Is the 20/21 ski season over at resorts already?

**abraham** · 08-13-2020, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

A vaccine for a virus for which the 18 pervious strains never had one developed.

You can't even buy a pass now for three of the largest NE ski resorts by visitation either. 20% of the NE market in terms of skier visits is basically shut out to passholders already. I agree it is almost so unthinkable it is hard to believe, yet here we are.

This just bums me out so much I'm turning into Benny.

Uhhhh that's not what the number there means.

I'm pretty pessimistic at the moment too, it's hard to see a normal season this year, and as bunion mentioned a long time ago there may be long term repercussions that limit terrain openings and snow safety in the seasons after

**Benny Profane** · 08-13-2020, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

Of course there will always be a pass, but will it be worth it? I don't think so.

Passes used to be 20-30 day paybacks, or more. My prediction is we return to that much quicker than most realize.

Even if they don't, take Magic for example. The darling of the EC independents is only allowing pass holders to make a reservation on Monday or Tuesday. Can't commit a Saturday almost a week ahead of time and you are shit out of luck. As in, you can only make a reservation for a day ticket after Tuesday, that is, if they aren't sold out already. Oh and no discounts on that day ticket ever. PS, your kid needs to be in a private group. Cha Ching. These rules are in effect until a vaccine is out by the way. A vaccine for a virus for which the 18 pervious strains never had one developed.

https://magicmtn.com/alpine-update/

Seriously, why would you buy that pass now? It fucking rains there half the time and you need to commit week in advance. Surprise pow day on a Thursday? Better nut the fuck up for a day ticket, your pass is worthless. As of right now, that is the future. Fuck that.

You can't even buy a pass now for three of the largest NE ski resorts by visitation either. 20% of the NE market in terms of skier visits is basically shut out to passholders already. I agree it is almost so unthinkable it is hard to believe, yet here we are.

This just bums me out so much I'm turning into Benny.

Ha, well, maybe one of those now vintage 3000 dollar t-shirts will get you VIP status. Ooh, front of the line, sir!

**The SnowShow** · 08-13-2020, 07:44 PM

Today Winter Park’s blog updated with some vague info about the winter season. One thing does stand out: pre-purchased reservations to limit people on the mountain.

All these mountains are going to have to find a fair way to do this. Looks like this season the families who ski every weekend are going to have to find something else to do when they’re not picked. I70 traffic should be better though.

**AdironRider** · 08-13-2020, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by abraham

Uhhhh that's not what the number there means.

I'm pretty pessimistic at the moment too, it's hard to see a normal season this year, and as bunion mentioned a long time ago there may be long term repercussions that limit terrain openings and snow safety in the seasons after

In terms of skier visits it’s probably very close. Boyne’s three resorts, Sugarloaf, Sunday River and Loon have very solid visitation numbers and are serious players in the NE market.

**Conundrum** · 08-13-2020, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

As of right now, that is the future.

As of right now, it is August in the northern hemisphere. Projection...

**Core Shot** · 08-14-2020, 01:59 AM

As of right now, a few New England resorts are showing their hand. And it’s not a full house.

Maybe they sense the fact that many people won’t fly.

But that aspen presser hints at locals not skiing whenever they want. They just haven’t spelled it out in detail.

Season passes for 100 day skiers only work if you have excess capacity. We won’t have that this year.

Vibes to the everyday ski bums.

A $1,200 pass is the same as a week of $200 day tickets. Guess who they like better?

**skifishbum** · 08-14-2020, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

As of right now, a few New England resorts are showing their hand. And it’s not a full house.

Maybe they sense the fact that many people won’t fly.

But that aspen presser hints at locals not skiing whenever they want. They just haven’t spelled it out in detail.

Season passes for 100 day skiers only work if you have excess capacity. We won’t have that this year.

Vibes to the everyday ski bums.

A $1,200 pass is the same as a week of $200 day tickets. Guess who they like better?

no vibes needed
the bums will ski to some degree
my guess would be whether they like it/us or not
they will bestow comp passes and skiing for those who supply them with things they need
like employment labor
they aint collect paycheck bums
thats a fringe benny
the majority are there to ski

**EWG** · 08-14-2020, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained

I laughed...

As a daily skier, a rez system will indeed be problematic for me. I may or may not be able to cope with that.
Actually, I did get 4 of those 1/2 off vouchers when I got my pass in the spring.

At the moment JHMR's pass page says unlimited skiing for full boat, etc. Obviously that may change. The pass refund opportunity goes thru 10/15. If they change it up after that date, I expect these suits.

@Benny - I'll get all but $45 bux back if I opt out in Oct., admin. fee - chump change.

It may help to be in a state like Wyo with low covidz numbers and a republican Gov. who will likely push the envelope for the sake of the monies.

All of this.

**EWG** · 08-14-2020, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ski220

You can be damn well sure that Epic / Icon crunched those numbers years ago when they launched.

I have no clue as to where this is going in the future for them.

For the independents, early season pass sales are a way of guaranteeing a cash flow during an off season.

Are areas going to go the golf model? Make you pay through the nose for exclusivity? I have a 'season' pass at the municipal course. It costs me $12 to walk a crowded under maintained course. Or, I could drive up the road and pay $200 a round for immaculate conditions. Or join a club for thousands per year?

There is the Yellowstone club. Original club already went bankrupt. Others that tried that have too.

Money is on Covid19 being a temporary condition. Don't think they will upend the entire business model permanently.

And this.

**Bunion 2020** · 08-14-2020, 06:44 AM

they will bestow comp passes and skiing for those who supply them with things they need
like employment labor

If you think that the employees/comps won't be the first group who has their skiing limited you are stoned to the gills.

**skifishbum** · 08-14-2020, 07:15 AM

if you think skibums will work for less $$$ and not ski.......
the stoned parts a givin

**muted** · 08-14-2020, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

This just bums me out so much I'm turning into Benny.

Whoa, let's not go off the edge now.

It may suck this year to have a conglomerate pass with a CEO who can shut down multiple properties at once compared to an indie resort. Ikon/Epic has to think how their pass holders will move around the country if one state is shut down and a neighboring state is not. Do they help transmit COVID by welcoming people to travel-spread? Locals also could be fighting COVID asylum seekers for reservations, if that ends up to be true. Fuck that.

I got a full pass and midweek pass at two different resorts, with refunds or a credit offered on both. And I dropped Ikon. I hope one of two will be open, but who knows. And if shit hits the fan I can just go BC, but the big problem with that is my wife and kids can't.

**bigdude2468** · 08-14-2020, 07:36 AM

So if I decide to be an early season snow maker they are not going to allow me to ski everyday?

**skifishbum** · 08-14-2020, 07:44 AM

i would not decide to be a snowmaker
and i wouldnt work at a resort unless i could use a lift to ski most every day to some degree
whats the point better money elsewhere

**Bunion 2020** · 08-14-2020, 07:54 AM

Reality is such a bitch.

Again just a guess but most ticketing systems these days can be set up to regulate how many passes can be in use and if it comes down to a choice between the ticket paying customer who is staying in lodging and eating in restaurants and the Ski Tuner/Snowmaker/Public Attendant for ski time, who do you think will get the nod?

With potentially limited operations every resort will need less employees.

**Benny Profane** · 08-14-2020, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by muted

Whoa, let's not go off the edge now.

It may suck this year to have a conglomerate pass with a CEO who can shut down multiple properties at once compared to an indie resort. Ikon/Epic has to think how their pass holders will move around the country if one state is shut down and a neighboring state is not. Do they help transmit COVID by welcoming people to travel-spread? Locals also could be fighting COVID asylum seekers for reservations, if that ends up to be true. Fuck that.

I got a full pass and midweek pass at two different resorts, with refunds or a credit offered on both. And I dropped Ikon. I hope one of two will be open, but who knows. And if shit hits the fan I can just go BC, but the big problem with that is my wife and kids can't.

The corporate CEOs didnt shut down skiing, governors did. And they'll do it again if the Dominoes fall. Moab shut down when all the skiing stopped, because they didnt want to be the present day Sturges back in March. People will invade the "small, local" ski area in droves if it's the only game in town. We all have cars, and many many have campers. There's even a thread for that.

**Benny Profane** · 08-14-2020, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

Reality is such a bitch.

Again just a guess but most ticketing systems these days can be set up to regulate how many passes can be in use and if it comes down to a choice between the ticket paying customer who is staying in lodging and eating in restaurants and the Ski Tuner/Snowmaker/Public Attendant for ski time, who do you think will get the nod?

With potentially limited operations every resort will need less employees.

Restaurants will be closed in winter and, would you sleep on a used mattress these days in a hotel?

**Bunion 2020** · 08-14-2020, 08:11 AM

Your predictions have as much weight as mine.

We will see in 5 months +-.

But, no, I don't like staying /sleeping on hotel bedding, even before Covid.

**Name Redacted** · 08-14-2020, 08:24 AM

Our local ski hill has already installed RFID scanner thingies so no more lifties with scanner guns. That cuts down on probably 10 employees a day. Still gotta bump chairs on some of the lifts though. We will see how that goes. Guessing all ticket sales will be online or through a kiosk.

Now that we know a little more about this virus and how it is transmitted, are we really that worried about it being transmitted around an outdoor lift line full of mask wearing skiers with persistent wind?

As far as lodging, our STRs have been busier than ever this summer, I doubt that changes in the winter as long as the resorts are open. People are going to want a nice clean place with a kitchen over a hotel room with a mini fridge I'm guessing.

**Benny Profane** · 08-14-2020, 08:31 AM

There's not enough of them, and they'll be too expensive if the inevitable price gouging occurs. But, the key there is the reservation systems most mountains, if spinning, will force us into. Who's going to travel far, or far enough to rent a bed and kitchen, with no guarantee of skiing the next day, or the day after...

**Name Redacted** · 08-14-2020, 08:37 AM

You'd be surprised how many people go on a ski vacation and only ski a few days.

**Bunion 2020** · 08-14-2020, 08:37 AM

Therein lies the problem.

Who is going to move to a ski town to help it operate without a way to ski when they want to?

**Benny Profane** · 08-14-2020, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Name Redacted

You'd be surprised how many people go on a ski vacation and only ski a few days.

Not at all. But, they ski when they want to, not when Lady Luck says they can.

The average gaper family is going to a warm place this winter, not skiing. The east will go down to the islands, maybe Florida, and the west to Arizona, or the brave will go to Hawaii. That is, if they still can.

**Benny Profane** · 08-14-2020, 08:50 AM

I know you all think I'm being Benny Bummer here, but I really think this Sucks. Sucks Sucks Sucks [Benny jumps up and down and stomps his feet}. Just sucks. But, when I read stuff like this: https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...t-follow-covid I see no way that lift served skiing can happen this year as we know it. We are in much worse shape as far as the magnitude of this virus spread right now compared to February, and even if a vaccine was approved today, we'd still be fucked at Xmas. And, that ain't happening.

**Name Redacted** · 08-14-2020, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

Therein lies the problem.

Who is going to move to a ski town to help it operate without a way to ski when they want to?

Very true. This ought to thin out the riff raff for sure but most places will be running on a skeleton crew anyway. How many warm bodies do ya need to run a chair lift? If restaurants are closed or at limited capacity, and most other services are limited at best, a ton of other stuff can be automated.

But do y'all think the entire season will be set in stone? I mean, a vaccine will come out, things will evolve, it won't just be set on day one for the entire season I don't think. If the governor sees that very little transmission is happening at ski areas, restrictions will probably be eased.

One thing is for sure, it'll be weird, but you know what HST says about what happens when things get weird right?