Is the 20/21 ski season over at resorts already?

[Reno912]

I googled how many people have died from Covid. Google says about 898,000. That sounds like a lot, but I also googled some other death rates and this is what I found:

CDC estimates 1.35 million people die is car accidents every year.

1.5 million people died from tuberculosis in 2018.

17.9 million people die of heart disease every year.

The WHO estimates 290,000-650,000 people died from the flu in 2017.

It seems that the news coverage and worldwide reaction to Covid doesn't actually fall in line with the level of risk it poses.

[summit]

It seems that the news coverage and worldwide reaction to Covid doesn't actually fall in line with the level of risk it poses.

1. Remember that COVID deaths are what they are after painful mitigation measures to keep them as low as they are.
2. Let's talk US deaths so we don't have to consider with the vast variety in health, testing and mitigation strategies across the gamut of 195 countries.
3. COVID is the #3 cause of death in USA in 2020.

After all the reaction that limited COVID's spread: the economic restrictions, distancing, masking, crash treatment programs, healthcare retooling, after everything, COVID is still the #3 cause of death in the USA.

On a weekly basis, there were times where COVID was the #1 cause of death in the USA. Had we not done all these painful protective measures, COVID would have been the #1 cause of death in the USA, and probably larger than the next three causes combined (cancer, heart disease, accidents). And, in becoming #1, COVID would have generated a worse economic impact than what we self-imposed.

So does the COVID reaction seem more understandable now?

[summit]

I could have worded my stat better.

Anyway, imo, we need to look at full picture and stop pretending covid is the only risk in this world. Let’s consider the covid death risk vs worldwide debt loads, destruction of small business, livelihoods, delayed cancer treatments etc etc. Covid cases will likely be with us for years despite trumps promise of a vaccine.

I don’t want anyone to die but we need to be adults here and make some tough decisions.
My vote is to isolate the vulnerable and get this world opened back up. There are serious implications to shutting down the economy for years on end.

I totally agree with you that all impacts gotta be considered including economic and societal impacts of painful mitigation strategies.

What you have to realize is that the idea of isolating the vulnerable only works is healthy/young societies. The US is on among the sickest (in terms of comorbidities) and the oldest. Obesity, hypertension, diabetes, old age... your vulnerable to COVID population... well, at least 50% of the US population has at least one of those risk factors. So, how do you isolate??? In the USA, it is just a nice thought and a talking point for pundits and those well meaning people who want something better than our current situation but don't regularly ponder the population health factors of the USA.

It is literally easier to isolate the vulnerable in Africa because they are comparatively rare.

[Dantheman]

1. Remember that COVID deaths are what they are after painful mitigation measures to keep them as low as they are.
2. Let's talk US deaths so we don't have to consider with the vast variety in health, testing and mitigation strategies across the gamut of 195 countries.
3. COVID is the #3 cause of death in USA in 2020.

After all the reaction that limited COVID's spread: the economic restrictions, distancing, masking, crash treatment programs, healthcare retooling, after everything, COVID is still the #3 cause of death in the USA.

On a weekly basis, there were times where COVID was the #1 cause of death in the USA. Had we not done all these painful protective measures, COVID would have been the #1 cause of death in the USA, and probably larger than the next three causes combined (cancer, heart disease, accidents). And, in becoming #1, COVID would have generated a worse economic impact than what we self-imposed.

So does the COVID reaction seem more understandable now?

Thanks for this. Let's also remember that the current COVID death toll is assuredly an undercount that will be revised upward in the future.

[The SnowShow]

Thanks for this. Let's also remember that the current COVID death toll is assuredly an undercount that will be revised upward in the future.

Not according to that same friend. She thinks hospitals are over counting to get paid more from CV deaths. It’s mind numbing that many out there think this.

[xyz]

What you have to realize is that the idea of isolating the vulnerable only works is healthy/young societies. The US is on among the sickest (in terms of comorbidities) and the oldest. Obesity, hypertension, diabetes, old age... your vulnerable to COVID population... well, at least 50% of the US population has at least one of those risk factors.

And why are Americans so unhealthy and at risk? Poor diet and sedentary lifestyles are mostly to blame id say. Why doesn’t taking some personal responsibility for ones health ever get discussed in relation to covid?

[iriponsnow]

And why are Americans so unhealthy and at risk? Poor diet and sedentary lifestyles are mostly to blame id say. Why doesn’t taking some personal responsibility for ones health ever get discussed in relation to covid?

^ this

[The SnowShow]

And why are Americans so unhealthy and at risk? Poor diet and sedentary lifestyles are mostly to blame id say. Why doesn’t taking some personal responsibility for ones health ever get discussed in relation to covid?

I feel like the government and media dropped the ball regarding this. If they had come out in March and told everyone to eat well, take vitamins like D, lose some weight, and exercise more, who knows how much better people’s outcomes would be.

[goldenboy]

1. Remember that COVID deaths are what they are after painful mitigation measures to keep them as low as they are.
2. Let's talk US deaths so we don't have to consider with the vast variety in health, testing and mitigation strategies across the gamut of 195 countries.
3. COVID is the #3 cause of death in USA in 2020.

After all the reaction that limited COVID's spread: the economic restrictions, distancing, masking, crash treatment programs, healthcare retooling, after everything, COVID is still the #3 cause of death in the USA.

On a weekly basis, there were times where COVID was the #1 cause of death in the USA. Had we not done all these painful protective measures, COVID would have been the #1 cause of death in the USA, and probably larger than the next three causes combined (cancer, heart disease, accidents). And, in becoming #1, COVID would have generated a worse economic impact than what we self-imposed.

So does the COVID reaction seem more understandable now?

Yep. And I still think that not enough is being said for the lasting symptoms that many/most? of the people I know still suffer from months later. It isn't just the deaths.

[TahoeJ]

I feel like the government and media dropped the ball regarding this. If they had come out in March and told everyone to eat well, take vitamins like D, lose some weight, and exercise more, who knows how much better people’s outcomes would be.

That’s a pipe dream unfortunately. They were telling Americans to do this shit for years.

[Dantheman]

That’s a pipe dream unfortunately. They were telling Americans to do this shit for years.

Seriously. Have you guys been asleep for the last 20 years?

[summit]

Thanks for this. Let's also remember that the current COVID death toll is assuredly an undercount that will be revised upward in the future.

Very much undercounted... despite the hysteria of certain circles, the rules for counting a death as a COVID death are stricter than many other diseases on the CDC mortality list.
Also, noting it is running #3 cause of death for 2020 so far despite having only killed people for 6 of the 8 months.

Yep. And I still think that not enough is being said for the lasting symptoms that many/most? of the people I know still suffer from months later. It isn't just the deaths.

A great point... there are such great concerns that lie between the outcomes of survival and death. Extended sequelae of COVID, whether health or economic, are of colossal concern. Most people who get COVID live, including those hospitalized, but the consequences are real and extensive. For outdoorsy people, not being able to perform athletically is a real impact, life changing if permanent (cardiac/pulmonary damage). For others, losing their job or sustaining crippling health bills are life changing impact that can last a decade or more.

And why are Americans so unhealthy and at risk? Poor diet and sedentary lifestyles are mostly to blame id say. Why doesn’t taking some personal responsibility for ones health ever get discussed in relation to covid?

Absolutely a good point! I am a huge proponent of personal responsibility.

Here is the issue. In the first world, the only 3 acute pathologies are trauma, toxins and infection. The rest of the modern pathology requires years or decades to create an acute event; if possible to manage or reverse, it takes years.

So demanding people take responsibility for conditions created over a lifetime that are their risk factors (including age) for the black swan event that is a COVID infection, is not a particularly productive push in the short term on an individual basis. Long term, yea, American diet, lifestyles, and lack of preventative care are critical issues for society and public health.

[xyz]

So demanding people take responsibility for conditions created over a lifetime that are their risk factors (including age) for the black swan event that is a COVID infection, is not a particularly productive push in the short term on an individual basis. Long term, yea, American diet, lifestyles, and lack of preventative care are critical issues for society and public health.

Perfect! I’ll ride the couch and smash KFC 24/7 until a vaccine is delivered.

[summit]

Perfect! I’ll ride the couch and smash KFC 24/7 until a vaccine is delivered.

Rereading my post, I"d add, yes, encouraging change now will have positive impact, but not a huge impact. Keeping it up forever has a much bigger impact than the short term minimal mitigation of chronic COVID risk factors.

[k2skier112]

I googled how many people have died from Covid. Google says about 898,000. That sounds like a lot, but I also googled some other death rates and this is what I found:

CDC estimates 1.35 million people die is car accidents every year.

1.5 million people died from tuberculosis in 2018.

17.9 million people die of heart disease every year.

The WHO estimates 290,000-650,000 people died from the flu in 2017.

It seems that the news coverage and worldwide reaction to Covid doesn't actually fall in line with the level of risk it poses.

So we're all done with SARS-CoV-2??!!

Turn off Fox Fake News...they're the ones pushing 94% of deaths have underlying conditions and comparing it to other deaths.

This is barely half way through this pandemic. WITH NO VACCINE yet!!! Do you understand that?

[The AD]

CDC estimates 1.35 million people die is car accidents every year.

And billions of dollars have been spent to make automobile travel safer. Also car accidents aren't contagious.

1.5 million people died from tuberculosis in 2018.

TB is both curable and preventable.

17.9 million people die of heart disease every year.

Not infectious.

The WHO estimates 290,000-650,000 people died from the flu in 2017.

Clearly the most directly comparable and it hasn't killed more people in a single year than COVID since 1968, and that number will be eclipsed by COVID soon. Also effective vaccines exist for the flu.

It seems that the news coverage and worldwide reaction to Covid doesn't actually fall in line with the level of risk it poses.

It all depends on how you look at it. It isn't remotely comparable to any of the other things you listed other than the flu.

[xyz]

Rereading my post, I"d add, yes, encouraging change now will have positive impact, but not a huge impact. Keeping it up forever has a much bigger impact than the short term minimal mitigation of chronic COVID risk factors.

Let’s face it. Lifestyle and diet aren’t talked about because there’s more money made to made in sickness rather than health. Fast food and pharmaceuticals are big business. The fatter and sicker we get, they richer they get.

[Vitamin I]

...What you have to realize is that the idea of isolating the vulnerable only works is healthy/young societies. The US is on among the sickest (in terms of comorbidities) and the oldest. Obesity, hypertension, diabetes, old age... your vulnerable to COVID population... well, at least 50% of the US population has at least one of those risk factors. So, how do you isolate???....

I think USA could have done PLENTY MORE to better protect the vulnerable. Whatever USA actually did for the vulnerable, was that the best they could do? No, not even close.

I don't mean forcing the vulnerable into perfectly sterile isolation prisons against their will. I mean there MUST be a lot of not-so-extreme things USA could have done to better protect the vulnerable. Instead, USA seemed to ignore the vulnerable and just look for any other possible shiny thing they could focus their attention on while the vulnerable die off, duh.

.

[Dantheman]

Let’s face it. Lifestyle and diet aren’t talked about because there’s more money made to made in sickness rather than health. Fast food and pharmaceuticals are big business. The fatter and sicker we get, they richer they get.

Public health officials have been imploring Americans to eat healthier, get more exercise and sleep more for 30 years.

[The SnowShow]

Faced with a deadly virus, maybe people could have taken that advice more seriously.

[Peruvian]

Public health officials have been imploring Americans to eat healthier, get more exercise and sleep more for 30 years.

You sure about that? The USDA food pyramid was based on a high intake of carbohydrates and low intake of all fats (including healthy fats such as some fish, olives, nuts, etc). It's now well understood that such a diet can lead to diabetes and heart disease.

Meanwhile, high sugar foods have grown in number and size over the last 30 years. A 'small' Coke is the size of the 'large' from the 70s and 80s, excess sugar is laced into all sorts of 'health' products, and demand for output means Americans get less sleep than they did decades ago.

xyz nailed it - there's money in those clogged arteries and obesity.

[Dantheman]

Faced with a deadly virus, maybe people could have taken that advice more seriously.

Heart disease, cancer and diabetes are also deadly, but people give no fucks. Also, half the country thinks COVID is a hoax, so why live healthier to combat a threat they don't think exists?

[Dantheman]

You sure about that? The USDA food pyramid was based on a high intake of carbohydrates and low intake of all fats (including healthy fats such as some fish, olives, nuts, etc). It's now well understood that such a diet can lead to diabetes and heart disease.

The food pyramid hasn't existed for almost decade. Also, while flawed, the food pyramid is still a vast improvement over how most Americans eat.

Meanwhile, high sugar foods have grown in number and size over the last 30 years. A 'small' Coke is the size of the 'large' from the 70s and 80s, excess sugar is laced into all sorts of 'health' products, and demand for output means Americans get less sleep than they did decades ago.

NYC tried to limit portion sizes for sugary drinks. How'd that work out? Michelle Obama spent 8 years trying to get kids to exercise more and make school lunches marginally healthier and conservatives practically crucified her. Half the country considers mask-wearing in indoor public spaces to be one step away from Stalinism, do you really think those people will accept being told to put the fork down?

[uglymoney]

A soccer mom from a higher risk demographic we know is warning people how serious Covid is now that she is on day 24 and still suffering from extended symptoms. We should take every precaution she says.

Looking back on her Facebook she lost a relative to covids a couple months ago. The next month is full of unmasked extended family get together and numerous outings to restaurants and other public events.

She doesn't know how she got it. She is a Trump hater. She does work at a hospital.

I just find her lack of self awareness to be astonishing. Maybe she caught it at work but she gave herself ample other opportunities. Why? She knew better. I am trying not to judge but it is hard.

Why are so many people unable to take cues from recent history. How many covid sick dead injured do people need? Apparently nothing breaks through till it happens to them?

Climate change isn't real till your house burns down or your water runs out?

I'm not hanging out with Democrats or Republicans right now. The Republicans I know aren't worried in the least and think this shit is going away after the election or they claim not to know who to believe. I've never felt more distant from them. How can I be friends with science deniers who support a Nazi? Distance makes them all seem Q razy af.

A lot of the Democrats/apolitical type friends think it is serious but most seem to lack the discipline to sustain any sort of long term distancing/masking/otherwise avoiding riskier situations because apparently they can't give up or modify their usual social interactions/drinking activities.

We do know quite a few of our daughters parents/neighbors who are progressive and aligned with us. She picks good friends.

It is weird time.

Off to get my flu shot.











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[The SnowShow]

^^^ I know a nurse who posts about wearing masks and about how seriously it is, then has other posts from her travels all around this summer to places that are hot spots. It comes off so bad.