Bear shot by Homeowner Across Road- Thoughts on Justification

[Talisman]

And then the bears start to show up.

Where's my sammich?

[t-the-east]

You know who was a hell of a shot when it comes to shooting bear in the ass?

Chester "Chet" Ripley, that's who.

One of the few brave men who have conquered the old 96er, gristle and all. At least they threw in shirts and hats for the kids

[BmillsSkier]

One of the few brave men who have conquered the old 96er, gristle and all. At least they threw in shirts and hats for the kids

Fucking hero.

[Jax]

Heh. Here's another bear-in-window shot.

Juvenile bear playing spy while mamma bear hovers in the background. I tapped on the glass really hard and yelled "boo!" after I took the first pic to make sure he stayed scared of humans. He was for sure curious, and really checking me out. When I first noticed him, I was brushing my teeth and saw him in the reflection of my bathroom mirror. He was standing on hind legs sniffing my back door, and he was completely covering up any daylight, rather tall. Very healthy black (cinnamon) bears. Notice how big mom is in last pic, she is on left of pic while juvenile is almost out of view on the right. I didn't even notice momma bear until he ran up the hill. Zirkel Wilderness right out the back door, these guys are way different than the scrawny trash mongers in town.

[BCMtnHound]

Was in the woods establishing eco assessments for western Yew with the summer students. Bear shit all over the road up to the site. Didn't see more than dickie birds all day. So disappointed. Maybe tomorrow.

Local facebook is the local horn for bears in small town suburbia. But since I don't use FB notifications on the phone, I don't see neighbour Rick's post until hours later.
The COS have their office in our building. Traps are in the back compound. You really don't want to know how many backbear they destroy each fall. Worst part of their job. Griz they try and relocate, but there are just so many blackbear, and so little unclaimed territory, it just isn't worth it.

[BFD]

That might look a little moto in Coronado...But yeah, usually what happens is the shiteaters find the grizzlies and lead them right back to you as they're fleeing for their lives...

sometimes the bears are the shit eaters. Good thing we had it secured.

[highangle]

"Why do you keep your TP on your rifle?"
"Because to take a shit in peace, one must first prepare for war."

[Conundrum]

If we really didn’t want problems with wildlife, we’d quit building houses where they live. I get that “borders forest”, “amazing views”, and “experience solitude” are great real estate descriptors and tag lines. There’s going to be interaction if you live in the woods and if you live in their home, it’s tough to say your hands are clean even if you didn’t shoot the bear. Some people don’t like admitting that they don’t wash their hands enough.

Sorry about the situation.

[skisurfmirth]

I'll add some info . Our area is pretty wild though don't have a lot of bears coming through as it not great bear habitat for full time residence. Sometimes have a bear in woods for a month in spring and then in fall see some sign. Can see grizz tracks down by the river in fall. Have seen wolf and cougar on our property. If someone has lets say bees they are an idiot if they don't put up electric fence. Any livestock other than horses or cattle need a guardian dog as much for wolfs or cougars as for bears.

So my issue is the fact that they had baby goats and did not take adequate measures to protect them and to stop them from being an attractant. It is very possible that the CO would have put the bear down if had been called but usually need a bit more evidence that habituated. The fact that bear did not move off a fresh kill is somewhat common sense. Of course a bear is not going to move off. They were not in danger and took action to drive the bear off which resulted in the shooting. I don't know how close the bear was to the house but it could have been very close.

On the side issue of the chickens. We found out later that an other neighbour lost 22 chickens. Now that may be why the bear was becoming more aggressive around houses. This neighbour is pretty bad for putting up shittie structures.

Sounds like maybe you can help the goat owner be a better owner, with advice on better structures or getting cattle like you suggested. It sounds like he at least cares about what the neighbors think. The chicken owner sounds like the bigger issue. Blaeberry life!

[muted]

This pic is so god damn funny and awesome

[Conundrum]

Anyone else feel an urge to take it a treat and scratch it behind the ears?

[Conundrum]

I don’t have a solution. I don’t know DougW and am sure he’s a good dude but I got a vibe that he’s above the bear’s death and he might think the neighbor was in the wrong. His post came across as he was looking for a little support there.

I also felt his wife’s email was poorly timed and condescending. If the bear killer was my neighbor, I’d probably go talk to him and see how things are going. If he was shaken up, I’d try to support him. That could be traumatizing. If he was stoked, I’d think he was an asshole and avoid him. Not sure what I would do if he was in between those ends. I certainly wouldn’t send an email shrewdly pointing out how what he was doing was wrong right after he found out personally it was wrong keeping his goats that way. If it was a noticeable mistake, why didn’t anyone speak up prior to something bad happening if everyone knew keeping animals that way wasn’t a good idea.

My point was people always seem shocked that weird stuff happens on human wildlife interfaces. Then something happens that doesn’t end well for wildlife and everyone has an opinion on whose fault it is. I wish people would accept that people can generally live where they want to but there are outcomes they may not like when they do. People are also slow to offer a helping hand up front but quick to point mistakes after something goes wrong.

I don’t know the whole story and wasn’t there. Completely okay with saying sorry if my interpretation is off.

[Mr. Toad]

Our neighbor bears.





Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[highangle]

I don’t have a solution. I don’t know DougW and am sure he’s a good dude but I got a vibe that he’s above the bear’s death and the neighbor was in the wrong. I also felt his wife’s email was poorly timed and condescending. If the bear killer was my neighbor, I’d probably go talk to him and see how things are going. If he was shaken up, I’d try to support him. That could be traumatizing. If he was stoked, I’d think he was an asshole and avoid him. Not sure what I would do if he was in between those ends. I certainly wouldn’t send an email shrewdly pointing out how what he was doing was wrong right after he found out personally it was wrong keeping his goats that way. If it was a noticeable mistake, why didn’t anyone speak up prior to something bad happening if everyone knew keeping animals that way wasn’t a good idea.

My point was people always seem shocked that weird stuff happens on human wildlife interfaces. Then something happens that doesn’t end well for wildlife and everyone has an opinion on whose fault it is. I wish people would accept that people can generally live where they want to but there are outcomes they may not like when they do.

[Conundrum]

Why did you delete your post asking me a question after I answered it? Guess I should quote more often.

[Jax]

Our neighbor bears.

Awesome

[old goat]

Was it a black bear or grizzly?

It sounds like the bear was aggressive because the shooter was trying to drive him off. That doesn't mean the bear posed a threat to human life (assuming it was a black bear.) Let the Wildlife folks figure out what to do with it. To me it sounds like he shot the bear because it wouldn't go away, not in self defense. (Of course in Florida and other states you would be justified in shooting the bear based on Stand Your Ground laws--I assume they apply to bears and not just Black people.)

I'm with Doug and others who think the shooter was irresponsible in leaving the goat vulnerable. Anyone living in bear country is obligated to secure all possible attractants--including living attractants. A friend of mine found a good solution to be an Anatolian Shepherd. (The dog, not a Turkish immigrant.) They're bred to stay with flocks of sheep and kill any wolves that threaten them. They aren't much good as pets, though. They prefer the company of sheep to the company of people. (Like Benny.) My friend's dog kept the coyotes away from his horses.

I don't know how close the neighbors are but I don't like the idea of discharging firearms, including shotguns, in residential areas except in immediate self defense, which this was not.

[Mazderati]

The last pic with the bear standing against the house is like the final form in Altered Beast.

[Conundrum]

Was it a black bear or grizzly?

It sounds like the bear was aggressive because the shooter was trying to drive him off. That doesn't mean the bear posed a threat to human life (assuming it was a black bear.) Let the Wildlife folks figure out what to do with it. To me it sounds like he shot the bear because it wouldn't go away, not in self defense. (Of course in Florida and other states you would be justified in shooting the bear based on Stand Your Ground laws--I assume they apply to bears and not just Black people.)

I'm with Doug and others who think the shooter was irresponsible in leaving the goat vulnerable. Anyone living in bear country is obligated to secure all possible attractants--including living attractants.

I think the shooter was irresponsible. I think the chicken neighbor was irresponsible for both the chickens and for having an encounters nd not telling the neighbors. If neighbors were aware of the goat situation and said or did nothing prior, they are not free of blame. If the CO had no problems with the killing, maybe some rules need changing or folks should get used to more of this with the urban rural migration we’re going to see.

[old goat]

Son of a bitch, hence my comment on gnarly ass fines. And when with the dogs in the wild, I try really hard to give all wild life all the room in the world. I know my two would die defending me. I better start carrying bear spray when out in the wild.

Our Cocker and cockapoo chased a bear half way up the hill behind our house one night. One of our neighbors has coon hounds. They treed a bear in the neighborhood. Last we saw of that bear. Those dogs also treed a cougar. (The feline kind.)

[old goat]

People are fucking morons.

One of the 1st handouts I give on any job site I manage spells out very clearly in Engrish and Spanish. DO NOT LEAVE ANY FOOD WASTE ON THE JOB SITE, not for an hour and not overnight.

Fuckheads still throw their left over bologna samwich in the dumpsters.

And then the bears start to show up.

My dog has learned to associate construction sites with food scraps.

[dunfree]

I think the shooter was irresponsible. I think the chicken neighbor was irresponsible for both the chickens and for having an encounters nd not telling the neighbors. If neighbors were aware of the goat situation and said or did nothing prior, they are not free of blame. If the CO had no problems with the killing, maybe some rules need changing or folks should get used to more of this with the urban rural migration we’re going to see.

Is Idaho that different?

[DougW]

I don’t have a solution. I don’t know DougW and am sure he’s a good dude but I got a vibe that he’s above the bear’s death and he might think the neighbor was in the wrong. His post came across as he was looking for a little support there.

I also felt his wife’s email was poorly timed and condescending. If the bear killer was my neighbor, I’d probably go talk to him and see how things are going. If he was shaken up, I’d try to support him. That could be traumatizing. If he was stoked, I’d think he was an asshole and avoid him. Not sure what I would do if he was in between those ends. I certainly wouldn’t send an email shrewdly pointing out how what he was doing was wrong right after he found out personally it was wrong keeping his goats that way. If it was a noticeable mistake, why didn’t anyone speak up prior to something bad happening if everyone knew keeping animals that way wasn’t a good idea.

My point was people always seem shocked that weird stuff happens on human wildlife interfaces. Then something happens that doesn’t end well for wildlife and everyone has an opinion on whose fault it is. I wish people would accept that people can generally live where they want to but there are outcomes they may not like when they do. People are also slow to offer a helping hand up front but quick to point mistakes after something goes wrong.

I don’t know the whole story and wasn’t there. Completely okay with saying sorry if my interpretation is off.

Mostly true. While not a clear cut situation certainly, I posted without my view point in order not to bias the responses. I was interested in what they would be. I wasn't there so can only make assumptions based on the personality of the shooter guy. The only real fact I have was that we had no evidence that there was a problem black bear in area 100 m away. He's a bit bloodly minded and a bit of a FB warrior and will write long essays why he is in right. People give up as no one has that much time.

Certainly the owners of baby goats ( son and DIL) were in wrong as didn't take managing the protection of their pets seriously. Learned later that had bought electric fence but hadn't put it up yet. So really the procrastination may have caused situation. My problem with the shooter is that considering that the bear had a kill and wasn't going to move off without a rubber bullet, he persisted in trying to drive off even after first charge. Maybe didn't appreciate the kill issue and was carried away with the emotion of the moment. There was a moment in there after the first charge that the people could have moved inside but that is hindsight. I believe he is shaken up a bit and probably very embarrassed. Hence the email content taking no blame ( reasonable, lawful etc) and throwing shade at rest of neighborhood.

Wife's email. ( she sent only to him did not cc everyone on distribution) I guess I can see your point if you didn't understand that the shooter didn't own goats his son and DIL did. He replied to wife
" just for the record I strongly advised against keeping goats but people make their own decisions. Security has been beefed up with a powerful electric fence which ironically x (son) had bought a few days ago and was waiting to get home to install. One day too late I guess."
Yes she laid down guilt with the "You probably know this" which in all fairness he does not know as pretty much a recluse and has no connection to the area other than knowing people 3 houses in any direction.

As to" I wish people would accept that people can generally live where they want to but there are outcomes they may not like when they do. People are also slow to offer a helping hand up front but quick to point mistakes after something goes wrong."

That one is a tricky one. A helping hand is really going out and telling them to change their plans before or after they have done it. I didn't know that the other neighbour was doing the chicken thing again but know that their chicken area was a shit pit and was only good enough to keep chickens in not keep any thing out. Nice people, but don't plan very well and never over build. They originally thought they lost 20 chickens to ravens and only figured out the next night when the last 2 were taken that it was a bear do to damage. Kind of funny in a black way. Shitty for the chickens.

Lots of people make mistakes and really don't think about what they are getting into with animals in a wild area. Mrs DougW went through this kind of stuff as a kid so more real of an issue to her. I don't think anyone knew about the baby goats, but I'm pretty sure no one would have walked over and made an editorial comment on what a bad idea it was or list out all the animals that can eat said goats.

[DougW]

Sounds like maybe you can help the goat owner be a better owner, with advice on better structures or getting cattle like you suggested. It sounds like he at least cares about what the neighbors think. The chicken owner sounds like the bigger issue. Blaeberry life!

It was baby goats for kids so cattle not in cards . I'm sure now that event has occurred that a electric fort knox will be built. Your right on the other neighbour nothing is going to change them. By the way if you could not mention this story in town as well people will figure out the players and wife will be pissed a posted this much info.

[SB]