulations surrounding data generation and restrictions on companies exploiting that data with no financial reward to the generator of the data.

[fhw]

Less than one minute via the Google - Foreign Governments Have Been Tampering With U.S. Elections for Decades

And even that was a waste of time.

Seriously, I don't think that even begins to compare with what foreign governments can do now that we have tens of millions of our citizens compulsively surfing Facebook, Twitter and the like. At least in your example there was direct communication and cooperation from Americans (including a Presidential candidate); polluting people's news feeds or starting/fueling crazy conspiracy theories can be done with or without the knowledge or participation of a single American - much less a Presidential candidate. In my estimation it's just far, far more insidious.

Of course foreign governments have been forever trying to influence our elections (why wouldn't they?) but that's not really the point. Is it?

(Full disclosure: I already hate Facebook, always have and have never used it. I really don't care what you had for lunch yesterday or where you rode your bike. And frankly "tweeting" doesn't sound like something a fully grown adult should even be doing.)

[AK47bp]

Myanmar?

Buy a cell phone it comes loaded with Facebook as your internet. Government proliferates your news feeds and entertainment with anti-Muslim propaganda and starts a genocide and begins ethnic cleansing.

Nah..... harmless right? Those people didn’t have to look at their phones and be brainwashed, but they did.

I dare you to read the whole article

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/t...-genocide.html

Cue Peruvian with “before smart phones and Facebook they would of just used billboards and the radio”


Facebook should be held responsible in some way. I mean children were slaughtered.




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[TAFKALVS]

I don't get this attitude.

You probably cannot stop generating data, but you can somewhat easily think about and minimize your data generation if you so choose.

Not having Facebook or Google accounts for example are easy choices. Not putting the latest app that is hoovering data on your phone is not difficult. Teaching your kids about how this information is collected and used against them is just responsible parenting.

Lots of this data collection and analysis could be used for great purposes, but it mainly seems to just serve to drive our capitalism system forward and enhance societal tensions and inequality, despite it's ability to do great things for our society. To that end, I see no reason why the US should not move towards or even past the EUs rules and regulations surrounding data generation and restrictions on companies exploiting that data with no financial reward to the generator of the data.

But Google and Facebook have your information regardless of if you have an account with them, especially Google. If you have an Android phone = Google owns your shit.

There's a very good chance that nearly every app on your phone is "hoovering up your data", not just the obvious social media apps.

Even on TGR here there's 6 third party data trackers running, (Edit: after shutting off my tracker blocking extension, I count 39 third party trackers running) watching your usage patterns and what you're doing on the website. They watch what URL you come from, and what URL you go to. Chances are, you click a link from TGR to another site and there will be many dozens of similar data tracking applications, again watching you. They all have their own way of tracking who you are, whether it be through a "cookie" or through a IP, device ID, geo-location, a random ID or whatever other combination of unique data they have created to create a unique signature. Your clicks, key stokes, time on site, visit times, topics engaged with, number of clicks, and so on are all in multiple GIANT multi-billion entry databases that are all slowly creating a picture of who user_id "23738347hjahj78477847847875jf&$fj" is and what that user_id wants to buy. And it just so happens when "x" tech company buys/merges with "y" tech company that data is shared, and it turns out user_id "23738347hjahj78477847847875jf&$fj" is actually also user_id "37348734783478ufuh8484" and an even more complete picture is created.

We were too accepting of connected tech early and it's a "frog in the boiling water" type scenario. I really don't know if we can go back. Similar to tax avoidance, if the US took a more stringent approach to data privacy, all that is going to happen is Google et all will headquarter in a "Luxembourg" type "Data Haven" country where the environment is more favorable. The US government has been in partnership with big tech for 20+ years or more. No one in our government wants the data stream to go away... and besides, tech companies have all the leverage. They know if they really needed to protect their interests, they could dump data on every congress-critter and executive branch member and trigger a national revolt. They know what secret back room deals have been discussed or what porn Senator Whomever from Anywhere, Kansas likes to watch at 1am on the campaign trail... it's all in a database somewhere.

Tech companies are never going to give the data back. Data = power in the emerging world order we're headed towards.

[char_]

But Google and Facebook have your information regardless of if you have an account with them, especially Google. If you have an Android phone = Google owns your shit.

There's a very good chance that nearly every app on your phone is "hoovering up your data", not just the obvious social media apps.

Even on TGR here there's 6 third party data trackers running, watching your usage patterns and what you're doing on the website. They watch what URL you come from, and what URL you go to. Chances are, you click a link from TGR to another site and there will be many dozens of similar data tracking applications, again watching you. They all have their own way of tracking who you are, whether it be through a "cookie" or through a IP, device ID, geo-location, a random ID or whatever other combination of unique data they have created to create a unique signature. Your clicks, key stokes, time on site, visit times, topics engaged with, number of clicks, and so on are all in multiple GIANT multi-billion entry databases that are all slowly creating a picture of who user_id "23738347hjahj78477847847875jf&$fj" is and what that user_id wants to buy. And it just so happens when "x" tech company buys/merges with "y" tech company that data is shared, and it turns out user_id "23738347hjahj78477847847875jf&$fj" is actually also user_id "37348734783478ufuh8484" and an even more complete picture is created.

We were too accepting of connected tech early and it's a "frog in the boiling water" type scenario. I really don't know if we can go back. Similar to tax avoidance, if the US took a more stringent approach to data privacy, all that is going to happen is Google et all will headquarter in a "Luxembourg" type "Data Haven" country where the environment is more favorable. The US government has been in partnership with big tech for 20+ years or more. No one in our government wants the data stream to go away... and besides, tech companies have all the leverage. They know if they really needed to protect their interests, they could dump data on every congress-critter and executive branch member and trigger a national revolt. They know what secret back room deals have been discussed or what porn Senator Whomever from Anywhere, Kansas likes to watch at 1am on the campaign trail... it's all in a database somewhere.

Tech companies are never going to give the data back. Data = power in the emerging world order we're headed towards.

I am aware of this. Although I do appreciate you laying this out for people who might not understand.

If anything it reinforces my point that at this point the only thing you can do is minimize your data generation until Congress acts. Which they probably won't.

[TAFKALVS]

I am aware of this. Although I do appreciate you laying this out for people who might not understand.

If anything it reinforces my point that at this point the only thing you can do is minimize your data generation until Congress acts. Which they probably won't.

Thanks.

I guess in my opinion the only way to minimize is to go full Luddite, and even then it's hard to say how disconnected you can actually get. I do use Signal for SMS and am trying to move away from Facebook, etc, but it's hard to avoid, and I know I'm only using ad blockers and Signal because I want to virtue signal. The 6800 posts on TGR and countless hours wasted on social media, not to mention the first 10 years of MySpace/Facebook where there was unfettered data collection and no data encryption happening, thousands of dollars spent on Amazon... there's probably a pretty damn good profile of who I am and what I like at this point. In fact, I bet the Tech companies know me better than I know me.

After reloading the TGR page with my privacy tool (Ghostery) (more virtue signalling I guess, mostly installed because I like websites to not crash my browser due to ad load) disabled, there are 51 trackers on this website, all feeding data to only God know who and where:

[AK47bp]

^ interesting. I guess we’re not only tools, we’re products too.


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[seano732]

^ interesting. I guess we’re not only tools, we’re products too.


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I think that's ^^^^^ a verbatim quote from the movie.

[Peruvian]

Myanmar?

Buy a cell phone it comes loaded with Facebook as your internet. Government proliferates your news feeds and entertainment with anti-Muslim propaganda and starts a genocide and begins ethnic cleansing.

Nah..... harmless right? Those people didn’t have to look at their phones and be brainwashed, but they did.

I dare you to read the whole article

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/t...-genocide.html

Cue Peruvian with “before smart phones and Facebook they would of just used billboards and the radio”


Facebook should be held responsible in some way. I mean children were slaughtered.




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You do understand the history of Myanmar when it was Burma way before social media was a thing, right?