Is the 20/21 ski season over at resorts already?

**Toadman** · 10-29-2020, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by doebedoe

CO has generally had their shit together until the last month. Not sure what corner you thought were were about to turn. Our positivity rate until Oct was <3.5% for most of the summer and early fall.

You mis-read my post. I agreed they were doing well, and now they have turned the wrong corner. But no big deal. I have heard from a pretty reliable source that the COVID is going away. Or it's actually gone away.

**SoVT Joey** · 10-29-2020, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Toadman

You mis-read my post. I agreed they were doing well, and now they have turned the wrong corner. But no big deal. I have heard from a pretty reliable source that the COVID is going away. Or it's actually gone away.

5 day u turn

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**Peruvian** · 10-29-2020, 04:59 PM

Three lefts make a right.

**Hott Butt Mud** · 10-29-2020, 09:22 PM

Yep, it's over. Glimpse in to the future for most of the ski towns. This is Summit County Gov ammended order for tonight. Supposed to prevent an increase to Level 3, which would basically mean no ski resorts can't open. Summit only has like 1-2 weeks to prevent a Level 3 status.

https://www.summitcountyco.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=702

**fastfred** · 10-30-2020, 06:48 AM

none of the polticians and gov't scum have the balls to shut it all down again
they will keep posing talking out there ass and pretending to know better than everyone else
if they shut it down someone needs to start writing checks the millionaire governor prolly doesn't have a clue what it's like to not have money and a set of balls
ski season is on with lots of posturing and bullshit rules that will never be followed
the cops have been doing "courtesy" checks in the all the bars and resturants where does it go from there? people entering your home and counting people?
holloween will be a party like usual in summit just out in the woods and in private homes

**summit** · 10-30-2020, 07:33 AM

this is why we can't have nice things apparently

**uglymoney** · 10-30-2020, 07:39 AM

Story on NPR this morning about hospitals in the Intermountain west being nearly full and large urban hospitals are having trouble accepting critical patients from out of state.

What happens when ski areas don't have anywhere to send critically injured skiers?

Summit any insight?

University of Iowa hospitals said this morning they will now be postponing elective procedures again as needed due to lack of space.

What happens when you blow we blow an ACL and can't get it fixed? I know in my case no ACL means no job.

So tired of entitled Republicans blaming liberal politicians for this junk show. It isn't liberal politicians making people breathe on each other.

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**cat in january** · 10-30-2020, 07:46 AM

Wife tore her meniscus root in her knee in March at work. Had to wait until beginning of July for surgery. Seems we are headed that way again for non-emergency surgery.

**fastfred** · 10-30-2020, 07:55 AM

this should all be a reckoning of how unhealthy this country is but it's not

**summit** · 10-30-2020, 08:14 AM

What makes a now different from say, April, is that the economy is mostly open (people get sick or hurt doing normal things), elective surgeries are happening (hospitals can't draw on that staff to boost surge capacity), and are thus seeing average to above average non-COVID occupancy. An open economy also means hospitals staff are doing normal life things like normal people, and are prone to getting sick from community acquired infection because the community transmission rate now (probably) dwarfs that of the first surge. Hospitals are down staff from sick employees. So tack on extra COVID patients and the system is strained. All this means that whatever glorious physical capacity and surge plan might be in place is only as good as the ability to have staff.

If hospitals are continuously over capacity and understaffed, elective surgeries will start getting cancelled to unburden that patient load, release that staff, and reduce the large PPE consumption associated with surgery. Your ACL will wait a month or two. But what happens when there is no capability to add on urgent/emergent procedures? 3 femurs, 2 tibial plateaus, 2 medial malleolus, and humerus fracture patients from ski area X? My guess is if there is such a capacity crunch, then ski areas are ordered to shut because the urgent/emergent cases they generate cannot be handled by the system.

**yeahman** · 10-30-2020, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by uglymoney

What happens when you blow we blow an ACL and can't get it fixed? I know in my case no ACL means no job.

Good question. The place I got my ACL done was a separate ortho clinic with surgery facilities. I doubt they would take covid patients at a place like that. However, I'm not sure how common that is for an ortho clinic to have operating rooms. My daughter had her elbow surgery at the hospital, and I doubt that would be possible once they are at or over capacity.

I am definitely going to have to research this before making a final decision on whether to take a refund on our Big Sky passes. Basically, if there is no hospital capacity, I can't see any other option but going back into shutdown mode. You just can't have a functioning society without hospital space for emergencies.

**I Skied Bandini Mountain** · 10-30-2020, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

What makes a now different from say, April, is that the economy is mostly open (people get sick or hurt doing normal things), elective surgeries are happening (hospitals can't draw on that staff to boost surge capacity), and are thus seeing average to above average non-COVID occupancy. An open economy also means hospitals staff are doing normal life things like normal people, and are prone to getting sick from community acquired infection because the community transmission rate now (probably) dwarfs that of the first surge. Hospitals are down staff from sick employees. So tack on extra COVID patients and the system is strained. All this means that whatever glorious physical capacity and surge plan might be in place is only as good as the ability to have staff.

If hospitals are continuously over capacity and understaffed, elective surgeries will start getting cancelled. Your ACL will wait a month or two. But what happens when there is no capability to add on 3 femurs, 2 tibial plateaus, a medial malleolus, and a humerus fracture from ski area X? My guess is that ski areas are ordered to shut because the urgent/emergent cases they generate cannot be handled by the system.

If covid numbers are as such, ski areas will shut down because their staffing will be falling like flies.

**summit** · 10-30-2020, 08:26 AM

^yea "all the lifties had a drinking party in employee housing and are all on quarantine/isolation now," so chairs don't turn.

Originally Posted by yeahman

Good question. The place I got my ACL done was a separate ortho clinic with surgery facilities. I doubt they would take covid patients at a place like that. However, I'm not sure how common that is for an ortho clinic to have operating rooms. My daughter had her elbow surgery at the hospital, and I doubt that would be possible once they are at or over capacity.

I am definitely going to have to research this before making a final decision on whether to take a refund on our Big Sky passes. Basically, if there is no hospital capacity, I can't see any other option but going back into shutdown mode. You just can't have a functioning society without hospital space for emergencies.

Ortho practices either contract access to, or own, freestanding ambulatory surgery centers (ASC), and also have practice rights at hospitals' ORs.

If the whole health system is surged, that is when either the health system or the authorities (governor) orders elective procedures cancelled whether they are at an ASC or a hospital.

**SoVT Joey** · 10-30-2020, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by fastfred

this should all be a reckoning of how unhealthy this country is but it's not

That is the truth.

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**fastfred** · 10-30-2020, 09:55 AM

Staff was barely getting hrs at the surgery center and hospital here my cousin is a surgeon and he's barely working a buddy went in for elective surgery he says yes and they wanted to work on him the next day because they were so slow fucked up system when they start laying off hospital staff even though there are not enough ICU beds and too many flu patients

**Ottime** · 10-30-2020, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by yeahman

Good question. The place I got my ACL done was a separate ortho clinic with surgery facilities. I doubt they would take covid patients at a place like that. However, I'm not sure how common that is for an ortho clinic to have operating rooms. My daughter had her elbow surgery at the hospital, and I doubt that would be possible once they are at or over capacity.

I am definitely going to have to research this before making a final decision on whether to take a refund on our Big Sky passes. Basically, if there is no hospital capacity, I can't see any other option but going back into shutdown mode. You just can't have a functioning society without hospital space for emergencies.

We have an Ortho clinic with surgery around here. Paired with a maternity ward. Super low volume. My son was supposed to be born there, but there was no room at the inn. They asked her to keep it in for 12 hours until they discharged another patient. We went to the hospital and he was out in 4 hours.

My current insurance would not cover care at this facility. Only at the hospital. So, for many, it is insurance dependent.

Likely that faculty will also be closed for non emergency care if the hospitals do the same.

Glad I got my shoulder done three weeks ago.

**The AD** · 10-30-2020, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by fastfred

Staff was barely getting hrs at the surgery center and hospital here my cousin is a surgeon and he's barely working a buddy went in for elective surgery he says yes and they wanted to work on him the next day because they were so slow fucked up system when they start laying off hospital staff even though there are not enough ICU beds and too many flu patients

Could you at least make an attempt to use sentences? Hate to be the grammar police, but man, this run-on shit is tough to follow.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 10-30-2020, 11:23 AM

There is so much misinformation out there and in this thread. We never stopped doing urgent and emergent surgery in March and April. It was triaged but it got done.

An acl tear isn’t urgent or emergent, it’s entirely elective and it’s if you have to work you can use a hinged knee brace.

The inpatient systems feet stressed but the surgical services are sitting idle during shutdown. There isn’t a lot of crossover skill going from the or to the floors if you haven’t worked on the floor before or in a while. The tech staff doesn’t crossover at all.

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**summit** · 10-31-2020, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Tere isn’t a lot of crossover skill going from the or to the floors if you haven’t worked on the floor before or in a while. The tech staff doesn’t crossover at all.

Much of the elective cancellations had to do with exposure risk concerns and PPE availability and burn, inability to screen, etc. It was hard to justify the PPE burn of elective surgeries when people were re-wearing surgical masks day after day, using rain ponchos for iso gowns, and there weren't enough viral filters for the vents. There was no testing then either. Now there is. As far as exposure I personally don't think that test based screening preproc in quarantined asymptomatics made much sense when we had rates <100/100K, but now when we are seeing prevalence rates of 500+/100K well now it is reasonable... maybe....

In the first surge they stopped electives and then restricted activity that generates some of the urgent/emergent procs with stay at home. And that could happen again. I hope not. The current trajectory is disheartening.

As far as staff, yea you can make good use of people in some capacity. Other duties as assigned if part of a system, or temp labor pool rapidly trained if not. PACU RNs are easily reapplied to the inpatient world and anesthesia can help in the ICU. You can't use everyone for anything, but there are surge staffing models that were used to apply non-inpatient staff to lower acuity noncovid units (even a circulator can tech on a floor) and move the regular staff from those units to higher acuity or COVID units. There are many interesting ways to accomplish it with oversite, reduced documentation, etc. There's a ton of rapid refresher education out there, everything from "how to ICU for the hospitalist" to "how to RT for the street medic." Gotta do something when you need to open yet another ICU.

**MakersTeleMark** · 10-31-2020, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

^yea "all the lifties had a drinking party in employee housing and are all on quarantine/isolation now," so chairs don't turn.

Meh. Anyone can swing chairs, but if it gets to patrol, there goes the hill.

**telefreewasatch** · 10-31-2020, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

Meh. Anyone can swing chairs, but if it gets to patrol, there goes the hill.

Lift mechanics and electricians are the crux.
Only a few per resort.
Many hills have already implemented different top shacks for said personnel so they won't be exposed to lifties or patrol.

**EWG** · 10-31-2020, 04:36 PM

My outlook on ski season is getting more discouraging by the hour.

**Bunion 2020** · 10-31-2020, 04:53 PM

220/221 either way, if an outbreaks starts to burn through a resort staff things will get difficult real fast.

**heckacali** · 10-31-2020, 07:20 PM

Nobody wants to be exposed to lifties. :-)

**altacoup** · 10-31-2020, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by telefreewasatch

Lift mechanics and electricians are the crux.
Only a few per resort.
Many hills have already implemented different top shacks for said personnel so they won't be exposed to lifties or patrol.

Please explain this to management. Been trying all summer but they don’t seem to get it. There’s literally 8 of us versus 40+ patrollers and 40+ lifties approximately. We’re all important but I doubt any patroller/lifty is going to work on a 25k volt system to keep the resort open.

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