coffee for mags - a coffee roasting trip report (& free mag coffee)

[hawkgt]

Fuck man now Im like I could just put whiskey in my coffee? ?? I kinda hate my job right now so maybe I will up that to two whiskies and the liquid courage will give me the horsepower to tell them what I really think! Modern problems vintage solutions!

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pre merger with current corp ownership my old boss had "whiskey bitch" sessions. when we would get twisted up on something and was about to explode he asked you stop by to fill out the "WB" forms for what ever project we were on. had a flavor for each of us. walk in, pour a drink and could not speak but write out your bitch on the white board. really was a way to get the person (me) to get your thoughts out in a concise detailed method of what the true issue was. by the end of the drink, few words to clean it up you had your problem defined and usually path for resolution.

our non drinker had tea, then eventually we all had tea. i fucking hate tea

anyway, back to coffee

[riser4]

[happytimefunbox]

pre merger with current corp ownership my old boss had "whiskey bitch" sessions. when we would get twisted up on something and was about to explode he asked you stop by to fill out the "WB" forms for what ever project we were on. had a flavor for each of us. walk in, pour a drink and could not speak but write out your bitch on the white board. really was a way to get the person (me) to get your thoughts out in a concise detailed method of what the true issue was. by the end of the drink, few words to clean it up you had your problem defined and usually path for resolution.

our non drinker had tea, then eventually we all had tea. i fucking hate tea

anyway, back to coffee

FKNA!

Hey HTFB come by the office to fill out the WB form about that project that QA is hassling you on.

Hey boss... you know I love you right? You are the best boss ever and I am really happy working here. Oh is that caribbean cask? 3 fingers please those hoes in QA are all up in my shit, gimme that dry erase pen muthafuckah!

This type of teambuilding could be happening all across our country but noooooo.......


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[Dantheman]

so now you have black coffee, literally, roasted to the point where it's lost anything that once made it unique, and with enough time, this is all consumers ever think of as coffee.

Espresso is usually roasted pretty dark, right? Even in Eetalee, etc.? How does that fit into the paradigm laid out in this post? Or is that just my naivete showing?

[tgapp]

Espresso is usually roasted pretty dark, right? Even in Eetalee, etc.? How does that fit into the paradigm laid out in this post? Or is that just my naivete showing?

yes and no. traditionally yes, but with modern coffee, that isn't really the case.

so - two different concepts in coffee roasting theory - there's the roast level and then there's the development time. roast level is how dark you got the beans - how hot the oven is that baked the casserole. development time is how long you left the casserole in the oven. the hotter the oven gets, the darker the coffee, but the longer the beans sit in there, the more sugars will be present in the final product. espresso roasts are ALWAYS longer and often darker, since espresso will taste like garbage if you don't have enough sugar/development time. modern roasting technology has really allowed us to separate dev time from roast level, in a way that we can "stretch" a roast without letting it get too dark - so again, you get all the unique flavors from the coffee plus the sugar that you need in order for it to taste balanced.

italy is the home of espresso, but modern espresso has moved well past that - like beer is to germany. a modern ipa has little in common with a doppelbock, but they're both beer.

if you want good espresso in slc, the best is cafe d'bolla. john knows his shit.

[stapes]

Wow. This is amazing. I need to sit down with a cup o’ joe and read through all this.

Was a French press person for years, then moved to a Bonavita drip. Still use the press occasionally but most days the drip is just too convenient for wife and I while getting kids wrangled in the am.

Towards beginning of COVID I ordered some beans from a handful of local roasters. Ended up signing up for one of their subscriptions, and the dude delivers by bike every other week. Roasts on Mon, dropped off Thurs. I’m really liking that so far. All SO too.

Kinda interested in roasting my own but that may need to wait a bit.

Thanks for sharing all this T!!!

[riser4]

yes and no. traditionally yes, but with modern coffee, that isn't really the case.

so - two different concepts in coffee roasting theory - there's the roast level and then there's the development time. roast level is how dark you got the beans - how hot the oven is that baked the casserole. development time is how long you left the casserole in the oven. the hotter the oven gets, the darker the coffee, but the longer the beans sit in there, the more sugars will be present in the final product. espresso roasts are ALWAYS longer and often darker, since espresso will taste like garbage if you don't have enough sugar/development time. modern roasting technology has really allowed us to separate dev time from roast level, in a way that we can "stretch" a roast without letting it get too dark - so again, you get all the unique flavors from the coffee plus the sugar that you need in order for it to taste balanced.

italy is the home of espresso, but modern espresso has moved well past that - like beer is to germany. a modern ipa has little in common with a doppelbock, but they're both beer.

if you want good espresso in slc, the best is cafe d'bolla. john knows his shit.

Ya, I like doppelbock. I hate IPA.

[tgapp]

Ya, I like doppelbock. I hate IPA.

schneider-weisse aventinus tap 6 or ayinger celebrator might be the best beers of all time. either that or rodenbach's grand cru.

[jono]

stumptown is probably the best, most commonly available coffee. intelligentsia is also great and fairly common. george howell is great and commonly available on the east coast.

for Utah mags, stumptown is sold at harmons everywhere. it's about $15 a bag. it is to coffee what in 'n out or five guys is to burgers - common, good, well done, and reasonably priced. the only issue with stumptown (or grocery stores in general) is that coffee will often be past it's prime - it will have sat on a shelf for two to three months before you buy it. so, if you buy from a grocery store, check the "roasted on" date. 2 weeks is just fine, up to a month old isn't ideal but it is acceptable, beyond that, you're paying more for something that isn't really worth it.

again though - if you follow my 5lb bulk & freeze beta, you'll be able to get WAY BETTER coffee for either the same or cheaper than stumptown.

Cool. Stumptown is actually the only one that we drink at all that gets beyond local, I think, so that makes sense from my knot-hole. I was trying to think of all the other favorites and they're things like Doma, Two Rivers, River Rock Roasters, Craven's, Flying M...I'm guessing a chunk of people here might know River Rock (Hurricane, UT) but the rest are just randomly located.

Met a touring couple from Europe at breakfast some years ago complaining about the quality of American coffee, how weak, stale and bad it was "except Starbuck's, of course." My wife and I both tried to hold up our jaws for a minute before realizing these poor souls had been getting coffee at diners and expecting something better. Starbuck's ability to be consistent does have benefits when you're homesick. Bad just like home: check!

[jm2e]

/\ /\ /\
Hahaha. I actually think a lot of my Italian friends would laugh at most “nice” coffee shops in The States. In Italy, it’s assumed that you can get a decent espresso (known as coffee) or cappuccino just about anywhere, served by anyone, without the pretentious bullshit. You’ll also be able to get a fresh (ie made a couple hours ago)croissant, a sandwich, a beer and some grappa.


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[tgapp]

/\ /\ /\
Hahaha. I actually think a lot of my Italian friends would laugh at most “nice” coffee shops in The States. In Italy, it’s assumed that you can get a decent espresso (known as coffee) or cappuccino just about anywhere, served by anyone, without the pretentious bullshit. You’ll also be able to get a fresh (ie made a couple hours ago)croissant, a sandwich, a beer and some grappa.


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with good reason! most US baristas are barely capable of pulling a shot or properly texturing milk. the fact that Italians drink espresso neat means that there's a high level of cultural expectation around that, and if a cafe can't pull a decent shot, it's not going to last for long at all. here in the US, it doesn't matter if your barista skills are shit because it's going into some iced abomination with 4 pumps of vanilla syrup and a half cup of cream.

fancy American places just do pourover even though their pourover is absolute shit. looks cool though.

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[TurxSki]

stumptown is probably the best, most commonly available coffee. intelligentsia is also great and fairly common. george howell is great and commonly available on the east coast...

Wait, what?
No Peet's??

(Stumptown, Intelligentsia, and Peet's are all owned by same german millionaires corp now)





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[tgapp]

Wait, what?
No Peet's??

(Stumptown, Intelligentsia, and Peet's are all owned by same german millionaires corp now)





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damn, i did not know that.

truth is, it's hard to find coffee that is both "widely available" and well done. plenty of fine to average coffee that is everywhere, but stumptown is actually decent.

i don't buy or drink their coffee, but if i'm on a roadtrip and i stop by a cafe serving stumptown, i'm always pleasantly surprised.

[jm2e]

I drink Peet’s in my save-it-for-later thermos. But, used to be a bag of coffee was a pound of coffee. Then it turned into 14oz. I even took it in stride when a bag mysteriously became 12oz. But now a $10 bag of Peet’s gets you 10.5oz! Fuck me, that’s getting awful close to a half a pound! AND, it’s more per oz than a 5lb bag from Dragonfly.


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[jackattack]

Coffee has landed!

[John_B]

Yeah, thanks man! Got some stuff to work through in the hopper of the grinder then it's time to get my nerd on!

[TurxSki]

Have you ever roasted with Peaberry beans? (A joined together coffee bean, instead of usual half bean).
They look cool, like little dark mung beans.
Just opened some Kenya Peaberry. Very pleasant.

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[tgapp]

Have you ever roasted with Peaberry beans? (A joined together coffee bean, instead of usual half bean).
They look cool, like little dark mung beans.
Just opened some Kenya Peaberry. Very pleasant.

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yep, peaberry coffee can be very good. it's neither a good thing nor a bad thing compared to normal coffee, just different (and maybe a little trickier to roast).

when coffee cherries are sorted, they are usually sorted based on size and appearance. so when you hear Kenya AA, the AA doesn't refer to the quality of the lot, just the size of the bean. Kenya's system works a little differently than most countries; the standard in the rest of the coffee world is screen size; they use giant screens with holes that are measured in 64's of an inch. so, there's 16 (16/64") screen, 18 screen, 20 screen etc. Kenya uses AA, AB, and B screen sizes, with AA being the largest. they also separate out the peaberry (fused bean) into a sub-lot (called an outturn) before cupping and grading. peaberries account for 5-10% of all coffee cherries harvested, depending on the strain of coffee.

most of the coffee grown in kenya is one of two strains - SL-28 and SL-34, and both seem to be abundant producers of peaberry coffee. usually, if the farmer/processor cared enough to separate out the PB outturn, that means it's a good quality crop. and kenyan PB's are notoriously good. they're like tiny little juice bombs.

[glademaster]

I drink Peet’s in my save-it-for-later thermos. But, used to be a bag of coffee was a pound of coffee. Then it turned into 14oz. I even took it in stride when a bag mysteriously became 12oz. But now a $10 bag of Peet’s gets you 10.5oz! Fuck me, that’s getting awful close to a half a pound! AND, it’s more per oz than a 5lb bag from Dragonfly.


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Yeah, as a Peet's devotee, I noticed this change recently too. What a load of bullshit. I think it might be at the point where it's cheaper to order it direct from Peet's by the pound than to buy it in the grocery store.

[tgapp]

Yeah, as a Peet's devotee, I noticed this change recently too. What a load of bullshit. I think it might be at the point where it's cheaper to order it direct from Peet's by the pound than to buy it in the grocery store.

jesus if dragonfly is cheaper than peets than what are you waiting for? dragonfly is one of the top 5 roasters in the US right now.

[jm2e]

A friend sent me a bag of Dragonfly Crema Dolce, and it was amazing.


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[neufox47]

I bought some JBC based on your recommendation and I'm enjoying it. I typically gravitate towards Kenyan and Ethiopian but tried their righly rate columbian, Congo and espresso blend. Very solid coffee, going to try their african coffees next.

[jtran10]

This thread is amazing. So much awesomeinfo!

Question: where should I be buying my beans locally in SLC if I generally only brew espresso in a barista express? Seems like cafe d'bolla based on your previous responses, but anything more convenient to millcreek than going downtown to buy beans would be helpful.

[tgapp]

This thread is amazing. So much awesomeinfo!

Question: where should I be buying my beans locally in SLC if I generally only brew espresso in a barista express? Seems like cafe d'bolla based on your previous responses, but anything more convenient to millcreek than going downtown to buy beans would be helpful.

Ehhh D'bolla is good at making espresso but they rarely (if ever) sell their espresso blends. If I were you I would just order online - there really isn't anyone roasting around Holladay/Millcreek that is doing a good job (I'm also in Millcreek).

I bought some JBC based on your recommendation and I'm enjoying it. I typically gravitate towards Kenyan and Ethiopian but tried their righly rate columbian, Congo and espresso blend. Very solid coffee, going to try their african coffees next.

nice!! you should try one of their exclusive ethiopians next, that's really where i think they shine.

[jtran10]

Ehhh D'bolla is good at making espresso but they rarely (if ever) sell their espresso blends. If I were you I would just order online - there really isn't anyone roasting around Holladay/Millcreek that is doing a good job (I'm also in Millcreek).



nice!! you should try one of their exclusive ethiopians next, that's really where i think they shine.

Cool. I actually emailed JBC and they already got back to me about setting up a wholesale account; no questions asked, just as advertised. So if anyone else was thinking about that it's super easy.

Will probably just have the lady there rec me a bean to buy for epsresso and go with it.