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  1. #1
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    Interesting article about high altitude training


    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  2. #2
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    Guess you'll never have to worry about this. lol
    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  3. #3
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    Sounds like I'm ready to go hit Everest... ive been training on a high fat diet and moving slow for years. I might even have 200,000 calories packed away and ready for extreme feats of climbing!

  4. #4
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    I think its more than gorging on texas BBQ, if we goggle around on Metabolic efficiency

    " Metabolic Efficiency, in brief, means improving the body's ability to use its energy stores more efficiently through proper nutrition and exercise implementation strategies. The body stores very few carbohydrates and an abundance of fat. Through proper daily nutrition and exercise, the body can be trained to use both more efficiently. "

    I hung out with an ultra runner/coach for a weekend, he was telling me the key was to train to burn fat and he had it down to the science, buddy skied 40kms/climbed 30,000 ft in <13hrs doing Hammer gels and Hammer perpetuem
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  5. #5
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    Sure was an interesting read. Fascinating stuff.

    It's been a while since I listened to this Blister podcast about Mike McKnight running 100 miles on zero calories. I think there are some similarities in diet and training strategy. Kudos to all the guys and gals pushing limits and testing alternative diet and training systems.

    https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/t...calories-ep-51
    Master of mediocrity.

  6. #6
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    N=1 already elite athlete attempting a feat very few individuals will ever be in danger of attempting.

    Take it with a grain of salt.

    Up hill athlete has some good stuff but it’s also a bunch of skinny weak dudes.

  7. #7
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    Sorry - what is interesting about this --
    that he went full Keto?

  8. #8
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    I was reading up on training strategies for road biking earlier this summer when I still thought I might get to do some events, and I came across similar advice around going slow to go fast, and that you should do a lot of training in Zone 2. I found it kind of hard to believe...all I know is banging my head against the wall...but I guess there's something to it. Good read, thanks for sharing.

  9. #9
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    I'm actually going to give this a try on my trip to big bear next month. Thanks!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan_pdx View Post
    I was reading up on training strategies for road biking earlier this summer when I still thought I might get to do some events, and I came across similar advice around going slow to go fast, and that you should do a lot of training in Zone 2. I found it kind of hard to believe...all I know is banging my head against the wall...but I guess there's something to it. Good read, thanks for sharing.
    I am trying to discipline myself to spend more time in zone 2 this season. I had read articles about doing more easy efforts but always found it hard to rein it in on bike rides.

    FWIW - I did the Keto thing for 60 days last year. For about a week I felt like I was in that Keto zone of burning fat and not needing much in the way of gels or energy bars on longer rides. Then after I burned off 10 lbs of fat, I found the diet didn't work so great for me. Felt sluggish and just couldn't get into the top end "gear" for hard efforts.

    But from that experience it was amazing how fast the weight came off. Just not a diet that would be permanent lifestyle change. I need my carbs!
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  11. #11
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    So, fill your pockets with bacon instead of English muffins at the hotel breakfast buffet?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    So, fill your pockets with bacon instead of English muffins at the hotel breakfast buffet?
    Do they still have breakfast buffets? I thought they went extinct with the COVID?
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    N=1 already elite athlete attempting a feat very few individuals will ever be in danger of attempting.

    Take it with a grain of salt.

    Up hill athlete has some good stuff but it’s also a bunch of skinny weak dudes.
    Correct about N=1.
    When N=100, then we can see the pros and cons.
    Sir Hillary used mint candy at regular intervals.
    Apparently the stuff is so delicious that they actually had a shortage to meet all the others climbers wants.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    Do they still have breakfast buffets? I thought they went extinct with the COVID?
    Check with Benny.

  15. #15
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    https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-stone-1265717a

    This is the guy to talk to if you are really serious about this stuff.

  16. #16
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    Thank you.

  17. #17
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    In searching for something else, I randomly came across this thread / article.

    I'm the one who tested Cory and in all honesty I'm not sure I've ever seen another athlete whom burns as much Fat compared to Carbohydrate as him.

  18. #18
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    It's definitely true that one can alter the mix of fuels your body uses at various output levels through training within vague bands of heart rate and fuel availability (there's a lot of research on this done in the running world about easy-to-moderate paced runs done first thing in the morning in a fasted state having an impact on fuel mix of fast paced runs in fed states).

    It's categorically false that a person whose body relies a lot on carbohydrates only has a "45 minutes of fuel storage". Even with the Uphill Athlete guys' continued neglect of processes like gluconeogenesis, there is a huge amount of evidence that the prototypical 70-80kg adult human has ~1600 calories of glycogen stored in muscle and ~400 calories of glycogen stored in their liver.

    That number isn't like gasoline in your car though. To simplify a bit your body can recoup about 1/3 of the calories from glucose metabolism by sending the lactate (the end-product of glucose metabolism) through the Cori cycle in your liver, which stretches out your glycogen stores further. That's before even getting into your body's ability to create glucose out of amino acids and/or triglycerides.

    It's definitely true that humans carry orders of magnitude more calories in the form of fat than they do carbohydrates, but these physiology discussions that say completely bonkers things about the finitude of glycogen/glucose stores are ridiculous. It's also definitely true that you can train with the intention of inducing adaptation to different physiologic conditions and that that might pay dividends depending on what you're trying to accomplish.

    I think the Uphill Athlete guys have figured out a formula that works, but have lost sight of the fact that over millennia of evolution our bodies have evolved a ton of systems to allow us to adapt to almost any available fuel mixture, in a variety of climates, and under a lot of physiologic stress.

    The story Michael Joyner tells about the 1964 Tokyo Olympic 5,000m final demonstrates the point really well I think:
    Schul, who was from the United States ran 13:48.8 and beat Harald Norpoth of Germany and Bill Dellinger also from the U.S. The great Kip Keino of Kenya was 5th anticipating his Olympic success in 1968 and 72, and also anticipating the rise of the Kenyan runners. It was a close race run on a slow and muddy dirt track. The last few laps of the race were very fast in spite of the conditions.

    Training Methods 101
    The race also serves as a short primer on training methods:

    - Schul was interval trained and literally did intervals twice a day almost every day. I looked up some of his old workouts in the classic book “How They Train” by Fred Wilt. He might do a brief warmup and then 30-40 times 100 meters in the morning. The afternoon would include a brief warm up and then many longer intervals between 150-400 meters. My guess is that this sometimes added up to about 70-80 miles per week.

    - Norpoth was a disciple of Ernst Van Aaken the originator of so-called long slow distance (LSD) training that included very high mileage. He did long slow runs up to 30 miles or more and also restricted his diet to get as skinny as possible. Mileage well in excess of 100 miles per week was done and perhaps only about 5% of the total was anything near race pace.

    -Dellinger, who was later the track coach at Oregon, was coached by the legendary innovator Bill Bowerman and did the sort of mixed training popular today which would include longer runs, intervals, hills, and sprints. This program also featured the classic hard-easy pattern advocated by Bowerman.

    - Also in the race was Ron Clarke, who ultimately set 19 distance running world records. Clarke did a lot of long fast continuous runs with surges and raced often and fast. He did what we might call threshold training. Clarke also frequently ran more than 100 miles per week in training. What he did in the 1960s also seems similar to what anecdotal reports indicate the East Africans are doing today.
    Among the 5 most elite 5,000m runners in 1964 there was one from virtually every single modern school of training methodology and they all finished within 1.6 seconds of one another.

  19. #19
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    5,000m sounds like a lot longer distance than a 5k. Took me a second to realize they’re the same.

    5 elite racers all finishing 1.6 seconds apart is incredible.

  20. #20
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    thanks for the anecdote ptavv... very interesting.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bot.gee View Post
    thanks for the anecdote ptavv... very interesting.
    The Bots are getting bold
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  22. #22
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    That was an interesting read. Do those principals apply at say 10,500-14,000 as well?

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