Drink the Depression Away Cleveland Browns Support Group

[Danno]

That's like a Matthew Stafford trade.

[BmillsSkier]

I’d take Stafford for this 1-3 year window in a heartbeat.

[BmillsSkier]

On a serious note, Doug Dieken, longtime color man for the Browns radio network and a member of the organization for 50 years as a player and a broadcaster, is stepping down on Sunday.

You may recognize him from his play by play call of Baker around his house at First Energy Stadium on tv this year.

Thanks Diek, a true Cleveland Brown if there ever was one.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/202...rry-pluto.html

[EWG]

Wow. Yeah, dude is a true Brown.

[SumJongGuy]

On a serious note, Doug Dieken, longtime color man for the Browns radio network and a member of the organization for 50 years as a player and a broadcaster, is stepping down on Sunday.

You may recognize him from his play by play call of Baker around his house at First Energy Stadium on tv this year.

Thanks Diek, a true Cleveland Brown if there ever was one.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/202...rry-pluto.html

Those commercials are hilarious! I wanna see Baker host SNL.

[BmillsSkier]

Wow. Yeah, dude is a true Brown.

This stat line is nuts for Diek as well as the Browns organization given future Hall of Famer and fellow Left Tackle, Joe Thomas’ streak of 11 seasons, zero snaps missed, for a total of 10,373.

“Dieken was behind Dick Schafrath, not making his first start until Nov. 12, 1971. His final start was Dec. 16, 1984. He never missed a game, 203 consecutive starts.”

[BmillsSkier]

It was nice to listen to the game today and Doug Dieken’s final radio call. Solid win. This team has so much talent and they’ve got a chance to put it all back together one more time next year. I’d really like to see Clowney come back again as he and Myles Garrett are an incredible duo on that D line.

Now, on to familiar territory: off-season hand-wringing and reckless speculation.

Go Browns.

[lifelinksplit]

I bet y'all could get a trubisky/glennon package deal. Man, Biscuits and the gingeraffe, think of the possibilities!!



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using TGR Forums mobile app

[BmillsSkier]

Is Andy Dalton not available as well?

I think you have to give Baker this next option year healthy and then that’s it. I don’t see them going after RW or A-aron but they could given the window of opportunity they have right now with all this talent. That and Jimmy Haslam is kind of like Crazy Uncle Jimmy from News Radio - all money and impulse.

They’ve got one of the best O lines in football locked up. Nick Chubb, Myles Garrett, Kareem Hunt, all locked up. Gotta sign Denzel Ward and probably David Njoku to big extensions but they’re still way under the cap (that should go up again).

[shafty85]

I think you have to give Baker this next option year healthy and then that’s it.

This is the type of mentality the mires franchises in mediocrity. The only reason the Browns should consider giving Baker another season is if they can't get anyone better. Mediocre teams love to provide excuses for why players don't perform to expectations rather than holding players accountable. Baker is an average/below average QB who was over-drafted.

Year QBR (rank) [PAA] (rank) PAA = pts contributed vs average QB
2018 51.2 (23rd) [5.3] (20th)
2019 54.4 (19th) [2.3] (21st)
2020 65.5 (10th) [26.1] (12th)
2021 35.2 (27th) [-23.3] (26th)

He has had one good season (in which he was borderline top 10, so above average but not 'good') out of 4. There is nothing, aside from blind hope, that shows he is, or will be, a 'good' QB. The Hoody has proven it to be right again and again - it's better to move off a player too early than too late. If the Browns can't find someone to improve the QB position, I agree; keep Baker. A lateral move at the position makes little sense given his impending cap hit. But, management should expect another season of mediocrity from Baker and continue planning toward the future and do everything they can to get a better QB as quickly as possible.

[BmillsSkier]

Wait, borderline top 10 is not “good”?

You reinforce my point in your first paragraph, there is no better QB for them right now or in the draft so they have to ride with him one more year (they’re not going to go get RW or AR).

[jono]

RW is not interested in playing with that O-line. AR could be a maybe?

[BmillsSkier]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that O line is one of the best in the game and locked up long term. Little dinged up to end the season, but they weren't kidding anyone trying to get back on the field at that point.

You can tell how damaged a fan base is when the callers to sportstalk shows are on the fence or flat out against about bringing in a 1-2 year mercenary QB to potentially win a 'ship because he wouldn't be "their" guy.

[EWG]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that O line is one of the best in the game and locked up long term. Little dinged up to end the season, but they weren't kidding anyone trying to get back on the field at that point.

You can tell how damaged a fan base is when the callers to sportstalk shows are on the fence or flat out against about bringing in a 1-2 year mercenary QB to potentially win a 'ship because he wouldn't be "their" guy.

"damaged" doesn't even begin to describe it.

All this Carr talk is worrying me. Carr's stats over his first 4 years are almost identical to Baker's. He then made a little jump. Baker has pieces falling off him, so that might impact things a bit.

He's also extremely comparable to Brees in his early career, right down to the torn labrum and a really bad year 4.

Of course, then Brees changed teams and exploded. And that's what I'm nervous about.

Brees RTG with Chargers starting in 2002: 76.9, 67.5, 104.8, 89.2 (hurts shoulder at age 26)
Then with Saints: 96.2, 89.4, 96.2, 109.6, 90.9, 110.6, 96.3, 104.7, 97.0 then over 100 for the rest of his career.

Baker RTG starting in 2018: 93.7, 78.8, 95.9, 83.1 (hurts shoulder at age 26)

It is possible - and hear me out on this - that it takes time to learn how to QB in the NFL. And that shoulder injuries are challenging for QBs.

Tom Brady - first 9 years, 2 RTG years over 92, 1 over 96 (year 7).

Carr starting in 2014 (rookie) 76.6, 91.1, 96.7, 86.4, 93.9, 100.8, 101.4, 94.0 (this year)

Roethlisberger went 98.1, 98,6, 75.4, 104.1, 80.1, then for the next 11 years was never under 90.

Yeah. Maybe sometimes QB takes time to learn. Maybe. Just saying.

[BmillsSkier]

I think some are just so addicted to the QB carousel that all this relative stability has them making statements and demands that are less than thought out, or even lucid about the direction they want the team to go at the position.

Mark my words, if they part ways with Baker this offseason, he will come back and crush it with some other team. Except the Jets, there's no helping them and they already have "the future" in Mike White.

[Timberridge]

Fyi. Jets fans are back on the Wilson bandwagon.

Some positive stats that Jets fans are excited about today: ZW was the teams leading rusher with 24 forward yards last evening, although I think he may have run at least 3X that backwards. And while he only threw for 87 yards, he had no INTs.

Another name to throw in the hat. I have a feeling that another former J-E-T-S QB now with Carolina may be available in the offseason.

[BmillsSkier]

Fyi. Jets fans are back on the Wilson bandwagon.

Some positive stats that Jets fans are excited about today: ZW was the teams leading rusher with 24 forward yards last evening, although I think he may have run at least 3X that backwards. And while he only threw for 87 yards, he had no INTs.

Another name to throw in the hat. I have a feeling that another former J-E-T-S QB now with Carolina may be available in the offseason.

Man that guy has a strong forehead. I'm not so sure two bites at the 2018 QB draft class is the play for the Browns, but you never know.

Take a look at how that class has shaped up so far. Lamar and Josh Allen have been home runs, Baker has been squarely in the middle - two good years and two bad years, then you've got Darnold who was traded to Carolina for a bucket of balls and Rosen who is on his 5th NFL roster. Oh, and there's also Mason Rudolph who got beat in the head with his own helmet by a member of the Browns.

What a group.

[jono]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that O line is one of the best in the game and locked up long term. Little dinged up to end the season, but they weren't kidding anyone trying to get back on the field at that point.

If they're gonna be healthy, capable and under long term contracts RW's gonna need to be somewhere else. That's not what he's looking for.

[BmillsSkier]

If they're gonna be healthy, capable and under long term contracts RW's gonna need to be somewhere else. That's not what he's looking for.

Ah, gotcha. That whooshing sound was the dig flying right over my head.

[shafty85]

Wait, borderline top 10 is not “good”?

You reinforce my point in your first paragraph, there is no better QB for them right now or in the draft so they have to ride with him one more year (they’re not going to go get RW or AR).

For me, solidly top 10 is 'good'. 'Borderline top 10' (ie. 10/11/12 in comprehensive stats) is middle of the pack. There are 31 teams. bottom 11 are 'bad' QBs. 11-20 are 'average' and 4-10 are 'good' and 1-3 are 'elite'. Not the be-all-end-all, just how I view it.

Having Baker there thinking he could still be 'the' guy is different than having him back because you have no option but realize he isn't 'the' guy are are actively trying to find someone to be 'the' guy. The mindset is different. Hopefully, for Browns fans' sake, they are of the latter mindset. I've spent a long time in mediocrity as a Vikings fan and hate to see others travel down the same path of frustration. As someone mentioned above - it's the hope that kills you slowly.

[BmillsSkier]

Browns' opponents for next season were released today:

Home
Ravens

Bengals

Chargers

Patriots

Saints

Jets

Steelers

Buccaneers

Away
Falcons

Ravens

Bills

Panthers

Bengals

Texans

Dolphins

Steelers

Washington


Finally, a Battle of Lake Erie, even if it's in Orchard Park. I hope it's a total blizzard that day and the fans are lively and inebriated.

Most importantly, the Brownies are coming to ATL so I'll finally get a chance to see them without an airplane. Who knows, maybe Matt Ryan will be wearing brown and orange that day as a thanks to all the loyal dirty birds fans.

[Timberridge]

According to GM, Baker's staying.

[jorion]

So much handwringing about Baker…what do you all think of stefanski?

The only two Browns games I saw this year were the Steelers games and I was really confused by the coaching decisions in both games, namely the balance of passing vs running. Chubb is incredible and the Steelers run defense this season was incredibly awful, but there was Baker and his torn labrum dropping back two out of every three plays so that TJ Watt could beat the crap out of him. Yeah Chubb was a little banged up in the second game I guess, but still, other teams had some pretty mediocre backs thriving against the Steelers this year.

IMO Baker is too young to give up on. He’s clearly not as good as Burrow or the best version of Lamar at this point, but that’s a high bar. I see enough positives that if it were me I’d want to run it back a year and see if he can get healthy and grow.

[EWG]

So much handwringing about Baker…what do you all think of stefanski?

The only two Browns games I saw this year were the Steelers games and I was really confused by the coaching decisions in both games, namely the balance of passing vs running. Chubb is incredible and the Steelers run defense this season was incredibly awful, but there was Baker and his torn labrum dropping back two out of every three plays so that TJ Watt could beat the crap out of him. Yeah Chubb was a little banged up in the second game I guess, but still, other teams had some pretty mediocre backs thriving against the Steelers this year.

IMO Baker is too young to give up on. He’s clearly not as good as Burrow or the best version of Lamar at this point, but that’s a high bar. I see enough positives that if it were me I’d want to run it back a year and see if he can get healthy and grow.

Agree. I think it usually takes time to learn to coach in the NFL. Stefanski botched a bunch of stuff this year, but he'll learn (I hope.) Here's how many games Belichick won in each of his first 6 years: 6,7,7,11,5,5. People have no patience.

[BmillsSkier]

According to GM, Baker's staying.

Would you look at that. Hello, old friend.

May the w—>e wind continue to blow true through the Playoffs.

So much handwringing about Baker…what do you all think of stefanski?

The only two Browns games I saw this year were the Steelers games and I was really confused by the coaching decisions in both games, namely the balance of passing vs running. Chubb is incredible and the Steelers run defense this season was incredibly awful, but there was Baker and his torn labrum dropping back two out of every three plays so that TJ Watt could beat the crap out of him. Yeah Chubb was a little banged up in the second game I guess, but still, other teams had some pretty mediocre backs thriving against the Steelers this year.

IMO Baker is too young to give up on. He’s clearly not as good as Burrow or the best version of Lamar at this point, but that’s a high bar. I see enough positives that if it were me I’d want to run it back a year and see if he can get healthy and grow.

Agree. I think it usually takes time to learn to coach in the NFL. Stefanski botched a bunch of stuff this year, but he'll learn (I hope.) Here's how many games Belichick won in each of his first 6 years: 6,7,7,11,5,5. People have no patience.

Both great points, which is why we’ll see Baker and Stefanski back next year. And that’s a good thing.