Canada

[XXX-er]

Agreed. And what matters, at least Imo

1. US lacks a state and / or national strategy ; and

2. Even if the US developed such a strategy a significant portion of the population is so batshit crazy such strategy would not be followed

what lee sez ^^

it doesnt really matter if there is an enclave of non-batshit crazy people somewhere in the USA

all 320 million of you are in it togetehr and get tarred with the same brush

as for opennning the border for reasons of the filthy Lucre it is still open to the > 2billion in trade every day

so as long as we trade products we don't need you to show up in person to trade germs

[XXX-er]

XXX-er likes to bring up the total death toll a lot, but that's pretty much water under the bridge. What should matter is the current situation in each country and what measures each country is taking to prevent the spread of COVID-19 going forward.

the death total screams don't trust me

as don trump always sez " I like winners "

[yeahman]

it doesnt really matter if there is an enclave of non-batshit crazy people somewhere in the USA

Lulz. Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you left Canada?

[XXX-er]

pulled the plug on Singapore in feb,

did spain & portugal a couple years ago, bali, korea, ski japan, bike tour france, bike tour the camino in northern spain, england

Moab last year and i'm just glad we made it out of Utah alive,

momo zombies ripped my flesh, almost

[ex-powderbroker]

Alberta is at 23. And if we look at deaths per million in last seven days, Alberta is at 0.3. NY is 0.2, Colorado at 0.3, Utah at 0.4, and WA and OR at 0.5.

Despite Lee Lau's claim of social cohesion and strategy, when this all said and done, I think the healthier, younger, and more progressive states in the US (such as WA, OR, and CO) will have similar numbers as Alberta and BC. UT is not progressive but they are young and healthy (blame the Mormons).

Pretty much every province is on par with the best states at the moment, and the worst states are way worse. It's a federal issue and until things settle out I would be really surprised if they worked out anything a la carte so people in Washington or wherever could go to Revy. At some point maybe people will start to look at the economic fallout and long after tourism dollars but until then the USA has had 6.5 million cases, Canada has 37 million people, and most people are going to look at those numbers and say 'No, thank you'.

Did you notice that the whole block from Texas to SC is over 4 per million? Why would anyone want to rush?

Oh yeah, cops in Quebec now have the ability to hand out tickets to anyone not wearing a mask where required, but the case count is ticking up.

Shit like this will not help, and there are more than a few DjFT banners that were spotted:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...real-1.5722033

[The AD]

Agreed. And what matters, at least Imo

1. US lacks a state and / or national strategy ; and

2. Even if the US developed such a strategy a significant portion of the population is so batshit crazy such strategy would not be followed

If we'd had #1 from the start then maybe we'd have a small chance at #2 not happening, but since we didn't there's pretty much no chance at this point.

[XXX-er]

as I have another sip of an earthy Stoneleigh Pinot Noir I ponder the thot that part of the recovery is realizing you have a problem

[garyfromterrace]

Canada (whole country) currently has 243 COVID deaths per million. Oregon 118 deaths per million. People from Oregon went to Sturgis and returned. People from the entire US have been able to freely travel to Oregon for nearly the entire pandemic and Oregon's numbers haven't sky rocketed. Oregon was one of the first states to be hit by the virus. Point being, open borders does not equate to virus spreading. WHO, who does not have to placate to a constituency like politicians, agrees. WHO bases their opinion on science and data derived not only from COVID, but previous pandemics. Canadians claim the closure is based on science but then admit it is because of Trump and the crazy Americans. Americans were crazy before Trump, and will be crazy after Trump.

Dr Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, says, “it’s going to be almost impossible for individual countries to keep their borders shut for the foreseeable future. Economies have to open up, people have to work, trade has to resume. We do believe that it is possible to identify and minimize the risk associated with international travel.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-h...initely-warns/

OK, so first of all thank you for making me do a bunch of math and look up shit, when I could have been watching a cool movie or another episode of umbrella academy. No, I mean fuck you.

The BC numbers are more relevent to me as I live here. BTW bringing up Sturgis was pure brilliance, what the fuck are you trying to say - that Sturgis was OK? It was OK for Oregonians to go there and come back and infect people? Jesus Christ give your head a shake, and stay the fuck down there.

Oregon death rate 118/M
Oregon infection rate 6780/M

BC death rate 42/M
BC infection rate 1365/M

Canada death rate 243/M
Canada infection rate 3603/M

US death rate 586/M
US infection rate 19,637/M

OK so you want to come visit do you? Your countries death rate is over twice our country's; It's over 10 times my province's. Your country's infection rate is 6 times my country's, and 15 times my provinces.

Can we talk about that infection rate for a minute? Because not only can the fucking virus kill you, but it can shit kick you and have life long serious health consequences. Like perhaps not ski touring again. That'd be fun eh? So, there is a 15 times greater chance that I catch this thing and am potentially permanently disabled if I lived in the US (or we just opened up the old borders).

But let's look at that shining example of Oregon you bring up shall we? Oh, an infection rate of 5 times my province's and a death rate of 3 times.
Shit, wish I would have went to Sturgis after all. But wait, I would have had to quarentine eh? Yeah, I'm sure lots of those awesome freedom loving Sturgis attendees voluntarily quarentined after having a good ole hoot and holler. But hey at least Oregon's infection rate is only twice that of Canada's. There's a stat to be proud of all right.

No, open borders certainly doesn't have anything to do with spreading the fucking virus (that was sarcasm). It's why your country has done such a bang up job controlling the thing eh??? If your fucking nitwit idiot president would have taken this thing seriously a shit load of people (probably some of them MY FUCKING COUNTRYMEN would not have died. That's why your fucking border with us is closed and why we want it to continue to be fucking closed. You guys have bungled this thing. Wake up man.

[altasnob]

Regarding Sturgis, I'm not advocating for Sturgis. If I had it my way, there would be a nation wide ban on gatherings of more than say, 10 people. I was just pointing out that idiot South Dakota governor allowing Sturgis is not a kiss of death for a state like Oregon, and for Canada, if the border was open.

[altasnob]

More border news:

Western Washington Professor estimates Whatcom County lost $60 million in cross-border retail sales in the first half of 2020 due to the border closure.

In 2018, nearly seven million trips were made into Whatcom County by visitors from Canada. Approximately one-quarter of these visitors came specifically for the purpose of shopping and they spent an estimated $138 million in local stores and businesses.

Canada recently ironed out a plan to allow those in Alaska to cross the border at five specific ports using car placards to identify themselves.

There's been a boom of weddings this summer at the Peace Arch border park in Blaine. While married spouses are allowed to cross to reunite, if you are not yet married, the Canadian spouse is allowed to fly to Seattle, get married in Blaine, and then return to Vancouver.

There are 20-30 American students living in Point Roberts, Sumas, and Lynden, who normally go to school in Canada but are now prevented from doing so. The families may have to have one parent move to Canada, with another staying in the US, to solve this. Speaking of Point Roberts, Washington's Governor and congressional delegation is pushing hard for Canada to allow a special exception for Point Robert residents, with Canadians being allowed to travel to Point Roberts as well (the economy there is in shambles).

The Vancouver Airport Authority is pitching a pilot project to allow pre-screened passengers to fly between SEA and YVR without quarantine. The passengers would be tested 72 hours before departure followed by a second rapid test at the airport. Amazon and Microsoft employees who were going back and forth on a regular basis before the pandemic could become part of an initial trial for this travel recovery concept.

https://www.kuow.org/stories/canada-...people-s-lives

https://www.bellinghamherald.com/new...#storylink=cpy

https://delbene.house.gov/uploadedfi...nal_w._sig.pdf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...8a5_story.html

[XXX-er]

Canada recently ironed out a plan to allow those in Alaska to cross the border at five specific ports using car placards to identify themselves.
]

yeah way more to that one ^^ Americans were allowed necessary travel which means drive straight thru to/from AK only stopping for fuel, instead they were having a vacation so the the little placards were becuz some Americans fucked it up but the storey had legs in the news so any one with a foreign plate got stink eye/ yelled at / some cars vandalized and that stroey was plastered across Canada in the national news which didnt make Americans look very good

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ruck-1.5721382

no excuse for this but it happend

[ex-powderbroker]

Adults with covid twice as likely to have eaten at restaurants:

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...ants-cdc-study

This does not bode well for the tourism sector....

[The AD]

Regarding Sturgis, I'm not advocating for Sturgis. If I had it my way, there would be a nation wide ban on gatherings of more than say, 10 people. I was just pointing out that idiot South Dakota governor allowing Sturgis is not a kiss of death for a state like Oregon, and for Canada, if the border was open.

But why would Canada even want to take that risk? Until the U.S.'s numbers are on par with Canada there's an increased risk by allowing the border to open.

[altasnob]

Every single scientific study, author, comment, I can find on the internet contends that long term closed borders do not prevent virus spread. The science says border closures are warranted at the beginning of the pandemic to get things under control and assess the situation. And they are appropriate for unique, isolated nations, like island nations. But otherwise, once a virus is in a community, opening borders does not correlate to a substantial increase. There is no evidence that exists (that I know of) that refutes this. And while opening a border could create a slightly higher risk of virus spread, when you compare all the long term negatives of border closures, the benefits of border closures are far outweighed by the negatives.

Find me one study based on science and data to suggest otherwise? The World Health Organization agrees with me. Sweden's head epidemiologist agrees with me. Why would the WHO say this? Are they purposely trying to kill us all? I realize that the vast majority of Canadians disagree. And the vast majority of Americans disagree as well (the border is closed by the US too). But that does not mean these opinions are based on science and data. They are based on scape goating, nationalism, and perpetuating a false sense of security. I would love to be proved wrong on this.

This is very interesting to me because Canadians correctly point out that Trump ignores science. But they are ignoring science on this too. And in the end, in the long term, the entire world will suffer from their opinion. The longer the border remains closed, the greater impact it has on long term Canadian-US relations. If this relationship crumbles, so goes the world. The world needs the US and Canada to work together on all issues. To me, this really has nothing to do with wanting to go ski in Canada but the future of the free world.

[ex-powderbroker]

The science says border closures are warranted at the beginning of the pandemic to get things under control and assess the situation.

we are roughly six months into this thing that will never go away. not knowing anything else, would this strike you as the beginning or the end of such a situation?

[Angle Parking]

we are roughly six months into this thing that will never go away. not knowing anything else, would this strike you as the beginning or the end of such a situation?

As more info is trickling out about the long term health consequences of COVID, I fear we are closer to the beginning than the end.

[altasnob]

From my reading of what the WHO says on this subject, the beginning is the first few weeks of a pandemic. The fact that a pandemic may last several years doesn't change their analysis. Most pandemics do stretch several years. 2009 Swine Flu lasted 19 months. SARS number 1, two years.

Just say that the WHO doesn't know what they are talking about, their studies and research and policy analysis that they have been doing since they were formed in 1948 is worthless. Who do I sound like?

[altasnob]

WHO took the same position (against border closure) for much more deadly viruses, such as Ebola.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...bolas-rampage/

https://www.who.int/ith/who-recommen...19july2019/en/

[altasnob]

As I noted above, the border is slowly and silently being reopened. Small isolated towns in Alaska allowed to cross. Air travel from Seattle to Vancouver to potentially be allowed. I think in the not distant future the Point Roberts border will be open. One thing that both American and Canadian policy advisors agree on is that it makes no sense to keep doing these 30 day extensions because businesses have no way to plan for the future. The current closure ends on September 21. If it gets extended, just extend it out to 2021 rather than leave everyone hanging with these 30 day extensions.

[XXX-er]

Should an american be allowed to quote WHO when they still owe them 200million ?

I think we are still at least a year out from a vaccine AP if we are lucky and COVID will still be around for a while

[pureantigravity]

Every single scientific study, author, comment, I can find on the internet contends that long term closed borders do not prevent virus spread. The science says border closures are warranted at the beginning of the pandemic to get things under control and assess the situation. And they are appropriate for unique, isolated nations, like island nations. But otherwise, once a virus is in a community, opening borders does not correlate to a substantial increase. There is no evidence that exists (that I know of) that refutes this. And while opening a border could create a slightly higher risk of virus spread, when you compare all the long term negatives of border closures, the benefits of border closures are far outweighed by the negatives.

Find me one study based on science and data to suggest otherwise? The World Health Organization agrees with me. Sweden's head epidemiologist agrees with me. Why would the WHO say this? Are they purposely trying to kill us all? I realize that the vast majority of Canadians disagree. And the vast majority of Americans disagree as well (the border is closed by the US too). But that does not mean these opinions are based on science and data. They are based on scape goating, nationalism, and perpetuating a false sense of security. I would love to be proved wrong on this.

This is very interesting to me because Canadians correctly point out that Trump ignores science. But they are ignoring science on this too. And in the end, in the long term, the entire world will suffer from their opinion. The longer the border remains closed, the greater impact it has on long term Canadian-US relations. If this relationship crumbles, so goes the world. The world needs the US and Canada to work together on all issues. To me, this really has nothing to do with wanting to go ski in Canada but the future of the free world.

^^^ this

[Ted Striker]

Should an american be allowed to quote WHO when they still owe them 200million ?

Ha! Solid quip.

yeah way more to that one ^^ Americans were allowed necessary travel which means drive straight thru to/from AK only stopping for fuel, instead they were having a vacation so the the little placards were becuz some Americans fucked it up but the storey had legs in the news so any one with a foreign plate got stink eye/ yelled at / some cars vandalized and that stroey was plastered across Canada in the national news which didnt make Americans look very good

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ruck-1.5721382

That story doesn't make Canadians look too good either.

[XXX-er]

well ya but buddy was had texas plates

[glademaster]

I think we'll be lucky to be able to get into Canada for recreation before 2022. And as much as that sucks, I support their decision. We (Americans) are a shameful lot, and it's long overdue that the international community rubs our noses in the mess WE created.

[Ted Striker]

well ya but buddy was had texas plates

I saw a car with Alberta plates here yesterday, and continue to see about one BC plate per week. I haven't heard of any of them being vandalized.