Why I dislike e-bikes

[nickwm21]

I have never been on a bicycle in the state of Utah but I know not to ride up Bobsled.


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[beaterdit]

I have never been on a bicycle in the state of Utah but I know not to ride up Bobsled.


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Right?! Astounding level of ignorance. He fit the part in basketball shorts and joggers. At least he had a helmet on I guess.

[joetron]

Encountered a clueless ebiker riding up our local Salt Lake City designated DH trail, Bobsled. It's probably the most heavily trafficked designated DH trail in the state. Granted the local crusty hikers keep ripping the directional signs off their posts but still. We're both lucky it ended well.

Like others, the issue I encounter is a sizable influx of absolutely clueless riders getting into places they shouldn't be, and having no idea how to act toward other users.

Murdertown


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[summit]

I just want to know if Clownshoes built Clownshoes, or if he just has big feet?

[LeeLau]

Yeah I get that. I’ve borrowed a buddies ebike and gone for some trail rides around the S2S. It’s definitely a hoot. I’ve gotten some comments as I’ve passed people, but I’ll take it.

I’ve been passed a bunch on climbs by people on ebikes. It definitely triggers a certain feeling in me, but I chalk it up to a failing in my ego, and keep it in check. In the end, what other people are doing or riding shouldn’t affect me at all. I’ve been getting passed on climbs for decades, so I’m used to it.

As someone who deigns and builds bike trails professionally, I think as long as it doesn’t have a twist throttle on it, I think they should be allowed pretty much everywhere. Jurisdictions are free to make their own judgments, but it seems short sighted to me except for perhaps national parks and other protected wilderness areas.

I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Most people in our valley seem pretty cool about it. Good trail etiquette is the key, as it’s always been.

The whole thing seems kind of overblown to me. The people who hate them are really loud about it.

I used to be worried that it would piss off land managers. That doesn't seem to be the case so imo they're good to go.

Amazing tool for trailwork ! Borrowed Sharon's commuter ebike a few times to get up logging and access roads to cut down on time to get to workplace

[LeeLau]

yup defibatley the future especaily as mtn bikers age out, cool to read your input !

how about the North Shore THE birth place of free ride, I looked online at their site and it doesnt look like they have any issues with E bikes ?

up narth it doesnt look like anybody in Terrace, Smithers, Burns lake, PG, Valemont cares cuz there are no trails closed to class 1 e-bikes, I don't know much about more south

IME the hikers are usually old fucks who will hate any thing with 2 wheels, locally they have stopped trail development in " their " area to the south, if they had any foresite they would realize there are not that many bikes of any kind, that together we would have a huge lobby/ get mo money from the BC gov to build infrstructure which the mtn bikers would build and maintain but you know how old fucks are eh

No problem with ebikes in North Van, West Van, Squamish, Fraser Valley. All chill for here

[XXX-er]

Yup not sure about the rest of the south but it sounds like nobody in BC cares

I think its just a matter of time before we hear of somebody getting shot while riding an e-bike in the land of the free

[Clownshoe]

I just want to know if Clownshoes built Clownshoes, or if he just has big feet?

I did build part of the original line back in “the day”. Part of it was an old alignment built by Paddy Kay and Chris Winter in the 90’s. Had tons of help from the WBP trail crew, especially on the woodwork.

The product of a bored bike patroller before WBP was so busy that we just ran wrecks all day!

Parts of the original line remains but it’s been altered and rebuilt probably 5-10 times since then.

[climberevan]

The main issue here in 'Muhrica is the designation of a trail. They are either "motorized" or "non-motorized", and whether the trail is permitted and how it's funded are tied to that designation. Equestrian and hiker groups tend to vehemently oppose "motorized" trails, so they are rarely permitted.

In order for mopeds to legally use a trail, it must be designated "motorized". Changing existing non-motorized trails and creating new ones will be a tough row to hoe. Unfortunately the bicycle industry seems to be perfectly happy to pretend that this issue doesn't exist and that selling a bunch of mopeds to gapers and never telling them that they are illegal on most trails isn't going to result in a backlash.

Locally a planned 80 mile non-motorized trail was (?) cancelled because an equestrian group learned that there might someday be a carve-out that would allow mopeds to use it. This kind of thing is going to become really common. (ETA: I'm trying to find a citation. Initial search seems to indicate that the horsies' opposition might have been overcome.)

Rampant trail poaching is making a lot of enemies for mopeders. They need to advocate for their new form of recreation and negotiate with the other user groups so that they will be accepted. Mountain bikers had to do that, so why shouldn't users of this new thing?

[XXX-er]

I did build part of the original line back in “the day”. Part of it was an old alignment built by Paddy Kay and Chris Winter in the 90’s. Had tons of help from the WBP trail crew, especially on the woodwork.

The product of a bored bike patroller before WBP was so busy that we just ran wrecks all day!

Parts of the original line remains but it’s been altered and rebuilt probably 5-10 times since then.

I salute you sir,

i never rode Clown shoes but I rode the shore a few times in like 88 and even back then it was something different, it was like like continulay riding off the end of my coffee table all the way down a moutain with a solid fork

I rode the shore again early 2000's after 4 days of rain and it was intense, junior did pretty good but I couldn't even ride 90% of pink starfish and in fact ever thing was pretty rough and crazy

but I get the impression its been dummied down

[mmmm...pow!]

Locally a planned 80 mile non-motorized trail was cancelled because an equestrian group learned that there might someday be a carve-out that would allow mopeds to use it. This kind of thing is going to become really common.

Details? Also, as I'm sure you well know, plenty of non-motorized trails around Tahoe are now, or soon will be, legal to certain motors. Fortunately, most of the trails I ride are not heavily used, or predominantly one way, so haven't had too many encounters other than dipshits riding up the trails in jackass area. I would prefer motorbikes sticking to motorized trails, but most of the best trails around here, though clearly built or enhanced by mountain bikers, have no designation and aren't on most maps. And hopefully it stays that way.

[climberevan]

Details?

I still can't find the original thing I was referring to, but here's a quote from the horse group's newsletter. It appears that they have reinforced the trail's designation as non-motorized and it might proceed. Their stance on mopeds is pretty clear--any project that includes them will be torpedoed.

http://www.motherlodetrails.org/alerts/archives/01-2022

"CONTROVERSY OVER MOTORIZED USE
Trail users' representatives have been working on this trail for years as a designated non-motorized trail. Public support and money raised for the Pines to Mine Trail project specified it was to be a "non-motorized" trail. The controversy started at the August 2021 Nevada County Board of Supervisors meeting to approve funding. Tahoe National Forest Supervisor Eli Llano included into request for funding the environmental report the use of motorized e-bikes. The trail-using public and then the Nevada County Board of Supervisors objected and said they were not appraised of this change and would not provide the funding promised for the environmental report if e-bikes were allowed. Here is the article:
"Nevada Co Board of Supes approves funding for non-motorized Pines to Mines Trail without the addition of motorized e-bikes"

LETTER OF SUPPORT FROM NEVADA CO BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
"The Nevada County Board of Supervisors would like to express their support for the proposed Pines To Mines Trail, a multi use, non-motorized trail connection between the Nevada County municipalities of Truckee and Nevada City. The trail will be suitable for use by hikers, equestrians, and mountain bikers."
Complete letter CLICK HERE.

REGARDLESS OF OBJECTIONS, E-BIKES MENTIONED AS AN ALLOWABLE USE IN PUBLIC DOCUMENTS
The e-bike inclusion is now in the public documents posted online. It is up to the public to object over the inclusion of allowable use of motorized e-bikes on the Pines to Mines non-motorized trail."

[climberevan]

Also, as I'm sure you well know, plenty of non-motorized trails around Tahoe are now, or soon will be, legal to certain motors. Fortunately, most of the trails I ride are not heavily used, or predominantly one way, so haven't had too many encounters other than dipshits riding up the trails in jackass area. I would prefer motorbikes sticking to motorized trails, but most of the best trails around here, though clearly built or enhanced by mountain bikers, have no designation and aren't on most maps. And hopefully it stays that way.

The means by which USFS will make those trails legal is to re-designate them as "motorized" trails but to exclude motor vehicles other than class 1 e-bikes. Their latest memo makes that clear. It's a kluge, and will really piss off the non-motorized user groups.

Bandit/unsanctioned trails are not really part of the discussion, and many (most?) of the bandit trails in N Tahoe are on timber company land anyway, so USFS is kind of irrelevant. In many ways the timber company trails are more like the trails on Crown land in Canada, where they seem to be tolerated as long as no one makes too much noise about them.

[XXX-er]

In many ways the timber company trails are more like the trails on Crown land in Canada, where they seem to be tolerated as long as no one makes too much noise about them.

Maybe back in the day it was not on their radar but ever buddy knows whats going on nowdays so I don't think illegal trails or ski cabins are tolerated by the BC gov ,

now days building without permission might not go well, but if you do get permission, build to the whistler bike park standard the gov is giving out money

[LeeLau]

Maybe back in the day it was not on their radar but ever buddy knows whats going on nowdays so I don't think illegal trails or ski cabins are tolerated by the BC gov ,

now days building without permission might not go well, but if you do get permission, build to the whistler bike park standard the gov is giving out money

Depends on the Forest Service and its mood imo. Zeerip got into hot water with FS over the Oscar cabin up near Terrace even though he kept it quiet and locals kept their mouths shut.

Meanwhile down south in the Duffey Pemberton locals stuck the Steep Creek cabin in, then Facebooked the hell out of it, get mad at other people who wanted to stay there (not me; I'd heard about their vibes) and to top it off, when a MoF (or MoT) staffer dropped by the cabin, told them him to get f3xcked. It's still surprising that thing didn't get a tear down notice.

So, it depends

[XXX-er]

yeah well i did say " might " and it was infact Zeerip who told me don't EVER build anything illegal

And it might be a little different locally cuz it might very well be govy guys not doing the building, I was helping with a " non-permanent structure on crown land " I forget exactly who the players all were but i think some were govy , I asked " are we allowed to be doing this ? " Oh yeah so & so said as long as its not a permanent structure no problem " so while some campers put a snow shed over an old 24' belaire trailer I dug a hole for one of them dark green outhouses borrowed from parks

Locally in the biking SMBA took down some old illegal features on the bluff which sounds sucky but on the other hand the gov gave them a bunch of grant money, IMO if you want grant $ getting permission is the way to go

[Dantheman]

I still can't find the original thing I was referring to, but here's a quote from the horse group's newsletter. It appears that they have reinforced the trail's designation as non-motorized and it might proceed. Their stance on mopeds is pretty clear--any project that includes them will be torpedoed.

http://www.motherlodetrails.org/alerts/archives/01-2022

"CONTROVERSY OVER MOTORIZED USE
Trail users' representatives have been working on this trail for years as a designated non-motorized trail. Public support and money raised for the Pines to Mine Trail project specified it was to be a "non-motorized" trail. The controversy started at the August 2021 Nevada County Board of Supervisors meeting to approve funding. Tahoe National Forest Supervisor Eli Llano included into request for funding the environmental report the use of motorized e-bikes. The trail-using public and then the Nevada County Board of Supervisors objected and said they were not appraised of this change and would not provide the funding promised for the environmental report if e-bikes were allowed. Here is the article:
"Nevada Co Board of Supes approves funding for non-motorized Pines to Mines Trail without the addition of motorized e-bikes"

LETTER OF SUPPORT FROM NEVADA CO BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
"The Nevada County Board of Supervisors would like to express their support for the proposed Pines To Mines Trail, a multi use, non-motorized trail connection between the Nevada County municipalities of Truckee and Nevada City. The trail will be suitable for use by hikers, equestrians, and mountain bikers."
Complete letter CLICK HERE.

REGARDLESS OF OBJECTIONS, E-BIKES MENTIONED AS AN ALLOWABLE USE IN PUBLIC DOCUMENTS
The e-bike inclusion is now in the public documents posted online. It is up to the public to object over the inclusion of allowable use of motorized e-bikes on the Pines to Mines non-motorized trail."

Locally, a HOH group that is torpedoing SLC's foothill trail system expansion has specifically cited ebikes among their reasons for opposing the project (opposition that came *after* 2 years of planning and 2 public comment periods, but I digress...). It's mentioned somewhere in the second guest's interview (sorry, I don't have the timestamp): https://radiowest.kuer.org/local-new...oothill-trails

SLC is already at least 10 years behind where need to be on trail development.

[skinipenem]

Yeah I get that. I’ve borrowed a buddies ebike and gone for some trail rides around the S2S. It’s definitely a hoot. I’ve gotten some comments as I’ve passed people, but I’ll take it.

I’ve been passed a bunch on climbs by people on ebikes. It definitely triggers a certain feeling in me, but I chalk it up to a failing in my ego, and keep it in check. In the end, what other people are doing or riding shouldn’t affect me at all. I’ve been getting passed on climbs for decades, so I’m used to it.

As someone who deigns and builds bike trails professionally, I think as long as it doesn’t have a twist throttle on it, I think they should be allowed pretty much everywhere. Jurisdictions are free to make their own judgments, but it seems short sighted to me except for perhaps national parks and other protected wilderness areas.

I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Most people in our valley seem pretty cool about it. Good trail etiquette is the key, as it’s always been.

The whole thing seems kind of overblown to me. The people who hate them are really loud about it.

I support this post. Pretty much sums up my view as well.

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[skinipenem]

Equestrians will use any reason to limit bicycle access or any other user that takes up space on 'their' trails.

Ebikes are misunderstood enough that ebikes bring a perfect scapegoat to kaibash access. This is more an issue of education that ebikes do not cause more impact other than more miles traveled.

The evike debate reminds me of the 1990s when we fought for access. Lots of smiling, waving, and good etiquette.

A lot of civil disobedience in the 1990s by those who saw the inevitable and impatiently waved the finger to the regs. I suppose most anti-ebikers didn't use THC until it became legal where they breathed.

I'm out, time to go ride bikes.

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[Bunion 2020]

SLC is already at least 10 years behind where need to be on trail development.

Bozeman is more like 20 years behind, has a vocal minority of Mtn Bike haters with lots of time and $$$. The explosion of E-bikes here mixed in with that user group is not a good sign.

Good trail etiquette is the key, as it’s always been.

Does Good trail etiquette include not riding where you are not allowed? Nevermind it won't matter, these people would hate you no matter what type of bike you are on. To them a Motorcycle, an E-bike or a Mountain Bike are all spawn of the devil.

This is more an issue of education that ebikes do not cause more impact other than more miles traveled.

Will you agree that more miles=more impacts (trail wear and tear) and more encounters=more potential conflict?

[XXX-er]

I breezed by a buddy stopped/ sweating/ dying on the trail last week and then later in the bar, where he said it was obvious to him he needed to ride more & get in better shape to which I replied I was on an E-bike so he didnt really suck as much as he thot

[skinipenem]

Will you agree that more miles=more impacts (trail wear and tear) and more encounters=more potential conflict?

Agreed.

Flipside: My 22 year old body in race shape riding more than 50 miles if singletrack on a ride in the 1990s would do that too. More cyclists means more representation. I never bought into the elitist ideals of not sharing the trails.

More potential encounters equals more friends to make on the trail.

My two year old really needs to wake up so I can go ride bikes with the fam.




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[Bunion 2020]

Pretend I posted something terribly inflammatory towards you, e-bikes and Canadians and start yelling at the computer. That should do it.

Its been raining for 3 days straight here, I don't have such options. U r Welcome.

[grinch]

May I ?

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[Bunion 2020]

If you think it will wake baby up, have at it. Maybe this?