coffee for mags - a coffee roasting trip report (& free mag coffee)

[::: :::]

It's the Venmo front for a registered charity in Ukraine that is trying to raise funds for protective gear. Not a dox at all, it's published all over verified channels.

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Gotcha, my bad…carry on

[climberevan]

Is the collective aware of this?

https://youtu.be/4xOEIpbxM4w

[Doremite]

https://royalcoffee.com/product/3427097000013960412/

WHOA

who wants to get crazy with me?

You buy, roast & ship? I am down if so. I’d buy roughly 5lbs of it or whatever makes sense.

[AmmergauerTele]

Got the Behmor 2000 roaster. Probably about ten pounds roasted so far. Doing 8 oz batches - coming out quite good. Like tgapp mentioned, pretty much better than anything I could buy for <$25 / lb bag. Been roasting some Ethiopian Yirgacheffe and Espressoo blend that came out quite good - nice chocolatey flavor. Been buying from Sweet Maria's. Just ordered some Moka from Yemen - looking forward to trying that. Got an espresso machine and a pour over.

What else should I buy to branch out - roasting for a few of my crew at work too. Nothing like opening up the mason jar at work and getting a whiff of the freshly roasted beans. Websites for other green beans?

[tgapp]

Got the Behmor 2000 roaster. Probably about ten pounds roasted so far. Doing 8 oz batches - coming out quite good. Like tgapp mentioned, pretty much better than anything I could buy for <$25 / lb bag. Been roasting some Ethiopian Yirgacheffe and Espressoo blend that came out quite good - nice chocolatey flavor. Been buying from Sweet Maria's. Just ordered some Moka from Yemen - looking forward to trying that. Got an espresso machine and a pour over.

What else should I buy to branch out - roasting for a few of my crew at work too. Nothing like opening up the mason jar at work and getting a whiff of the freshly roasted beans. Websites for other green beans?

Nice man! Behmors make excellent coffee

Sweet Maria's is great for learning what origins you like, and they generally have really good prices. A lot of their coffee is very good, sometimes it can be great.

If you want to look at true "level up" green distributors, it'll cost you a bit, which is why it's worth figuring out your preferences first. Here are my picks:

https://roastmasters.com
https://royalcoffee.com/crown-jewels/
https://thecaptainscoffee.com/collec...ain&#39;s-Gold

Royal is hands down the best, but they only sell in 22lb increments, so you better know that you're really going to like something before you pull the trigger.

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[doebedoe]

For anyone following this thread but not ready to through hundreds of bucks at an espresso setup -- here's what I brew on the majority of the time for $78 total (assuming you have a kettle of some sort, I have a cheapo $10 one from like a decade ago):

- Timemore C2 ($55) https://www.amazon.com/TIMEMORE-Ches...dp/B0833SDN8M/
- v60 decanter ($23) https://www.amazon.com/Hario-Drip-Co.../dp/B00755F9Z4

A 1zpresso is a nice upgrade on the grinder side, with a jx pro running $159. But the Timemore at least is pleasant to use and produces consistent enough grounds to make a good cup with clear tasting notes.

If you prefer a richer more full-bodied cup (rather than more clarity and acid) two good options that'll work well with the Timemore and are easy to make good coffee with.

- Aeropress ($40): https://www.amazon.com/AeroPress-Cof.../dp/B0047BIWSK
- Clever dripper ($32): https://www.amazon.com/Clever-Drippe...dp/B088Y3X8YZ/

These basic setups have let me have some mindblowing cups thanks to tgapp's killer roasts.

[jackattack]

For anyone following this thread but not ready to through hundreds of bucks at an espresso setup -- here's what I brew on the majority of the time for $78 total (assuming you have a kettle of some sort, I have a cheapo $10 one from like a decade ago):

- Timemore C2 ($55) https://www.amazon.com/TIMEMORE-Ches...dp/B0833SDN8M/
- v60 decanter ($23) https://www.amazon.com/Hario-Drip-Co.../dp/B00755F9Z4

A 1zpresso is a nice upgrade on the grinder side, with a jx pro running $159. But the Timemore at least is pleasant to use and produces consistent enough grounds to make a good cup with clear tasting notes.

If you prefer a richer more full-bodied cup (rather than more clarity and acid) two good options that'll work well with the Timemore and are easy to make good coffee with.

- Aeropress ($40): https://www.amazon.com/AeroPress-Cof.../dp/B0047BIWSK
- Clever dripper ($32): https://www.amazon.com/Clever-Drippe...dp/B088Y3X8YZ/

These basic setups have let me have some mindblowing cups thanks to tgapp's killer roasts.

Espresso is delicious, bougie, and nerdy but totally unnecessary!
You did leave out one thing: to brew truly excellent coffee a scale is not optional. $11.99 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Copying this over from the espresso thread for reference since I straight Pio'd my first Kenyan yesterday.

Attachment 405151
red check-shaped line = how hot the drum is
blue check-shaped line = how hot the beans are
blue squiggly down line = how quickly the coffee is heating up (how many degrees a minute the coffee is getting hotter) - this is called rate of rise. the goal of this exercise is to make the squiggly blue line go down at a consistent slope angle. major deviations in slope angle = problems with your roast, and the later in the roast they are, the bigger of a problem they represent.

this profile is of a notoriously hard crashing kenyan. i drew in some unscientific lines in there (the black lines) along the rate of rise curve to demonstrate what a crashed coffee looks like. notice how the slope of the line changes dramatically right around 6:50, roughly ~30 to 45 seconds before the coffee started popping like popcorn (first crack start). this coffee was fine, but not great.

this isn't an apples to apples comparison - different roasters meaning that the temperature numbers are not comparable, so ignore them, but just notice how the shape of the lines are totally different. here is the same coffee but one where i actually managed the rate of rise crash decently well. not perfectly, but decently well:

Attachment 405152

you can see that the coffee started to crash (just like the last one), but then i got control of it and kept it from bottoming out. the average slope angle of both "sections" of the roast are very similar. this isn't a perfect execution - but this coffee is EXTREMELY hard to control, and this roast was MUCH MUCH MUCH better - noticeably sweeter and more delicate.

anyway sorry for the nerdery thanks for coming to my tech talk use a fucking thermocouple JONG and your coffee will not suck

yeah i would not have been able to figure this out if i didn't give away a ton of coffee. so, i'm definitely self-interested here, and it's helped me out a ton. i actually think i could have a decent shot at going pro if i wanted to now, but i'm not sure i want that.

managing a crash is really hard - part of it comes from knowing the beans (fucking goddamn kenyans always crash, all the time) - part of it comes from fucking it up a ton. but the basic theory of gas management (heat) during a roast cycle is that right around 50 seconds into the roast, you go full heat, and then from there, you only turn the heat down (the dial only goes one way, so to speak). i need to start including gas annotation notes in my roast curves, which is what real professionals do. i will shortly.

so in a typical roast, it'll look like this. for reference, i'm using the event "dry end" to measure relative times. none of this is absolute, it's all relative to when the coffee reaches 300 degrees +/- (again depends on the roaster, but this is when the coffee changes from green to yellow and begins the maillard process - like browning on top of your lasagna or your creme brulee - i see you, kitchen torch and fried rice in the watcha cookin thread).

100% heat @ turn (when the check mark starts to go up again - roughly 50 seconds in) - coffee is approx 180 degrees. no changes until the coffee is dry and it starts to brown.
90% heat at dry end (3:00-4:30 in depending on the coffee) - coffee is now 300 degrees +/-
80% heat at dry end + 30seconds - 315 degrees +/-
70% heat at dry end + 1min - 325 degrees
60% at dry end + 1min30s - 335 degrees
50% at dry end + 2min - 345 degrees
40% at dry end + 3min - 350-355 degrees
20-30% at t-minus 30 seconds to 1cs (a roast profiler can estimate when you cross that threshold so you are able to anticipate it)
15% at 1cs + 30 to 45 seconds (so we wait until 1cs gets going to make another adjustment)
0-5% at 1cs + 60 seconds until roast end (many roasts get ended right here, some go as long as 2 minutes after 1cs, especially those intended for espresso because you need the extra sweetness and body to balance a shot that comes from an extended first crack - what we call "development time" and is represented by the percentage of the time after first crack relative to the overall roast time. so, if a total roast time was 10 minutes and two minutes of that was spent after first crack, you would have 20% development time - a decent benchmark for espresso)

if you do not follow some structure roughly like the one i described, ALL coffees flick and crash. if you do follow the structure above (give or take as it is all relative and so much of this is art and practical knowledge), some coffees (fucking goddamn kenyans) will still crash because they are little ungrateful spiteful shits and all they want to do is ruin your day.

so, to prevent a crash in a malicious little shit of a coffee (kenyans, lots of geisha, other high-grown coffees like some washed ethiopians), the basic theory is that right around 1:30 BEFORE first crack start, you would, say, go from 40% gas all the way down to 10% gas. this creates thermal "space" in the roast so that when the coffee heats up from releasing water (remember, during the first part of the crash the coffee gets momentarily hotter), it isn't being egged on by additional heat in the drum. turning the gas WAY down prematurely smooths out the first half of the crash, and then, at around 45 seconds before first crack starts, you turn the gas up again back to 30-40% (in principal violating the first rule of coffee roasting, which is that the heat dial only goes down during a roast), but that, in turn compensates for the second part of this pattern, where the additional moisture in the drum lowers the overall thermal momentum of the roast.

this technique is called a gas dip and is very hard to execute well - you can see i tried to execute it in my 2/1 profile i shared but my timing wasn't perfect - still, i'd say that coffee cupped at around 87, with a total potential to cup at close to 89 or even 90.

anyway sorry this is a ski forum but yeah probably like 95% of commercial roasters don't manage flicks and they also source shitty coffee and that's why i think objectively that my coffee compares to $25-30 bougie bags because it's really fucking hard to train someone making $15 an hour to manage a roast

the roast:

[tgapp]

Espresso is delicious, bougie, and nerdy but totally unnecessary!
You did leave out one thing: to brew truly excellent coffee a scale is not optional. $11.99 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Copying this over from the espresso thread for reference since I straight Pio'd my first Kenyan yesterday.





the roast:

ahahahaha yeah i feel your pain, literally that is why i stopped roasting kenyans for a few years, frustrating as hell, but good news is baked coffee still tastes great - just give it to your friends

to try and stop that crash, pull more heat out of the roaster more quickly. it looks like you had too much velocity going into 1cs, so start as hot as you can and then make a ton of small changes coming out of drying, with the goal of having very little momentum going into 1cs.

if that doesn't work try the gas dip technique, where basically, like 1:30 from 1cs you drop your gas 5 levels below where it would normally be, and then 45s from 1cs you return to where you normally would be. this is the relevant part of my post:

so, to prevent a crash in a malicious little shit of a coffee (kenyans, lots of geisha, other high-grown coffees like some washed ethiopians), the basic theory is that right around 1:30 BEFORE first crack start, you would, say, go from 40% gas all the way down to 10% gas. this creates thermal "space" in the roast so that when the coffee heats up from releasing water (remember, during the first part of the crash the coffee gets momentarily hotter), it isn't being egged on by additional heat in the drum. turning the gas WAY down prematurely smooths out the first half of the crash, and then, at around 45 seconds before first crack starts, you turn the gas up again back to 30-40% (in principal violating the first rule of coffee roasting, which is that the heat dial only goes down during a roast), but that, in turn compensates for the second part of this pattern, where the additional moisture in the drum lowers the overall thermal momentum of the roast.

but yeah i still have crashes, so don't be too hard on yourself - shit's tough.

---

right now my favorite espresso is a 75/25 blend of that kenyan peaberry with a super sweet base coffee just to take the sharp edges off. you could use that huehuetenango you just picked up roasted to like a 25-30% dtr, along with that kenyan @ sub 400f drop temp, 18% or so dtr. holy smokes that is good. holy fucking smokes.

also yes a scale is non negotiable, but otherwise, Doebedoe's recommendations are spot on: good coffee does not need to be expensive. Not at all. Plastic v60, decent hand grinder, $12 scale, and good beans, and you can do better than 98% of coffee shops in the US

[jackattack]

ahahahaha yeah i feel your pain, literally that is why i stopped roasting kenyans for a few years, frustrating as hell, but good news is baked coffee still tastes great - just give it to your friends

I've been consistently routing baked/crashed roasts to a friend who brews them up in his standard electric coffee machine, he is stoked and has been repaying me in fresh filets of king and sockeye this season. It feels a little like cheating, but the fish is too good to refuse.

[doebedoe]

I assumed everyone here did enough drugs to have a 0.1 gram accurate scale at home.

[jackattack]

This should be interesting to sample along with the Galo Natural.

[tgapp]

This should be interesting to sample along with the Galo Natural.

Goddammit I am jealous

Let me know if you pull the trigger on the full bag

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[jackattack]

Goddammit I am jealous

Let me know if you pull the trigger on the full bag

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Looks like it’s sold out.

I’m going to trial a few 100g charges of the other Galo this weekend before I try this one.

[neufox47]

Curious what everyone’s impressions of the Klatch anaerobic Guji and Yirg are? The roasts I was generating were good but not great. I thought it was me, but I recently bought some roasted of the same and while it is very good it isn’t quite as blueberry / fruity as I was hoping.


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[jackattack]

My first roast of the Klatch Yirg Worka was almost too Blueberry-y with very sharp acidity. I tried again last week and stretched maillard about 40seconds longer with the same dtr of 21%. Looking forward to trying it out soon.

[rideit]

I’m going with this.

https://mystore.com/mycoffee

[BmillsSkier]

Yo tgapp et al:

Apologies in advance if I'm pissing in the wrong pond (thread), especially seeing the absolute science going on in here, but seeing as this has the most coffee traction on the TRGs here goes.

I'm looking to expand my coffee/espresso bean mix. I run a Jura S9 and am currently, albeit happily, married to Intelligentsia's El Gallo Blend (Columbia/Ethiopia). I really like the profile and would love to dip my toes in something else similar while pushing the palate out into different roasts over time.

Any ideas?

[SB]

Been using the Stanley pour over set for about a week now, makes a great cup of joe. Easy to take apart and clean. The cylindrical filter works well which is a departure from conical types. Probably not going to make the cut for that ultra light camping trip but for car camps and home use its very nice.

I am using it here on top of my Malitta carafe which is another heavy use item in my coffee wurld. Currently doing mixtures of store bought Costa Rican and home roast Columbian beans.

[tgapp]

Yo tgapp et al:

Apologies in advance if I'm pissing in the wrong pond (thread), especially seeing the absolute science going on in here, but seeing as this has the most coffee traction on the TRGs here goes.

I'm looking to expand my coffee/espresso bean mix. I run a Jura S9 and am currently, albeit happily, married to Intelligentsia's El Gallo Blend (Columbia/Ethiopia). I really like the profile and would love to dip my toes in something else similar while pushing the palate out into different roasts over time.

Any ideas?

It's pretty hard to calibrate your palate off of a single blend, but Intelligentsia is generally highly regarded. There's just too much that goes into blending theory and practice to be able to draw parallels between different blends - ratios of the coffees, processing methods, and roast profiles are all proprietary pieces of data that contribute much more to the flavor profile than the countries of origin that they disclose.

So, what do you like about it? What do you taste, and how are you drinking your espresso typically? Straight, in cappuccinos, etc?

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[skifishbum]

that blueberry stuff was berry good
had to cut it with a kona though
if ya ever do go pro
id help

[abraham]

Like Bmills I have a coffee question. I just finished a bag of coffee that seemed to block the filter during the second half. I didn't time anything but the it took far longer than normal to get a full cup of coffee. Just doing a cone filter, nothing too special but I did adjust the grind repeatedly to try and find a better setting without luck. The two things I can think of are the grounds were swelling, or settling more than normal. The first seems like a poorly thought out cause, but I'm not sure the second is any better.

Any thoughts on how to avoid the issue in the future?

[doebedoe]

Like Bmills I have a coffee question. I just finished a bag of coffee that seemed to block the filter during the second half. I didn't time anything but the it took far longer than normal to get a full cup of coffee. Just doing a cone filter, nothing too special but I did adjust the grind repeatedly to try and find a better setting without luck. The two things I can think of are the grounds were swelling, or settling more than normal. The first seems like a poorly thought out cause, but I'm not sure the second is any better.

Any thoughts on how to avoid the issue in the future?

Sounds like a low-moisture / high-density bean that creates lots of fines when it grinds. High-altitude beans like Ethiopians tend to do this more in my experience. Sometimes you can work around it by using an immersion brew method like Aeropress or French press, sometimes but stepping up the grind setting to a bit coarser is a workaround.

[mattig]

Like Bmills I have a coffee question. I just finished a bag of coffee that seemed to block the filter during the second half. I didn't time anything but the it took far longer than normal to get a full cup of coffee. Just doing a cone filter, nothing too special but I did adjust the grind repeatedly to try and find a better setting without luck. The two things I can think of are the grounds were swelling, or settling more than normal. The first seems like a poorly thought out cause, but I'm not sure the second is any better.

Any thoughts on how to avoid the issue in the future?

Swelling thing is a thing (i.e. "bloom"). Tends to be more of a thing closer to the roast date.

Sounds like a low-moisture / high-density bean that creates lots of fines when it grinds. High-altitude beans like Ethiopians tend to do this more in my experience. Sometimes you can work around it by using an immersion brew method like Aeropress or French press, sometimes but stepping up the grind setting to a bit coarser is a workaround.

It's crazy how different certain beans can be when you chomp on em after roasting--even when finished at a very similar temp with a very similar color. Some of them just shatter into fine particles instantly while others really have to be chewed. I would guess low moisture + low density = super fine. At least that's what I think I have noticed without ever trying to pay scientific attention to it. In any event, the old tooth test helps get me a jump start on dialing in the grinder for a new batch. The more easily it vaporizes when chomped on, the coarser I'll start the grind.

[BmillsSkier]

It's pretty hard to calibrate your palate off of a single blend, but Intelligentsia is generally highly regarded. There's just too much that goes into blending theory and practice to be able to draw parallels between different blends - ratios of the coffees, processing methods, and roast profiles are all proprietary pieces of data that contribute much more to the flavor profile than the countries of origin that they disclose.

So, what do you like about it? What do you taste, and how are you drinking your espresso typically? Straight, in cappuccinos, etc?

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Thanks man,

Yeah I guess I should start with the notes I like given it’s a blend and look to grow from there.

I really like the chocolatey, but not sweet, aroma and initial flavor on the tongue. Even better that it finishes with a rich, but not overwhelming roast flavor, almost nutty but more toffee-ish without being sweet.

[tgapp]

Thanks man,

Yeah I guess I should start with the notes I like given it’s a blend and look to grow from there.

I really like the chocolatey, but not sweet, aroma and initial flavor on the tongue. Even better that it finishes with a rich, but not overwhelming roast flavor, almost nutty but more toffee-ish without being sweet.

Cool yeah, so like classic old world espresso?

I would try a few of these:

https://www.cimarronroasters.com/col...cts/courthouse

https://paradiseroasters.com/product...plan=454459497

https://paradiseroasters.com/collect...plan=454688873

Hard for me to guess but if you wanted something "expansive" in terms of tasting somewhat like what you're used to while still being novel and new, the first two options will likely be the best bet. The third is too similar to what you already drink.

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