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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post

    but yeah i'm honestly not a coffee snob
    sorry bro you're a coffee snob
    life ain't guaranteed, love your people while you can

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    i have an espresso machine capable of flow profiling - which means, among other things, that i have a $3k piece of hardware that effectively imitates a $25 aeropress - and i use it in aeropress mode all the time. coarser grind, no real "puck" to speak of, and i never let the pressure get above 2 bars (i reckon you're getting between 2 and 4 bars of pressure with the prismo gizmo). i even do the same ratios, more or less - like 25 g in, 100g out. all i can say is, it's MUCH richer than immersion brewing at the same ratio.
    That's some interesting data for sure. Still, 2 bars is a decent amount of pressure, 28 psi. The area of an AP filter is ~5 in^2, so even if I were to put my whole 160 lb bodyweight onto the plunger that's ~30 psi. This gal weighs less and isn't pressing with anything close to her full bodyweight:



    With her arms extended like that I'm calling it at 50 lbs total force tops, so 10 psi/<1 bar. It's a little hard to say since they don't publish the actual pressure the check valve activates at. But, just watching that GIF, that looks like about the same amount of force required using the ultrafine SS filter I own with no valve, i.e. the pressure probably is dictated by the grounds "clogging" the filter screen and not the valve.
    Last edited by Dantheman; 08-18-2020 at 04:38 PM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    sorry bro you're a coffee snob
    i mean ya ok fair point, but i also try to keep things simple. and roasting is honestly just because it saves me a fuckton of money.

    do i get any credit for drinking a lot of instant coffee? i do love me some instant.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    i mean ya ok fair point, but i also try to keep things simple. and roasting is honestly just because it saves me a fuckton of money.

    do i get any credit for drinking a lot of instant coffee? i do love me some instant.
    None
    Uno mas

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    sorry bro you're a coffee snob
    I gotta stick up for tgapp here. Unlike the the stereotypical dickishness and airs of superiority indicative of the typical snob, tgapp seems uncharacteristically mellow in is reactions to other coffee makers.
    Not once has he told anyone here to eat a bag of dicks for doing it wrong. Not even a single request for pics of a nekkid sister. Real gentleman.


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    Lots of Cream, Lots of Sugar

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    sorry bro you're a coffee snob
    Connoisseur
    Quote Originally Posted by mfcf13 View Post
    The world needs more Donnely and less Stainless.

  7. #107
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    Oh man I got nothing but support for tgapp, no animosity here just trying to poke in jest. He is graciously dumping knowledge and sending bags of beans in the mail, fkn cool. I'm learning a fair amount and enjoying the thread. FWIW, I'm firmly in the camp of fresh daily grind w/ aeropress, but now finding myself contemplating calling a small batch roaster for the first time. I greatly enjoyed coffee from $25k machines in the Alps but am also cheap and would rather spend coins and mental powers on other things.

    Don't coffee snobs sorta enjoy their moniker? I see it as a harmless sort of aloof smug enjoyment of not just the taste but the ritual. Maybe being a snob about anything else is sort of angry or deriding and less soulful. Or maybe I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

    But I think most would see this level of discussion as only coming from a coffee snob. shrug, carry on
    life ain't guaranteed, love your people while you can

  8. #108
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    As a powder snob, I concur.

    But I would totally give tgapp credit for instant if he can name a flavored coffee he likes. Ain't no snob gonna do that.

  9. #109
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    Nekkid pics of his sister would help too. Just sayin’. This is still TGR, right?!


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    Lots of Cream, Lots of Sugar

  10. #110
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    Snob and enthusiast are the two sides of the coin. The snob is the pedantic asshole, enthusiast the excited expert.

  11. #111
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    coffee for mags - a coffee roasting trip report (&amp; free mag coffee)

    My 6am latte makes the world bearable. Knowing I kinda suck at it makes it easier to accept my low functioning morning brain.
    Last edited by jm2e; 08-19-2020 at 07:04 AM.
    Lots of Cream, Lots of Sugar

  12. #112
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    heh you guys are great, thanks for humoring me. and honestly - i guess my whole deal with coffee is, you can level up your coffee game without too much work or effort, and you don't need to be an asshole about it. lots of ways of doing this right.

    and yeah i'm a total snob, but i also fucking love diner coffee. for flavors - either whiskey or heavy cream. i like bailey's from time to time but i don't stock it in my bar. i also love affogatos which is a fancy italian way of saying espresso on top of ice cream.

    also on the subject of instant coffee, if anyone wants to drink dope ass coffee in the backcountry:

    https://swiftcupcoffee.com/ - powdered and delicious
    https://cometeer.com/ - keurig-compatible, frozen, recylable, and fucking amazing.

    i'll see if i can get some naked pics from my sister, hang on
    Last edited by tgapp; 08-19-2020 at 08:35 AM. Reason: forgot a word

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post

    i'll see if i can get some naked pics from my sister, hang on
    thanks, we'll be here. no rush
    life ain't guaranteed, love your people while you can

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    enthusiast the excited expert.
    I had the pleasure of receiving my beans from tgapp in person last night and "enthusiast" is exactly the word I'd use. Great guy who is just stoked on coffee. I'm enjoying my first cup at this very moment and the shit's good!

  15. #115
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    The term snob carries negative connotations.

    Enthusiast is a better descriptor for tgapp.

    Plenty of coffee (/beer/whiskey/music/skis etc) snobs out there - this thread is a demonstration of how a topic can be discussed with enthusiasm but without snobbery.

    Anyway...I sip coffee and await the posting of pics.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    The term snob carries negative connotations.

    Enthusiast is a better descriptor for tgapp.

    Plenty of coffee (/beer/whiskey/music/skis etc) snobs out there - this thread is a demonstration of how a topic can be discussed with enthusiasm but without snobbery.

    Anyway...I sip coffee and await the posting of pics.
    Where is Hemingway when you need him? He called those with expert insights into bullfighting aficionados. Cognoscenti works too: English might not be up to the task


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  17. #117
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    Being a snob at something is not something to take lightly. I take my powder skiing snobery seriously. I have been called a coffee snob but that was because I think starfucks and folgers suck a half mile of cock. I'm far fam a coffee snob.

    I recently bought a small hand crank burr grinder, "Henry Charles Finest Collection | Brushed Stainless Steel with Adjustable Ceramic Grinder" no idea if it's any good but it grinds coffee. I typically buy some kinda medium roast, something like kicking horse or Saltspring island or some smallish large coffee roaster in the $10 - 15/lb range. Then I throw it in the rotary grinder and smash the shit out of it for 30 seconds, followed by either a stove top espresso pot of french press. The french press ends up a little silty at the bottom but I'm OK with a bit of mud in the bottom of my cup. I did notice a difference in the flavour using the burr grinder, not sure how to describe it but it seems mellower. I don't measure ground coffee I start with about the same amount of beans and use the same amount of water and I like it like that. This morning I thought I was a little light going into the grinder but didn't do anything about it and sure enough my coffee was not up to specification.
    You are what you eat.
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  18. #118
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    Im squarely outta my league here and this thread makes me feel supremely jongey but I have a confession. I can barely choke down black coffee, even the good stuff, and need creamer to knock the edge of the acidity. BITD it was "light n sweet" at funkin gonuts butg Im more refined now and use Laird Superfood Creamer. I could maybe grow to like black coffee but Ive tried and repeatedly failed. Oh and my favorite coffee is Cafe Ibis Highlander Grogg. No shit they are always sold out at my Harmons so when its there I buy two packs. Well that is two confessions and Im pretty sure TGAPP and me might not be friends now. But I am an ahhhhsential employee and willing to give small batch TGAPP glory beans a try. I own no grinder (other than Indy 169s) but did spend 20 bucks at wallyworld tha other dayyyy for a blackndecker drip coffeepot WITH timer so you could say Im catching onto this fancy coffee thing you guys are laying down. There may be hope for me yet!

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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    My 6am latte makes the world bearable. Knowing I kinda suck at it makes it easier to accept my low functioning morning brain.
    Right on bro.

    I see hydraulic turtles.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by happytimefunbox View Post
    Im squarely outta my league here and this thread makes me feel supremely jongey but I have a confession. I can barely choke down black coffee, even the good stuff, and need creamer to knock the edge of the acidity. BITD it was "light n sweet" at funkin gonuts butg Im more refined now and use Laird Superfood Creamer. I could maybe grow to like black coffee but Ive tried and repeatedly failed. Oh and my favorite coffee is Cafe Ibis Highlander Grogg. No shit they are always sold out at my Harmons so when its there I buy two packs. Well that is two confessions and Im pretty sure TGAPP and me might not be friends now. But I am an ahhhhsential employee and willing to give small batch TGAPP glory beans a try. I own no grinder (other than Indy 169s) but did spend 20 bucks at wallyworld tha other dayyyy for a blackndecker drip coffeepot WITH timer so you could say Im catching onto this fancy coffee thing you guys are laying down. There may be hope for me yet!

    Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app
    highlander grog! i think that was one of the very first coffees i ever had, fun stuff. also when i learned that if i put whiskey in my coffee it tasted pretty much the same, i just started doing that instead. all of the flavor and more of the alcohol.

    there's no right way to drink coffee - no moral hierarchy to taste - so if you like your coffee with cream and sugar, fucking drink it that way. i love lattes and cappucinos, and both of those have milk that's been sweetened by being steamed, so whatever works for you man. and cream in coldbrew is delicious.

    BUT - let's talk for a minute about 1. why "dark roasted coffee" is so ubiquitous, and 2. why we all feel the need to add cream and sugar to it. because - while taste is taste, there are some fascinating economic reasons behind that taste.

    so, first off, if i didn't establish this already, coffee has terroir - flavor from how it's grown, what sorts of plants, and how it's processed. if you don't believe that, then you probably think that all wine tastes the same, too - because they both come from grapes, a merlot is the same as a sauvignon blanc - turns out, if you mix either with coke (like the french are fond of), they'll both get you fucked up just the same.

    during the industrial revolution, consumer demand for coffee went through the roof (gotta keep those worker bees productive in a 12 hour shift somehow..). coffee roasting production also went from being something made at home over the stove top, to something made in giant factories, served up pre-ground to consumers everywhere. as a consequence of this process, how we drink coffee as a culture (and how coffee is roasted) changed dramatically.

    first, the economics of it: coffee is a commodity, sold at auction by the lot - if you are a buyer for a major commercial roaster, and you can get one coffee one year from guatemala for $2.61 vs the $2.62 you paid last year for a columbian coffee, obviously, that 1-cent savings is gonna end up being significant over a couple thousand tons of the shit. so - you switch gears, save a little money, and have a different bean. problem is - if you roast them to a medium roast level (or lighter), your consumers are gonna know the difference. "what is this swill?? this isn't what we got last time, we're not buying this again!".

    the solution? roast the ever living shit out of it, because everything tastes the same once it's carbonized. cheap coffee roasted light to medium tastes like shit, but each cheap coffee will taste like shit in it's own unique way ("is that dirt or horse dung i taste?"). once you roast it dark enough, all cheap coffee tastes like shit in the SAME way. buyers can swap out greens to keep their bottom line low from year to year, all while offering the same consumer experience (sidebar: this is also where the practice of blending coffee came into being, since it's easier to keep the same flavor if you're only substituting one or two components a year). this is the business model that maxwell house, folgers, etc popularized, and why we don't think of coffee the same way as wine.

    so now you have black coffee, literally, roasted to the point where it's lost anything that once made it unique, and with enough time, this is all consumers ever think of as coffee. the problem is - fundamentally - it does not taste good. it is bitter and acrid and sour and it lacks body, really, just piss poor stuff. how the fuck do we con people into drinking this, other then telling them that the capitalist machine depends on their continued productivity, so they need to take their medicine?

    enter starbucks: starbucks was the first major coffee house to figure out that what they are selling isn't coffee - it's caffeine, in the form of coffee. not only that, but they realized that by intentionally favoring really dark roasts, they could capitalize on how BAD their product tastes by making it necessary to add a fuck ton of sugar, cream, and flavoring to make the shit palatable. making a consumer product that combines sugar, caffeine, and fat was a masterstroke of marketing (a real trifecta of addiction if there ever was one), and it's largely responsible for shifting consumer preferences for our entire population. what was once a dark to very dark roast is now considered a medium roast, and the idea of drinking "black coffee" became this signifier of toughness - "real men drink their coffee black" - as if it was a right of passage or something.

    tl;dr: most commercial coffee was never intended to be drank black - it's engineered to save production costs and to NEED cream and sugar (which make coffee even more habit forming/addicting, driving sales) in order to be palatable. it also set the bar incredibly low for coffee - such that, a lot of roasters realize that they don't need to be making world class coffee, they just need something that is more palatable than folgers - which is honestly where coffee like kicking horse and cafe ibis comes in. while those coffees aren't bad, all they are doing really is sounding like fancy coffee, while really only being a step or two up from Starbucks. those roasters basically exploit consumer ignorance/indifference, knowing that the gap between shit (cheap as fuck coffee) and decent (them) is much bigger than the gap between decent and exceptional, while the price gaps between cheap and decent is much smaller than the price gap between decent and good (Cheap coffee is $8/bag, decent coffee is $12/bag, and good coffee is usually $20-25 a bag).

    enter real, single-origin coffee, like the shit i'm a snob about: SO coffee, when done well, is neither bitter nor acrid, and should have balanced acidity (coffee is acidic, but it shouldn't be overwhelming). good coffee is sweet - not in the sugarwater way, but it does have a pleasant sweetness. good coffee should be much closer to tea in flavor and balance than ash-water.

  21. #121
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    You're putting all of that way better than I could. Glad to see I'm not alone thinking Kicking Horse might be a little darker than some as a baseline. So what do you use as a benchmark for comparison? What are decent coffees that are still widely available enough so that a lot of people have actually tried them?

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    You're putting all of that way better than I could. Glad to see I'm not alone thinking Kicking Horse might be a little darker than some as a baseline. So what do you use as a benchmark for comparison? What are decent coffees that are still widely available enough so that a lot of people have actually tried them?
    stumptown is probably the best, most commonly available coffee. intelligentsia is also great and fairly common. george howell is great and commonly available on the east coast.

    for Utah mags, stumptown is sold at harmons everywhere. it's about $15 a bag. it is to coffee what in 'n out or five guys is to burgers - common, good, well done, and reasonably priced. the only issue with stumptown (or grocery stores in general) is that coffee will often be past it's prime - it will have sat on a shelf for two to three months before you buy it. so, if you buy from a grocery store, check the "roasted on" date. 2 weeks is just fine, up to a month old isn't ideal but it is acceptable, beyond that, you're paying more for something that isn't really worth it.

    again though - if you follow my 5lb bulk & freeze beta, you'll be able to get WAY BETTER coffee for either the same or cheaper than stumptown.
    Last edited by tgapp; 08-20-2020 at 09:48 AM. Reason: details

  23. #123
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    Kieni, single origin served “black”.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfcf13 View Post
    The world needs more Donnely and less Stainless.

  24. #124
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    Fuck man now Im like I could just put whiskey in my coffee? ?? I kinda hate my job right now so maybe I will up that to two whiskies and the liquid courage will give me the horsepower to tell them what I really think! Modern problems vintage solutions!

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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    the only issue with stumptown (or grocery stores in general) is that coffee will often be past it's prime - it will have sat on a shelf for two to three months before you buy it. so, if you buy from a grocery store, check the "roasted on" date. 2 weeks is just fine, up to a month old isn't ideal but it is acceptable, beyond that, you're paying more for something that isn't really worth it.
    In most hipstery citys nowadays there are numerous coffee houses that roast beans in-house. Id suggest buying around for a little while to find a few beans/roasts you like and then just grabbing a bag from there every week or so. Much easier (and healthier during Covid) than rummaging around the coffee aisle at safeway trying to find the most recently roasted bag. Also helps the little guys out during this trying time.

    In the Seattle area we have a local chain coffee house called Ladro that roasts locally (numerous SO options, as well as house blends) that are roasted weekly and a 12oz bag is usually around $15 https://store.caffeladro.com/coffee-c31.aspx . Very much worth getting good beans for some good coffee while working from home. Its gonna be real tough going back to Kuerig at the office when ever that happens again....

    I personally make chemex 90% of the time, and find i like light and light-medium roasts the most with that method.

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