coffee for mags - a coffee roasting trip report (& free mag coffee)

[retirwntm]

That looks pretty nice. If size isn’t super important though the Kinu simplicity that Tgapp recommended to me up thread (about $450) is fully legit.


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[The Suit]

I was inspired by this thread last summer and got an Orphan Espresso Fixie. I've used it every day since and it's been rock solid.

[tgapp]

Any thoughts on the 1zpresso? Q2 looks like the right size for travel.


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that looks great to me, the price is certainly right, and a 38mm burr is a good size for a hand grinder.

generally speaking, there is a direct correlation between the size of the burr and the quality (re: consistent particle size distribution) of the grind. so, all else being equal, if you want to maximize the quality of your coffee, try to get a bigger burr. there is a ton more that goes into it (number of bearings, bearing tolerances, flat vs conical burrs, burr material/steel treatment, etc), but at the end of the day, burr size is the most important factor

here's a decent breakdown of handgrinders in the market today, from cheapest to nicest:

hario skerton (or mini mill or rhino coffee gear or literally any of the other thousand variations on it) - 30mm. cheap as fuck. ceramic burr is not particularly sharp or fast or even, and there is a ton of burr wobble (variability) in most implementations of this burrset, though some are better than others. honestly these are fine for pourover, but the grind quality isn't great. just serviceable.

1zpresso - 38mm burr, hardened steel. seems solid. no idea what burrset they use, but madebyknock is also in the 38mm range and they're great, so this seems like a "budget + option" - the top of the bottom, if you will.

orphan espresso (known as oe for short - fixie, lido, they're all the same burr) - 48mm swiss made etzinger burr. lido uses a "name brand" burr - kinda like a ski boot manufacturer advertising zip fit or intuition liners. this is a big deal, with the manufacturer of the burr being universally recognized as best-in-class. other premium grinders will do the same thing, so much so that the burr often matters more than the grinder itself.

comandante, kinu m47, etc - all in the 47-48mm range, all well respected burrsets, and well implemented bearing and housing designs. you can't go wrong with grind quality in this class of grinder, so the biggest differentiators are hand ergonomics, size, and housing materials.


kinu m68, oe pharos - these are all around 68mm, and are entering what is known as "titan class" grinders. not super portable (i know people who travel with pharos), but the quality here starts to get outstanding - these grinders can go toe to toe with grinders costing thousands of dollars more.

lyn weber HG-1, oe apex - these grinders have burrs in the 85-95mm range. this is the top of the hand grinder spectrum. the HG-1 works for both espresso and pourover (and costs $1000), and the OE apex is the best pourover handgrinder on the market (bar none), and costs like $550. it isn't capable of grinding espresso due to the burr design, but it makes the best damn cup of pourover coffee i've ever had. both of these grinders consistently beat out $4k electric grinders, but you gotta work for your coffee.

okay, so, two final options (one of which i've recommended earlier):

https://prima-coffee.com/equipment/t...nutc2-timem-pp
https://prima-coffee.com/equipment/t...aa016-timem-sp

the second one has a coated ti burrset and a really nice catch cup. threaded catch cup designs suck. i've never used either, but the price is certainly right.

[jm2e]

Went into a Starbucks today. First time in months. Mid day break at the bike park, so only option and worth experimenting.
Since it’s slow, they’re only doing pour over for regular coffee. That made me mildly optimistic for about two seconds.
I order a blond. She grabs a three gallon plastic tub from under the counter. Just starts shoveling scoops of preground coffee into the filter. Gets water from a hot water spout on the side of one of their machines. Badda bing. Badda boom. Here’s your hipster coffee old timer!
It’s bad.
Poured out 1/3 and asked her to top off with water. It’s still bad but less unbearable.
I guess it’s back to coffee milk shakes from here out.
/blog


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[CirqueScaler]

TGapp, I use a Knock Aergrind, which is about $120 with a 38mm burr. Very high quality construction, and I've been using it for about four years now. I only make aeropress now because of limited space, but I have done the various pourover vessels. I've never had the money or space for an espresso machine, and if I did, I suspect I'd buy another grinder. It probably wouldn't be able to stand up to espresso (if you were also investing in a good machine). But outside of those requirements, the Aergrind is a pretty consistent grind with easy + stepless adjustment. Fits into an aeropress which is really, really nice. Now you can make good coffee at any Holiday Inn that has boiling water. No durability problems and a good price.

The only downside is that the customer service is the worst. Guy makes them out of his garage in the UK and will never ever respond to a customer. Mine was like 2.5 months and many unanswered emails late. Just showed up on my doorstep at some point. Also, he's often out of stock.

I think you can buy through prima coffee - or at least you used to be able to - and go through their customer service. Otherwise, just hope you never have a problem.

Cool thread. I haven't found any good commercial coffee here in SLC except for maybe Blue Copper (they're ok), which charges more than the far better roasters I would buy from in Los Angeles - $19 for 12 oz or more.

jm2e, your experience is the same as mine. A few years ago people got really excited about Starbucks' blonde roast, but it's about 80% as dark as the rest of their coffees as far as I could tell the one time I got them.

Honestly, though, buying non-3rd wave coffee is just a mindset imo. If you have to drink coffee at the office out of the drip machine or go to Starbucks for a date, it can still be tasty.

[neufox47]

Columbian Gesha turned out pretty good. Playing around with a few different roast profiles and definitely haven’t nailed it yet. Good coffe but not getting the super floral aromas and flavors. I think I’m roasting it too quickly and need to lower the heat earlier in the roast.


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[tgapp]

TGapp, I use a Knock Aergrind, which is about $120 with a 38mm burr. Very high quality construction, and I've been using it for about four years now. I only make aeropress now because of limited space, but I have done the various pourover vessels. I've never had the money or space for an espresso machine, and if I did, I suspect I'd buy another grinder. It probably wouldn't be able to stand up to espresso (if you were also investing in a good machine). But outside of those requirements, the Aergrind is a pretty consistent grind with easy + stepless adjustment. Fits into an aeropress which is really, really nice. Now you can make good coffee at any Holiday Inn that has boiling water. No durability problems and a good price.

The only downside is that the customer service is the worst. Guy makes them out of his garage in the UK and will never ever respond to a customer. Mine was like 2.5 months and many unanswered emails late. Just showed up on my doorstep at some point. Also, he's often out of stock.

I think you can buy through prima coffee - or at least you used to be able to - and go through their customer service. Otherwise, just hope you never have a problem.

Cool thread. I haven't found any good commercial coffee here in SLC except for maybe Blue Copper (they're ok), which charges more than the far better roasters I would buy from in Los Angeles - $19 for 12 oz or more.

jm2e, your experience is the same as mine. A few years ago people got really excited about Starbucks' blonde roast, but it's about 80% as dark as the rest of their coffees as far as I could tell the one time I got them.

Honestly, though, buying non-3rd wave coffee is just a mindset imo. If you have to drink coffee at the office out of the drip machine or go to Starbucks for a date, it can still be tasty.

shit, i totally forgot madebyknock, yeah they're great. i have a feldgrind that, while not without it's quirks (i hate how easily you can bump the grind setting), is a phenomenal grinder. 100% capable of doing espresso (and doing it well). and i agree, heaven forbid you ever have an issue with one of them, because you're sure as hell not getting any support from the manufacturer.

on local SLC coffee - logos is pretty damn good, and king's peak is decent. d'bolla is good too, but $27/8oz.

on starbucks - man, i always get a small whole milk cappuccino there, and i'm never disappointed. it's universally the same at every starbucks (WAAAAAYYYY too much dry milk foam), but it's consistent and drinkable and good enough that i have a starbuck's card for the random times i need caffeine and i'm in the middle of nowhere or i don't want to risk it with fake 3rd wave rando shops.

Columbian Gesha turned out pretty good. Playing around with a few different roast profiles and definitely haven’t nailed it yet. Good coffe but not getting the super floral aromas and flavors. I think I’m roasting it too quickly and need to lower the heat earlier in the roast.


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your beans look good. no obvious defects, and you're close to the right roast level. well done man!!

good news is, if you fuck up a gesha it still tastes like excellent, high-grown ethiopian washed coffee (ask me how i know). usually lots of meyer lemon, some peach, bright and sweet flavors. that elusive jasmine tea flavor really is the white whale of coffee though...

so in my experience you can roast gesha fairly quickly but where you get into trouble is allowing for virtually any time after first crack. you need to drop that coffee WAY sooner than you might think. way way way sooner. for me, normal coffees (for drip) are like 1:30-2:00m post 1cs - gesha is like 30s-45s max. (unless it's a natural gesha and i'm going for some espresso goodness). then, be ready to cool them as fast as you possibly can (shop vac and a metal colander in a box is a great idea if you haven't built a cooling tray already).

oh and the other thing about gesha is that you need WAY more rest time then you think. roast it, degas it, then forget that you roasted it for anywhere between 6 and 11 days. resist the temptation not to "just try it once". seriously, put it in the back of your cupboard and forget it's there.

^^ that same advice is true for most coffees actually, but especially geshas. my god. i can't tell you how many times i've cupped the day after roasting, been super disappointed, and then found out a week+ later that i was just impatient.

[neufox47]

Yea, stopped those two 30 and 40 seconds after first crack thanks to your advice. Hopefully firing up the roaster tonight to try some more. Also, this gesha is honey processed.


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[tgapp]

Yea, stopped those two 30 and 40 seconds after first crack thanks to your advice. Hopefully firing up the roaster tonight to try some more. Also, this gesha is honey processed.


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ehh if it's the same honey processed Gesha that Tom at Sweet Maria's has sold for a few years, I've never been able to get floral notes from it. don't beat yourself up over it, every new roaster falls for SM's outrageously high cupping scores. better to buy Gesha from Roastmasters or Prime or Klatch. took me like 10lbs of that coffee to learn that lesson.

send me your address and I'll mail you a pound of this year's Peterson washed (green, unroasted) - the "reference" Gesha (the one that started it all)

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[neufox47]

ehh if it's the same honey processed Gesha that Tom at Sweet Maria's has sold for a few years, I've never been able to get floral notes from it. don't beat yourself up over it, every new roaster falls for SM's outrageously high cupping scores. better to buy Gesha from Roastmasters or Prime or Klatch. took me like 10lbs of that coffee to learn that lesson.

send me your address and I'll mail you a pound of this year's Peterson washed (green, unroasted) - the "reference" Gesha (the one that started it all)

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Interesting, good to know. Thanks I’ll PM you.

[CirqueScaler]

I'll check out logos, thanks. Looks like they're pretty new and don't have a retail presence (not an issue for me)? Do you know the owners?

I'll try the cappuccino next time I need to. I think I usually get a blonde americano or a tea. But milk drinks are good safety drinks for me because I can't really taste subtle differences in espresso through milk anyways.

Fake 3rd wave rando shops - ha! Such a problem. Their impunity frustrates me. I've had decent success using the /r/coffee map to find shops in new places, but it looks like they changed it since I last used it. Used to be a single unified map but now it looks like it's maybe more developed/diversified/specialized.

[tgapp]

I'll check out logos, thanks. Looks like they're pretty new and don't have a retail presence (not an issue for me)? Do you know the owners?

I'll try the cappuccino next time I need to. I think I usually get a blonde americano or a tea. But milk drinks are good safety drinks for me because I can't really taste subtle differences in espresso through milk anyways.

Fake 3rd wave rando shops - ha! Such a problem. Their impunity frustrates me. I've had decent success using the /r/coffee map to find shops in new places, but it looks like they changed it since I last used it. Used to be a single unified map but now it looks like it's maybe more developed/diversified/specialized.

good tip on coffee map, thanks

if I'm travelling to a new place for a few days I'll always research good shops, the problem is when I'm on a road trip (usually for skiing or climbing) and I need coffee on the way. fake third wave coffee (looking at you, cafe ibis) is the bane of my existence. shittier and less consistent than Starbucks, all while paying $5 for a shit pour over.

i know the guy at Logos only because I've chatted with him a half a dozen times or so. he knows his stuff and he's doing good coffee. i don't think it's amazing by any stretch but it is good. he roasts on a probat (very high quality roaster), sources well, and takes his craft seriously.

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[CirqueScaler]

good tip on coffee map, thanks

i know the guy at Logos only because I've chatted with him a half a dozen times or so. he knows his stuff and he's doing good coffee. i don't think it's amazing by any stretch but it is good. he roasts on a probat (very high quality roaster), sources well, and takes his craft seriously.

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Good info on Logos. I'll check them out next week. Can I walk in and buy? I don't see any reason why they should ship, and many reasons why they shouldn't.

if I'm travelling to a new place for a few days I'll always research good shops, the problem is when I'm on a road trip (usually for skiing or climbing) and I need coffee on the way. fake third wave coffee (looking at you, cafe ibis) is the bane of my existence. shittier and less consistent than Starbucks, all while paying $5 for a shit pour over.

This is why I like my aergrind. For any motorized travel it's perfect. You have to pack a mug (could be your camping mug), aeropress, and aergrind but you can premeasure your 19g or whatever you're using. Boil water wherever you are (free breakfast is ideal, in-room hotel coffee machines are doable) and you're good to go. The only downside is that you can't control your water temperature or pour out of a gooseneck, but it gets the job done vs. what you're describing as the bane of your existence.

Actually, come to think of it, should I build a van just so I can use my Stagg EKG on road trips????




Just kidding. I don't own a Stagg EKG.

[neufox47]

Just picked up 5lbs of the washed and natural Ethiopian Guji. First time trying the washed and natural version of the same coffee.

https://burmancoffee.com/product/cof...akiso-top-lot/


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[tgapp]

Just picked up 5lbs of the washed and natural Ethiopian Guji. First time trying the washed and natural version of the same coffee.

https://burmancoffee.com/product/cof...akiso-top-lot/


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Lol I literally have that natural in my roaster as we speak. It's good. I actually prefer the washed version (which I'm out of - there's a reason, I guess) but they're both good. I guess I got mine from Happy Mug but it's the same coffee.

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[neufox47]

Yo Tgapp, sent you some of these, green and roasted along with some Ardi (roasted only since I know you have a bunch). Let me know what you think.


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[tgapp]

^^ did a little cupping of neufox's beans over the weekend, and damn, some seriously good coffee there

that sumatran is so good, i'm ordering some right now. fucking excellent - but those tasting notes must be for a much darker roast. i got grapefruit, vanilla, and a little earthiness/spice (cardamom?) with big body. really, that is superbly good coffee. i'm genuinely impressed.

the kenyan is classic, well done. nothing to say there. it wasn't part of my cupping - i just brewed it straight (on account of only having three cupping glasses), but I liked it a lot, no surprises. good acidity and sweetness.

the ardi - yep, that tastes right to me. strawberry milk chocolate. i'd be pleased if that came out of my roaster. not much to say here, but i've had A LOT of that coffee, and it tasted great.

the gesha was good; not like i remember it. tasted like grapes, honeysuckle, and i swear something like panna cotta. might be crazy, i'm not one for wild tasting notes.

-- anyway, some greens headed neufox's way, including some of my favorites:

https://royalcoffee.com/product/47587/

i included two roast samples of this, and while they're good, they're not my best work. gesha's hard - sample #1 has a stretched profile and sample #2 was pretty quick in the drum (10:30min vs like 8:45min), both finished around 392 on my bean temp probe. if nothing else it's cool to taste the differences between different profiles - sample two is the winner here for me, i think the extra time in the drum killed some of the florals (it's easy to tell them apart when they're next to each other)

https://royalcoffee.com/product/cjs1403/

this coffee is my current test piece, it's easy in the roaster but hard to get perfect - gives me something to work for. really cool coffee. both this coffee and the next coffee are anaerobic fermented coffees - you can read more about the process here:

https://www.klatchroasting.com/blogs/news/asd-process

finally, there's a pound of this in there: https://www.roastmasters.com/costa-geisha.html - another excellent coffee,



(i use the spork for cupping because it's titanium, which is what the coffee elite say to use.)

[tgapp]

neufox clean out ur damn inbox

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[John_B]

I just got an email from Dragonfly Roasters that they are selling 5 lb bags of their Oasis blend for $45 with free shipping. I don't know anything about Dragonfly except that earlier tgapp recommended them. Anyone have any thoughts? Seems like a way better price than my local stuff so I'm tempted but figured I'd see what the collective has to say.

https://dragonflycoffeeroasters.com/...32049382391892

[jackattack]

I just got an email from Dragonfly Roasters that they are selling 5 lb bags of their Oasis blend for $45 with free shipping. I don't know anything about Dragonfly except that earlier tgapp recommended them. Anyone have any thoughts? Seems like a way better price than my local stuff so I'm tempted but figured I'd see what the collective has to say.

https://dragonflycoffeeroasters.com/...32049382391892

Is there something better than Blue Star local to you? Because anything from Dragonfly (or any legit roaster) should be head and shoulders above that.

Tempted to take advantage of that deal myself.

[tgapp]

Haven't had that coffee blend yet but Dragonfly is an exceptional roaster. Unless you're a single origin snob (and even then...) I'd jump on it. Vac seal that shit into 1lb increments and freeze it. $9/lb for high quality coffee is great.

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[John_B]

Is there something better than Blue Star local to you? Because anything from Dragonfly (or any legit roaster) should be head and shoulders above that.

Tempted to take advantage of that deal myself.

I alternate between Blue Star and Lariat. Neither have wowed me so I figured what the hell and ordered the Dragonfly. Even if it's the same quality it's a good bit cheaper.

[JimmyCarter]

^^ did a little cupping of neufox's beans over the weekend, and damn, some seriously good coffee there

that sumatran is so good, i'm ordering some right now. fucking excellent - but those tasting notes must be for a much darker roast. i got grapefruit, vanilla, and a little earthiness/spice (cardamom?) with big body. really, that is superbly good coffee. i'm genuinely impressed.

Anybody have any recommendations for Sumatran?
Right now my favorite is actually the Sumatran Gayo from Volcanica (https://www.amazon.com/Sumatran-Coff.../dp/B075J82Q45) but shit aint cheap.

I am not great with flavor profiles here, but would say I like the cocoa/earth notes better than spice/berries/etc, and the low acidity has made going back to higher acidity coffee unpossible.

[tgapp]

Anybody have any recommendations for Sumatran?
Right now my favorite is actually the Sumatran Gayo from Volcanica (https://www.amazon.com/Sumatran-Coff.../dp/B075J82Q45) but shit aint cheap.

I am not great with flavor profiles here, but would say I like the cocoa/earth notes better than spice/berries/etc, and the low acidity has made going back to higher acidity coffee unpossible.

https://www.jbccoffeeroasters.com/pr...harimau-tiger/

that one is mind-blowing

also if you like low acidity just get dry/natural processed coffees - especially from south america. those tend to be chocolate/earthy/nutty without the sumatran spice.

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[neufox47]

Any tips for roasting the washed and natural Kayon Mountain gujis?

Did another batch of Kenya AA and I think I avoided baking it. Will try it in a few days. I definitely picked up / recognized what baked tastes like after you mentioned it. Kept the heat high as first crack approached and pulled it after just under a minute.


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