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  1. #1501
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    Under specific circumstances , the contract might be voidable, but those picks are gone.

  2. #1502
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile View Post
    Under specific circumstances , the contract might be voidable, but those picks are gone.
    All I know is that Andrew Berry, Harvard grad and Browns GM, stated that they have the ability to avoid the trade under certain circumstances when asked a month or so ago when the conduct review went to Sue L. Robinson, but declined to go into specifics.
    I still call it The Jake.

  3. #1503
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile View Post
    Under specific circumstances , the contract might be voidable, but those picks are gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    All I know is that Andrew Berry, Harvard grad and Browns GM, stated that they have the ability to avoid the trade under certain circumstances when asked a month or so ago when the conduct review went to Sue L. Robinson, but declined to go into specifics.
    I think the Browns need to be penalized for this in some way. I know that's not going to sit well with Bmills, but intentionally agreeing to structure a contract the way they did, whether they can wiggle out of it or not, should come with repercussions if only to dissuade teams from doing this again. It's taking a power away from the league to impose punishment on members of the NFL which seems like something Goodell would not like.

    That said, if the outcome of this is that Watson's contract is voided then so be it. What happens to the picks for Houston? They just get nothing? Would be fine as the outcome to me, but I'm sure that franchise wouldn't appreciate that outcome.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  4. #1504
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    I'm not buying it Bmills. We've been over this before; the Browns knew what they were signing up for in the player, and they knew the league investigation was not over. Buyer beware.
    The Texans already started cashing in those draft picks, and the league has no incentive to return anything to the Browns.
    Just like Deebo told Red, the Texans get to say "These are my picks now punk!"

  5. #1505
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    Oh, I don't think it's likely that they do anything with Deshaun's contract or try to avoid the trade, Jimmy Haslam has 5 years of Deshaun Watson and that's all he cares about. All I know is that they have the ability (so says Mary Kay Cabot, Andrew Berry, et. al.) to get out of either to some extent. Like I said though, pretty unlikely they do anything.

    Adolf: No way the league penalizes the Browns for structuring their contract the way they did. What basis would they have to do so? How would the other 31 owners like that? The Browns didn't violate any league rules so that's just wishful thinking. If any team should get punished, maybe they should look to the one that just settled a bunch of civil suits with these same women accusing Deshaun?

    Jimmy G to CLE makes so much sense for this team right now while they can swing it with cap space.

    As I type, I just heard this on the radio: Get ready for the Clemson Classic this Friday night in JAX: Deshaun vs. Trevor Lawrence.

    Which of course means that it's guaranteed that the NFL suspends him for a year+ tomorrow.
    I still call it The Jake.

  6. #1506
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    Oh, I don't think it's likely that they do anything with Deshaun's contract or try to avoid the trade, Jimmy Haslam has 5 years of Deshaun Watson and that's all he cares about. All I know is that they have the ability (so says Mary Kay Cabot, Andrew Berry, et. al.) to get out of either to some extent. Like I said though, pretty unlikely they do anything.

    Adolf: No way the league penalizes the Browns for structuring their contract the way they did. What basis would they have to do so? How would the other 31 owners like that? The Browns didn't violate any league rules so that's just wishful thinking. If any team should get punished, maybe they should look to the one that just settled a bunch of civil suits with these same women accusing Deshaun?

    Jimmy G to CLE makes so much sense for this team right now while they can swing it with cap space.

    As I type, I just heard this on the radio: Get ready for the Clemson Classic this Friday night in JAX: Deshaun vs. Trevor Lawrence.

    Which of course means that it's guaranteed that the NFL suspends him for a year+ tomorrow.
    I don't wish for the Browns to be penalized, so it's not wishful thinking. I think the NFL needs to penalize them otherwise we're just going to see more of this fuckery. How would the other 31 teams like that? I'd say they would like it a lot because it avoids dealing with anticipated suspensions contractually. But as hatchgreenchile says, the Browns knew what they were getting into with Watson...hence why they structured the contract the way they did. And absolutely Houston should get penalized by the NFL...if the NFL is serious about trying to keep this stuff from happening.

    He shouldn't be playing football or even be in the league IMO for a couple of years. Shit, they suspended Josh Gordon 2 years for smoking weed...but sexually assaulting women gets you only 6 games? Doesn't that seem a little fucked up?

    I think Jimmy G makes so much sense for them...and actually the browns should hope for 2 years suspension. If he gets bumped up to 1 year that only means his contract starts next year instead of this year, right?
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  7. #1507
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    A few things:

    It is common practice to back load contracts for salary cap purposes. In fact, so many teams do what the Browns did with a tiny first year salary and a big bonus that there are specific rules for how the bonus gets split up among the years of the contract. You do it so that you push the salary cap hold into later years, when you have a larger cap. It also allows you to punt the problem down the road, and then backload contracts again then. Closer to home, the Patriots were talking about bringing Amari Cooper in on a backloaded contract before he was traded to the Browns. As a real world example, when the Chiefs signed Sammy Watkins in 2018, his first year contract value was 799k. Year two was almost 12 million. Year three was almost 14 million. So this noise about the Watson contract being this unique thing crafted only to avoid paying fines if he's suspended is just total media fabrication. Yes, it has that effect, but this is totally common practice and the NFL has cap rules for dealing with it.

    I hate that I now have to root for a team with Watson on it. It sucks. But it's almost like they are my family at this point. Fucking family. It's really hard to leave them.

    Apparently Baker is really impressing people at Carolina's practices. Goddamn it. I want Baker back.

    As much as I'm super fucking pissed the Brown's signed Watson, I have no idea why they would be punished by the NFL. They didn't do anything against the rules or the code of conduct. Both Watson and the Texans, however...

    And that's another thing. Regardless of how his contract is set up, just fine the fucking guy. And find a way within the league rules to have his huge fine go directly to sexual assault support groups and education. Why would this be hard? 50 million would help that cause out quite a bit, I'd think.

    Lastly, we will keep bringing up this "voiding the contract" thing because, at this point, that outcome is essentially Browns fans' equivalent of winning the super bowl. It's all we have to dream of.

    Oh - actually this is last: Hatch, yeah, that dig was a little unnecessary. We so recently had hope. It gave us nerve endings again. That was so painful I read it like 5 times. 2 years ago it wouldn't really have hurt. A year from now we'll probably be numb from depression again. But right now? Straight pain man. Be kind.

  8. #1508
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    A few things:

    It is common practice to back load contracts for salary cap purposes. In fact, so many teams do what the Browns did with a tiny first year salary and a big bonus that there are specific rules for how the bonus gets split up among the years of the contract. You do it so that you push the salary cap hold into later years, when you have a larger cap. It also allows you to punt the problem down the road, and then backload contracts again then. Closer to home, the Patriots were talking about bringing Amari Cooper in on a backloaded contract before he was traded to the Browns. As a real world example, when the Chiefs signed Sammy Watkins in 2018, his first year contract value was 799k. Year two was almost 12 million. Year three was almost 14 million. So this noise about the Watson contract being this unique thing crafted only to avoid paying fines if he's suspended is just total media fabrication. Yes, it has that effect, but this is totally common practice and the NFL has cap rules for dealing with it.

    I hate that I now have to root for a team with Watson on it. It sucks. But it's almost like they are my family at this point. Fucking family. It's really hard to leave them.

    Apparently Baker is really impressing people at Carolina's practices. Goddamn it. I want Baker back.

    As much as I'm super fucking pissed the Brown's signed Watson, I have no idea why they would be punished by the NFL. They didn't do anything against the rules or the code of conduct. Both Watson and the Texans, however...

    And that's another thing. Regardless of how his contract is set up, just fine the fucking guy. And find a way within the league rules to have his huge fine go directly to sexual assault support groups and education. Why would this be hard? 50 million would help that cause out quite a bit, I'd think.

    Lastly, we will keep bringing up this "voiding the contract" thing because, at this point, that outcome is essentially Browns fans' equivalent of winning the super bowl. It's all we have to dream of.

    Oh - actually this is last: Hatch, yeah, that dig was a little unnecessary. We so recently had hope. It gave us nerve endings again. That was so painful I read it like 5 times. 2 years ago it wouldn't really have hurt. A year from now we'll probably be numb from depression again. But right now? Straight pain man. Be kind.
    Yeah, i'm aware of backloaded contracts. This situation probably isn't the Sammy Watkins flavor you speak of, would you agree? I think it's pretty naïve to think all these "Harvard" educated lawyers writing contracts didn't consider one bit that Watson could be suspended for a period of time, instead backloading the contract for salary cap purposes only. So my point stands...the NFL will want to intervene to keep this type of fuckery from happening more often.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    Yeah, i'm aware of backloaded contracts. This situation probably isn't the Sammy Watkins flavor you speak of, would you agree? I think it's pretty naïve to think all these "Harvard" educated lawyers writing contracts didn't consider one bit that Watson could be suspended for a period of time, instead backloading the contract for salary cap purposes only. So my point stands...the NFL will want to intervene to keep this type of fuckery from happening more often.
    Well, the Browns' new contract with Denzel Ward has the following amounts in each year starting in 2022
    1 mil
    4 mil
    15 mil
    13 mil
    17 mil
    17 mil

    The Browns' Myles Garret contract per year starting in 2022
    1 mil
    17 mil
    20 mil
    15 mil
    20 mil

    The Browns' Nick Chubb contract per year starting in 2022
    1 mil
    11 mil
    12 mil

    So no, I do not think avoiding a fine for Watson was the main purpose of that salary structure from the team perspective.

  10. #1510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    I don't wish for the Browns to be penalized, so it's not wishful thinking. I think the NFL needs to penalize them otherwise we're just going to see more of this fuckery. How would the other 31 teams like that? I'd say they would like it a lot because it avoids dealing with anticipated suspensions contractually. But as hatchgreenchile says, the Browns knew what they were getting into with Watson...hence why they structured the contract the way they did. And absolutely Houston should get penalized by the NFL...if the NFL is serious about trying to keep this stuff from happening.

    He shouldn't be playing football or even be in the league IMO for a couple of years. Shit, they suspended Josh Gordon 2 years for smoking weed...but sexually assaulting women gets you only 6 games? Doesn't that seem a little fucked up?

    I think Jimmy G makes so much sense for them...and actually the browns should hope for 2 years suspension. If he gets bumped up to 1 year that only means his contract starts next year instead of this year, right?
    I don't disagree with what you're saying at all (and didn't mean that you personally were wishing the Browns got penalized, it was the proverbial "wishful thinking").

    Yes, all of this is fucked up, which is why I hate it as a fan.

    Just get Jimmy G and let this shit play out in the background. I just want to take advantage of their window of opportunity while they can this year. Jimmy get them that. Shit, Baker got them that but spilled milk and all...
    I still call it The Jake.

  11. #1511
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    Drink the Depression Away Cleveland Browns Support Group

    If Watson was fined $1M, that would be unprecedented for a player. I don't think that was a factor in the contract structure, just some standard salary cap funny business.

    For reference, Bountygate, Spygate and the Dolphins tank + tamper job were fined $500,000 - $1,500,000, plus the draft picks. Only one player, Jamal Lewis, has cracked $500,000.

    Voidable trade? No chance. Voidable contract? Maybe.

    EWG - I twisted the knife, my apologies. I edited the post to say it's a dick comment. I expect you to pay it back, with interest, when the Bills become bottom feeders again.

  12. #1512
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    Well, the Browns' new contract with Denzel Ward has the following amounts in each year starting in 2022
    1 mil
    4 mil
    15 mil
    13 mil
    17 mil
    17 mil

    The Browns' Myles Garret contract per year starting in 2022
    1 mil
    17 mil
    20 mil
    15 mil
    20 mil

    The Browns' Nick Chubb contract per year starting in 2022
    1 mil
    11 mil
    12 mil

    So no, I do not think avoiding a fine for Watson was the main purpose of that salary structure from the team perspective.
    Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    I don't disagree with what you're saying at all (and didn't mean that you personally were wishing the Browns got penalized, it was the proverbial "wishful thinking").

    Yes, all of this is fucked up, which is why I hate it as a fan.

    Just get Jimmy G and let this shit play out in the background. I just want to take advantage of their window of opportunity while they can this year. Jimmy get them that. Shit, Baker got them that but spilled milk and all...
    I hear you. I'm a Bears fan and while not quite as bad of a losing situation as Cleveland historically, they've had their moments and the future looks bleak...but I would feel the same way about the Bears franchise signing Watson.

    I think they'd be pretty good with Jimmy for a year or two.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  13. #1513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post

    I think they'd be pretty good with Jimmy for a year or two.
    I mean, can we all just realize that all BMills and I want is Jimmy G? Is that so much to ask?

    Goddamn this while thing. And yes, I realize that our woe is nothing compared to what all these women had to endure, so goddamn this whole thing for all the victims too..

  14. #1514
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    And now two reports:

    Watson's camp seems to be floating that he'd be ok 8 games and a 5 mil fine. Reeking of desperation?

    May Kat reporting that the Browns are now open to Jimmy G if Watson is out. Here we go! Jimmy G, come on down!

  15. #1515
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    And now two reports:

    Watson's camp seems to be floating that he'd be ok 8 games and a 5 mil fine. Reeking of desperation?

    May Kat reporting that the Browns are now open to Jimmy G if Watson is out. Here we go! Jimmy G, come on down!
    Both those reports were enough to stoke the radio waves all day.

    Well, that and your first place Guardians.

    This is too good, most loyal fans in the league (as memed up by the organization)

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    I still call it The Jake.

  16. #1516
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    Disappointing they didn’t photoshop in a Great Lakes. Otherwise awesome.

  17. #1517
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    Disappointing they didn’t photoshop in a Great Lakes. Otherwise awesome.
    Right? Missed opportunity right there.

    I think that graphic says something about the fan base’s Stockholm Syndrome.
    I still call it The Jake.

  18. #1518
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    Kaep? Yay or nay?
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  19. #1519
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    Page 36 or so. I said why not at that point I think.

    Who knows what it would take to get him up to speed though.
    I still call it The Jake.

  20. #1520
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    Right? Missed opportunity right there.

    I think that graphic says something about the fan base’s Stockholm Syndrome.
    That says home and away? I assume that’s not all Browns fans traveling, so I think it’s safe to say the Browns are now America’s team.

  21. #1521
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyCarter View Post
    That says home and away? I assume that’s not all Browns fans traveling, so I think it’s safe to say the Browns are now America’s team.
    America loves the underdog.

    And a redemption story.

    And a comeback.

    And a tragic ending.

    And a dumpster fire.

    And, eventually, a winner.

    Not necessarily all of that in order.
    I still call it The Jake.

  22. #1522
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    Pay for jimmy g when you had a cheap baker mayfield


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  23. #1523
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBdude View Post
    Pay for jimmy g when you had a cheap baker mayfield


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    You’re clearly not familiar with The Browns Way...

    Also, me and EWG wanted Baker first and foremost. Unfortunately, for both sides, when they actually made a run at Watson that killed the marriage.
    I still call it The Jake.

  24. #1524
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyCarter View Post
    That says home and away? I assume that’s not all Browns fans traveling, so I think it’s safe to say the Browns are now America’s team.
    That’s home teams wanting to go see their team win.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  25. #1525
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    They better grab Jimmy G before NYG do, Daniel Jones is stinking up New Jersey.

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