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11-25-2020, 12:17 PM #76Registered User
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We are still measuring around 100 pairs of skis every year, most of the data is on skitest.com. SFI is a norm adjusted to the average ski stiffness, five segments of the ski, 5=average back to front. (So a SFI 86432 would be stiff in the back and soft in the tip) We have been publishing these and a lot of other data in Fri Flyt every year since 2006, a lot of the stuff posted in here is really old. Still doung it though, and it is available if you pay for it I guess.
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11-25-2020, 12:22 PM #77Registered User
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Sorry, My bad. seems like they have taken down the info. Will find what happened to it and get back to you, if not I will dump it on www.eviski.com
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11-25-2020, 12:30 PM #78Registered User
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You will find all the data and a review in norwegian if you follow the link to FriFlyt.no. This should be more easily available internatinally imo.
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11-25-2020, 12:42 PM #79
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11-25-2020, 01:23 PM #80Registered User
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It is a fixed reference now, it is based on the first three years of testing (2006-2009), but as it is interesting to compare skis back in time and also track development of flex curves we fixed it. The average skis of 2020 seem to be a tiny bit softer than an average 2010, the 2010 would be a 55555 and the 2020 is probably near a 55554 (Have not done the actual math on that). The selection of skis and the size of our categories have also changed over the years, so numbers are not directly comparable. We measure more light touring skis in 2020 than 2010, so a softer average flex is expected. The point of the SFI is that you can directly compare a 2007 something 193 to a 2021 something 176.
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11-25-2020, 01:35 PM #81
Great info, thanks! I used to have access to skitest.com and found the flex index helpful as a comparison tool. Good to know about the science behind it.
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11-27-2020, 07:04 AM #82Registered User
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- Aug 2020
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That is super interesting, but I simply think that the word damping is overloaded with different meaning. That is why you need to have the context, and why just getting a "this ski is a flex 7" doesn't help you. With the contexts described, I can think of two different definition for damping. One is how much input a ski gives you for a given terrain (e.g., powder, bumps, etc.). The other one is more related to the pressure distribution on the tip. If there is a lot of pressure on the tip, you can ski to a higher speed before the tip starts flapping around. Both effects, and many others, can be calculated/described from ski measurements.
I agree, this is the holy grail (as is testing the skis yourself). But you need to find a person that is a good match for you and where/how you ski, the ski you are interested in (model and length) and can describe the context sufficiently well for you to understand what they mean. It is not always easy. If 190 cm skis are not your things, it is a little hard to relate to Blister's reviews... shorter skis do not necessarily feel the same as longer one.
A ski is really not that complicated. If we can come up with a list of on-snow feels with associated context, I am sure we can find a way to quantify it. You can then judge if they are useful or not... :-)
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11-27-2020, 07:32 AM #83Registered User
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How are both feeling different? I understand the different situation, but I am not sure about what you perceive...
Super interesting. It makes total sense that a heavy+soft ski will be unpleasant in the air. Beside the more mass that you will have to move in the air (e.g., inertia in rotation), the tip/tail will keep oscillating with large amplitude and for a long time. You will feel that in your boots.
A light+stiff ski will be affected by variable snow both because of the lack of mass (more mass = less momentum change to the ski during impact) and the high stiffness (high stiffness = more of the ski momentum transmitted to the skier).
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11-27-2020, 07:38 AM #84Registered User
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Endre, very inspiring work! But I always wondered why you don't measure the torsional stiffness? We found that skiers are generally more sensitive to torsional stiffness, and that the torsional stiffnesses vary much more than bending stiffness in the skis available. For example, slalom skis have typically very similar bending stiffnesses distribution, but widely varying torsional stiffnesses across brand and depending on if they target beginner or expert skiers...
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11-27-2020, 08:02 AM #85
And on top of the above: A light and stiff ski is more likely to e.g. transmit high frequency vibrations to the skier. Not that it necessarily will change how the ski performs, but it will change how the skier perceives the ski. This experience will vary from skier to skier, depending on ones preferences of the matter.
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11-27-2020, 06:51 PM #86Registered User
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I am very curious about that... do you guys think that you can feel the high frequencies of a ski directly? Beside the first bending mode of a ski at around 10Hz, the other vibration modes are at around 50 (2nd bending), 80 (1st torsion), etc. To give you an idea, you can try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bslHKEh7oZk
Do you think you feel the vibration, e.g., the amplitude or frequency change? Or do you feel some other effect resulting from the ski vibrating like the lost of edge grip, change of direction, the sound it makes, etc? Or maybe even some other effects not necessarily related to vibration, like the ski being pushed all over the place by rough snow?
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11-27-2020, 11:09 PM #87Registered User
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Ski reviews: Qualitative vs Quantitative
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