Vail Resorts RESERVED SKIING! It's gonna be EPIC!

**eldereldo** · 12-28-2020, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by thejongiest

Hey I'm sure this was covered here, but I missed cancelling a priority reservation day and now it will only let me book 3 days instead of 4 days (I bought a 4-pack). What's up with that? Bug in their system? Big fuck you for forgetting to cancel?

Uh, what do you expect? You reserved a day out of your 4, you didn’t show, but since you didn’t cancel your ticket was active. You now have three days left.

**Danno** · 12-28-2020, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Toadman

what Vail needs to do is get away from the Walmart model and go with the Chick-Fil-A model. Fast, good service, and a decent quality product delivered with a

and be closed on Sunday?

**jacob_dbu** · 12-28-2020, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by eldereldo

Uh, what do you expect? You reserved a day out of your 4, you didn’t show, but since you didn’t cancel your ticket was active. You now have three days left.

According to customer service, I still have 4 days. Reservation /= pass scanned. And priority days should replenish after being used.

Yes it's shitty I didn't cancel. Sorry, I'm trying to hedge my own bets since we live in a serve-yourself-first world and trying to manage reservations at the 3 ski resorts I can access to try and actually ride the weekends here. I forgot.

**eldereldo** · 12-29-2020, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by thejongiest

According to customer service, I still have 4 days. Reservation /= pass scanned. And priority days should replenish after being used.

Yes it's shitty I didn't cancel. Sorry, I'm trying to hedge my own bets since we live in a serve-yourself-first world and trying to manage reservations at the 3 ski resorts I can access to try and actually ride the weekends here. I forgot.

Had no idea that if you didn’t show on a reserved day they didn’t dock your pass. Wasn’t what I got from reading the info I have been sent. But I suppose they may have different rules for different pass products.

**Ottime** · 12-30-2020, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Greenstateofmind

I’ll give an example of why it works. My local vt hill is independent. My sisters local pa hill went epic. For less than 700 she gets her season pass and 5ish days at Stowe plus a handful of other resorts up here. Now I’m on the hook for Stowe day passes for at least half the days of her trips. Because, of course she wants to go to Stowe now. Why wouldn’t she?

Fuckers

Yeah. I don’t want to ski any other epic hills nearby so I but the KW only pass (except for this year) to have a no black out. My pass price has increased over 100% since Vail bought 8 years ago. They’ve put almost no money into the hill or facilities, but it is more crowded. And now it is a epic shitshow on powder days as there are so many epic passholders from other resorts showing up who don’t even ski fall line but side slip and traverse the shit out of everything.

Fuckers is right.

**Canada1** · 12-30-2020, 11:00 AM

I’ve heard skier numbers are up year over year despite the reservations. Can that be true?

**Benny Profane** · 12-30-2020, 11:13 AM

I could definitely believe it in the east, and hills close to big metros within driving distance. Those that cant fly to Europe or won't fly to American mountains, and then there's all the warm weather travellers (islands, Disney World) who can't/won't fly.

**smartyiak** · 01-01-2021, 03:15 PM

This has been about an hour:
“The reservations system is currently paused for maintenance. We're working quickly to address the issue and will be back online shortly.”

WTF...it’s not like it’s a random Wednesday afternoon!🤬

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**MakersTeleMark** · 01-02-2021, 10:23 AM

Both garages were full yesterday and there was full parking on the frontage road all the way past the Cascade. The villages were a zoo.

I have a feeling capacity limits are not a real thing. That's like 20k people at least.

**Benny Profane** · 01-02-2021, 03:09 PM

Are they packing gondolas?

**Dee Hubbs** · 01-02-2021, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Are they packing gondolas?

No, just making you line up outside of them.

**ncskier** · 01-02-2021, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ottime

Yeah. I don’t want to ski any other epic hills nearby so I but the KW only pass (except for this year) to have a no black out. My pass price has increased over 100% since Vail bought 8 years ago. They’ve put almost no money into the hill or facilities, but it is more crowded. And now it is a epic shitshow on powder days as there are so many epic passholders from other resorts showing up who don’t even ski fall line but side slip and traverse the shit out of everything.

Fuckers is right.

Didn’t they dump millions running electricity to the mountain to get it off generators?

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**~mikey b** · 01-02-2021, 08:19 PM

black out = season pass not usable during holiday period

and yeah they did

**Ottime** · 01-03-2021, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by ncskier

Didn’t they dump millions running electricity to the mountain to get it off generators?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. That was going through before hand and is being bonds are being paid off by the local homeowners. Vail just took credit for it cause it finalized soon after they bought.

**skysos** · 01-03-2021, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ottime

Yeah. I don’t want to ski any other epic hills nearby so I but the KW only pass (except for this year) to have a no black out. My pass price has increased over 100% since Vail bought 8 years ago. They’ve put almost no money into the hill or facilities, but it is more crowded. And now it is a epic shitshow on powder days as there are so many epic passholders from other resorts showing up who don’t even ski fall line but side slip and traverse the shit out of everything.

Fuckers is right.

Ottime, here's what I think. I know you are super pissed about this. Before I go into it...for the record, I agree with you that what Vail has done to Kirkwood sucks. I used to buy BOTH an Epic and Kirkwood pass so I could ski Kirkwood because it is/was so awesome. Now I buy an Epic + Sierra pass because Sierra is somewhat similar to what Kirkwood used to be culturally and for snowfall (and the tree skiing is incredible).

This is straight from the previous GM of the resort, who was my across-street neighbor. He was very community sensitive and was concerned about the negative publicity about Kirkwood closing in early April with 10' of snow on the ground and powder days ahead for example. Really cool guy actually, but his hands were tied by corporate.

Vail is running Heavenly and Kirkwood as a single business unit. Vail corporate will not invest more into either resort until they can self-fund improvements like lift upgrades paid for by profits. The biggest problem with Kirkwood and their business model is the parking situation. If they could sell more lift tickets on peak days it would be more profitable and thus could have more capital improvements. More parking is not going to happen obviously. All the land there is either in conservation easement or privately owned.

That was what he told me, the rest is all me.

How the hell Kirkwood + Heavenly are not profitable is beyond me. Heavenly is mobbed on weekends. The only thing I can figure is that the cost of making snow to cover the boulders all over the mountain is excessive. There are also unique features of the resort that make it more expensive to run like kicking in for the shuttles between their base areas that are miles apart.

Unfortunately I don't see this situation changing anytime soon. If they couldn't squeeze profits from Heavenly + Kirkwood in the past 10 years it's not going to happen. Degrading lifts (I was stuck on Sky twice last 2 years ago long enough to get free tickets), aging lodges, reduced snowmaking, and increasing prices for F&B and other services are certainly in the cards. A buddy ticket which used to be $70 at Heavenly is now $106, which means it's no longer much of a benefit and more of an insult. Food and lessons were relatively inexpensive the first couple of years after Vail took over Kirkwood, but it's crazy now and we will never buy food there again. No more recommending it for learners who need lessons either. Your RV parking has been eliminated, yet we are still parking on dirt (mud) lots. No more May skiing. The list goes on...

This is the modern ski business. I think Vail overextended itself by purchasing Whistler and is now paying the price by not being able to invest in the resorts that don't necessarily stand on their own. They will keep squeezing us until we go away and then probably sell to yet another group that thinks they can do better.

I'm locked into Epic living in South Lake Tahoe unless I just want to ski Sierra, so I'm along for the ride no matter what. These are still fantastic resorts and the mountains haven't changed. The rest I can put up with ... for now.

**Benny Profane** · 01-03-2021, 10:22 PM

"This is the modern ski business. I think Vail overextended itself by purchasing Whistler"

Sheeeit, since then they've acquired about 13 hills in the northeast. "Overextended" is a polite way to put it.

**Ottime** · 01-03-2021, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by skysos

Ottime, here's what I think. I know you are super pissed about this. Before I go into it...for the record, I agree with you that what Vail has done to Kirkwood sucks. I used to buy BOTH an Epic and Kirkwood pass so I could ski Kirkwood because it is/was so awesome. Now I buy an Epic + Sierra pass because Sierra is somewhat similar to what Kirkwood used to be culturally and for snowfall (and the tree skiing is incredible).

This is straight from the previous GM of the resort, who was my across-street neighbor. He was very community sensitive and was concerned about the negative publicity about Kirkwood closing in early April with 10' of snow on the ground and powder days ahead for example. Really cool guy actually, but his hands were tied by corporate.

Vail is running Heavenly and Kirkwood as a single business unit. Vail corporate will not invest more into either resort until they can self-fund improvements like lift upgrades paid for by profits. The biggest problem with Kirkwood and their business model is the parking situation. If they could sell more lift tickets on peak days it would be more profitable and thus could have more capital improvements. More parking is not going to happen obviously. All the land there is either in conservation easement or privately owned.

That was what he told me, the rest is all me.

How the hell Kirkwood + Heavenly are not profitable is beyond me. Heavenly is mobbed on weekends. The only thing I can figure is that the cost of making snow to cover the boulders all over the mountain is excessive. There are also unique features of the resort that make it more expensive to run like kicking in for the shuttles between their base areas that are miles apart.

Unfortunately I don't see this situation changing anytime soon. If they couldn't squeeze profits from Heavenly + Kirkwood in the past 10 years it's not going to happen. Degrading lifts (I was stuck on Sky twice last 2 years ago long enough to get free tickets), aging lodges, reduced snowmaking, and increasing prices for F&B and other services are certainly in the cards. A buddy ticket which used to be $70 at Heavenly is now $106, which means it's no longer much of a benefit and more of an insult. Food and lessons were relatively inexpensive the first couple of years after Vail took over Kirkwood, but it's crazy now and we will never buy food there again. No more recommending it for learners who need lessons either. Your RV parking has been eliminated, yet we are still parking on dirt (mud) lots. No more May skiing. The list goes on...

This is the modern ski business. I think Vail overextended itself by purchasing Whistler and is now paying the price by not being able to invest in the resorts that don't necessarily stand on their own. They will keep squeezing us until we go away and then probably sell to yet another group that thinks they can do better.

I'm locked into Epic living in South Lake Tahoe unless I just want to ski Sierra, so I'm along for the ride no matter what. These are still fantastic resorts and the mountains haven't changed. The rest I can put up with ... for now.

Agree with all of that. Local managers and staff have typically been great. Some better than other.

Vail has no idea how to run these resorts. I bet they can’t turn a profit because of franchise money going to corporate. The price of everything at the resort is up 50-100% since Vail bout a little less than nine years ago. It is what it is. Taking this year off cause the K factor and covid would not mix for me. Will be back next season cause it is still our favorite hill near Tahoe.

If i lived in SLT I’d prob get a Tahoe and a SAT. SAT us still a whole lot of fun. And, yes, the best trees.

**NakedShorts** · 01-04-2021, 09:51 AM

^^^
Yep once it was more expensive to buy a Sandwich from the lodge than it was to buy 2 and a whole host of other goodies from the supermarket that opens at 6am (that is also on the way) it became silly to spend any $ on mountain. Then $5 became the minimum ticket (well $3 candy) they got $0 from me and my family. We are a $100k+ income household and they have gotten less than $20 in the past 3 years from us. They drove us away with unreasonable prices and shitty food. We live in the mountains and do not need fancy villages to walk though to feel like we are in the mountains. They are a glorified real estate company that happens to own some ski lifts. Just look at the marketing $. Book here stay here email blasts and script all over the site, please stop sending me booking emails for a town I LIVE IN. They have no idea how to market blue sky, warmer temps, and a killer mountain with mostly northern exposure. They need to send a few marketing heads to Sqaure Valley and see how those guys keep the fun and stoke alive in the spring, its also a drive from Truckee / Reno/ and Incline and those people also drive by another resort or two to choose Squaw.

Hint for marketing people:
Cheap Food (Hot Dogs / Nachos)
Cheap Beer
Cheaper (2 for1) tickets
Last time I checked most of a ski resorts costs are fixed. The only way to increase profits is increase paying users.

Kirkwood is probably just far enough away though that switching to a Spring Friday - Sunday schedule would only result in flaky employees as well as borderline homeless and starving ones. Most friends that work the resort eventually find another gig that doesn't cost $3000 + just to drive back and forth for the season.

Circa 2005 you used to have to wait an hour or more to leave the resort at the end of the day, frequently parked well out on the road. On pow days (if allowed) we would get 5 or 6 runs, skied bell to bell, but spent most of the time hiking out or back to the resort. The chairs would break and we joked about skiing with ropes in our packs. Big Weekends would be funny, people watching Football games would cause power outages and chairlifts would stop.

**Ottime** · 01-04-2021, 10:53 AM

Most of the power outages occurred when lodging was fun.

I learned early to always bring touring gear with me when headed to KW.

Used to get a burger, fries, side salad and ipa at Bubs with tax and tip for $20. I would drive up and camp in my truck for 1-3 nights. Are at Bubs every night and would get a burrito and coffee at the general store in the morning.

My son had a ten pack of lessons the last season that buying a ten pack actually gave you a discount. When Vail brought it back a few season layers it was only a discount if you also needed to rent gear and get a ticket. Why would anyone ski KW ten days without a pass?

Vail has no idea what they have or how to market it. KW will be empty on a bluebird mid winter day when the roads are clear and the snow is squeaky and the rocks are covered. Meanwhile, Heavenly will be packed with limited open terrain and 40 minute lines.

Always thought a shuttle service, free with paid ticket, and with reservations would be a good way to get more people out to the resort. And make it free, cause without a car you are likely to buy a $15 burger.

We spend less and less money at KW every year. Did not even buy a pass this season after almost two decades of buying passes.

**Name Redacted** · 01-04-2021, 10:53 AM

Breck really sucked. I went for the first time in years on Saturday. Icy AF and pretty long lift lines, but nothing compared to a normal year.

But I have to say, they were handling Covid protocols pretty darn well. Better than any other ski area I've been to. Lines for different sized groups, multiple people directing traffic, lines for groups of 3, 2, 4 etc. Then they'd pair up groups with spacing between. It was pretty cool, but very labor intensive. The lifties were super friendly too. Overall I was really impressed.

**Benny Profane** · 01-05-2021, 02:33 PM

I just want to drop this here, in case anybody from Vail lurks, as they should, if they have anybody with half a brain in marketing. I just posted it in the ECRC thread. Fuck them. I'm pretty sure the patrollers sicked out at Hunter today, making a statement. Hunter released a statement on their website (it's not really Hunters website, it's more like an intrusion on the Epic sales site. Like a fucking bank branch.) telling me, after I left after a long drive, that the shutdown occured because there weren't enough patrol, or "safety officers".

"Ya think? "Excluded out of work." The fuck. First I want to meet the cube shit who wrote that and slap them up the side of the head, and, if it was written in a Colorado cube, I also want to kick him in the knee.
Forty years of skiing, and that never happened to me, and never heard of it. I hope they were on strike. I'd commend them for doing it if it was a work action. Because that fucking company sucks. I drive 2.3 hours to stand around and hear that second hand after I just went back to my car. Not one fucking notification from the mountain through email. There were still people rolling into the parking lot, and one guy said, yeah, no notification. Fuck, they have our emails. It's basically our IDs. It would have been easy to robo email us if anybody knew what the fuck they're doing, but we have seen the pathetic level of customer service that company delivers all summer, so, no surprise. Tell us what the fuck is going on. No, I have to skulk around the internet to find the real story.

I hate this company. I wish that Covid spreads through the board room. The best thing that could happen to skiing is for them to fall into financial ruin and divest anything good, before it's to late. Fuck them."

**AdironRider** · 01-05-2021, 02:42 PM

You hear that VAIL, Bunny wants to speak to the manager!

In all seriousness I get it, I bailed on my Jackson pass this year and have been digging the vibe over at Targhee, both of which are family owned but only 1 acts like it. But all this griping followed up with a "well I'll still buy my pass but screw the 15 dollar burger" talk isn't going to change minds. Ski resorts make their nut three weeks a season, two of which just happened. You aren't the customer they care about. Until that customer leaves, nothing will change.

Covid has only allowed them to milk more money out of the customers they actually care about. I've been saying this for months. Welcome to the new normal.

pps: If Hunter really was striking, they are the dumbest organized group of employees ever. You strike the weekend after Christmas morons when all the tourists paying full freight would get fucked. No this speaks to me of a bunch of patrollers got hammered together after work about 5 days ago, wonder what day that was?

**Benny Profane** · 01-05-2021, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

You hear that VAIL, Bunny wants to speak to the manager!

In all seriousness I get it, I bailed on my Jackson pass this year and have been digging the vibe over at Targhee, both of which are family owned but only 1 acts like it. But all this griping followed up with a "well I'll still buy my pass but screw the 15 dollar burger" talk isn't going to change minds. Ski resorts make their nut three weeks a season, two of which just happened. You aren't the customer they care about. Until that customer leaves, nothing will change.

Covid has only allowed them to milk more money out of the customers they actually care about. I've been saying this for months. Welcome to the new normal.

What money are they "milking". The bar is closed. Fuck, that place must make five times the profit lift tickets bring in. The place is double and triple deep at 10:30 am. The restaraunts are severely limited. Ski school and rental just can't be doing anything near normal biz. And now they can't even get the place open. So, fine, just open Fri-Sun., like Plattekill. Whatever. Assholes.

**AdironRider** · 01-05-2021, 02:52 PM

I've run up some bar tabs in my day, but never one that approached the cost of what a daily lift ticket costs now. Covid forced everyone into paying full boat for a lift ticket, or buying a pass conveniently priced a day or two over what the average skier does in a year.

Like I said Bunny, I get your gripe, but until you realize no one gives a shit about the die hard skier, you are just yelling at clouds.

**MakersTeleMark** · 01-05-2021, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

I've run up some bar tabs in my day, but never one that approached the cost of what a daily lift ticket costs now. Covid forced everyone into paying full boat for a lift ticket, or buying a pass conveniently priced a day or two over what the average skier does in a year.

Like I said Bunny, I get your gripe, but until you realize no one gives a shit about the die hard skier, you are just yelling at clouds.

You've never spent more than $229 on a bar tab?