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  1. #901
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    Yup there’s only a handful of Rx days available here. Only done in April and May, and maybe eight days with acceptable weather. So USFS only burns 3500 acres per year on the 1.6 million acre Deschutes NF.

    IOW it will take approx. 400 years to treat the whole NF. (Cue Bob Marley)

    In the meantime, 60% of our local ranger district has burned by wildfire in the last 20 years. In the last two years we’ve had weeks of AQI = 500.
    On the plus side, not much left to burn between Jeff and Broken Top. Pretty amazing to watch the Green Ridge fire scar map get filled in over the last few seasons.

  2. #902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    The tourists’ ruckus is something to contend with when the Grand Canyon is smoked in from fires that are ‘let burn’ or Rx.
    They just reopened Yosemite after it had been closed for smoke.

  3. #903
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Environmental challenges to controlled burns and thinning aren't brought by environmental groups that know science, they're brought by NIMBYs who don't like the smoke and think the more trees the better. Of course the right likes to use big fires to blame environmentalists.
    Likely a bigger problem. Maybe the insurance companies could prod the NIMBYs, at least those who are owners, to care about wildfire likelihood and the "cabin becomes ash pile" hypothesis. And I get the mo trees mo betta idea. I felt that way too until I watched them get bigger and more numerous over a decade, becoming dense ladder fuels. Now I pull them up or crush 'em under my heel.

  4. #904
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    Likely a bigger problem. Maybe the insurance companies could prod the NIMBYs, at least those who are owners, to care about wildfire likelihood and the "cabin becomes ash pile" hypothesis. And I get the mo trees mo betta idea. I felt that way too until I watched them get bigger and more numerous over a decade, becoming dense ladder fuels. Now I pull them up or crush 'em under my heel.
    I was in the Black Hills a long time ago. A lot of the landscape was widely spaced very big trees with green grass as the understory. I gather a lot of the west was like that. Periodic fires took out the brush and seedlings, the grass came back quickly while the brush was taken out by the next fire, and every once in a while a big tree fell and created a light space and fertilized a seedling that grew fast enough to become fire resistant. It was a very beautiful landscape--like a park. I believe the native California grasses were green all summer too.

    so when I see a bunch of small trees choking the forest it looks ugly to me.

  5. #905
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    Cameron peak fire not looking good. I can't imagine what this fire wouldve have done without the snow we got earlier this month

  6. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    Cameron peak fire not looking good. I can't imagine what this fire wouldve have done without the snow we got earlier this month
    Is it blowing back up? Is that what I’m smelling in Denver today? The air quality is shit again

  7. #907
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    Glass fire looking really bad. Lots of homes and structures impacted or threatened. Fire went from 20 to 2500 acres today.


    Joe Vazquez (@joenewsman) Tweeted:
    The #glassfire has now just came roaring over the hill. This is right along Silverado Trail just north of Deer Park. https://t.co/2rtw0ka1R9 https://twitter.com/joenewsman/statu...812178945?s=20


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  8. #908
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    Glass fire (can't believe Getty already owns the image )


    Chateau Boswell Winery in St Helena up in flames









    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  9. #909
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    A good friend in Sonoma just texted this to me.
    Today could be hellish.
    No Rh recovery. Plus east wind.

  10. #910
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    Pot fields burning in Sonoma. Air smelled like weed this morning

    Edit: just went outside. smells like landfill garbage now.

  11. #911
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    chilling post from a fire info page I follow:



    Urgent!!! Please pray for Mike. He was home alone when a fast moving fire broke out by our house. Just heard from him and he is trapped in a meadow but alive. Cal Fire just moved them to the other side of the field. Fire is 100 yards away.

    Please pray for protection!! The smoke and heat are a very real threat.
    (House is gone, but it’s ok. We just need him out alive!)
    #ZoggFire

    UPDATE: Cal Fire is trying to lead them out. #WayMaker

    UPDATE: HE’S OUT!!! He is safe!!!! His sugars are low so they are trying to feed him. But he is safe!!
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  12. #912
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    wow... the Shady fire in Santa Rosa is crazy.








    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  13. #913
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    Smoke returns to the PNW Wednesday morning
    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #914
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Smoke returns to the PNW Wednesday morning
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Great. Today I finally felt like I'd recovered.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  15. #915
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    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  16. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Yep. Read any/every thing Stephen Pyne has written if you’re at all interested in the historical and social aspect of wildfire. The guy is observant and learned, and he nails it.

    He’s where I got my point of view that we're just going to have to learn to live with fire.

    No, it’s nonsense, to dismiss climate change, of course it plays a role as a performance enhancer. It is true, especially in the 19th century, there was a whole wave of huge mega fires, which often claimed many more lives than today. But at that time, the driving force was the new railroad lines, which opened up the land and triggered a wave of settlement, accompanied by the immense load of debris or slash left by land-clearing and logging. Sometimes more than 400 people died in a single fire. This phase continued into the 1930s. Since then, those conditions have passed and wildland fire fighting has been professionalized and expanded, and California is probably the world leader in this field. So, it looked like the problem was solved, but it wasn't. There are many reasons for this, including the fact that California’s wildfire season now lasts over a month longer than it did then.

  17. #917
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    Thx for that article Benny. I haven’t seen much discussion about modern power generation options that localize & reduce endless miles of power lines in the forests.

  18. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Thx for that article Benny. I haven’t seen much discussion about modern power generation options that localize & reduce endless miles of power lines in the forests.
    You mean like mini coal fired power plants? Some people have solar but it is not practical, or economical, for everyone to try to run their house exclusively on solar (at the moment). Endless miles of power lines in the forest are currently the most green option assuming people still want to run their microwaves and watch Netflix. You need power lines to get energy from major hydro projects to all those people who live out in the woods.

    The problem is people living in the woods. No amount of technological advancements will negate the effect of humans encroaching on wildlands.

  19. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    You mean like mini coal fired power plants? Some people have solar but it is not practical, or economical, for everyone to try to run their house exclusively on solar (at the moment). Endless miles of power lines in the forest are currently the most green option assuming people still want to run their microwaves and watch Netflix. You need power lines to get energy from major hydro projects to all those people who live out in the woods.

    The problem is people living in the woods. No amount of technological advancements will negate the effect of humans encroaching on wildlands.
    There are many large high-voltage power lines that feed into major population centers running through wooded, brushy, and grassland areas. It is a mistake to think that it's just "all those people that live out in the woods." Power sources are not always conveniently located near major metro areas.

  20. #920
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    Yes, but it is a lot more economically practical to manage the forest and brush around a power line coming from a Columbia River dam supplying energy to LA than it is to have to worry about a bunch of power lines supplying power to random homes throughout the western US forests. Major power lines run above wide swaths where all the trees and vegetation has been cleared. And if a fire does erupt from those lines supplying power to millions of Americans I say, oh well. But when a fire erupts providing power to a few people who want their isolated slice of heaven in the woods I wonder why we as society allow that person in the woods to endanger us all. If everyone lived in cities, wild fires would not be much of an issue.

  21. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    You mean like mini coal fired power plants? Some people have solar but it is not practical, or economical, for everyone to try to run their house exclusively on solar (at the moment). Endless miles of power lines in the forest are currently the most green option assuming people still want to run their microwaves and watch Netflix. You need power lines to get energy from major hydro projects to all those people who live out in the woods.

    The problem is people living in the woods. No amount of technological advancements will negate the effect of humans encroaching on wildlands.
    Stupid zones.

    https://wildfiretoday.com/2008/12/31/the-stupid-zone/

    But, it's the same issue with living right next to an ocean. Another stupid zone. A hundred years ago, nobody built entire communities right next to hurricane infested oceans unless they fished or shipped for a living, and even then they built in some sort of defense against God's wrath. Now the entire east coast of the United States is lined with trillions of real estate value just for leisure and pleasure. Then the same people whine about "climate change" when they inevitably get hit. No, stupid, you built in the wrong place.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  22. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Yes, but it is a lot more economically practical to manage the forest and brush around a power line coming from a Columbia River dam supplying energy to LA than it is to have to worry about a bunch of power lines supplying power to random homes throughout the western US forests. Major power lines run above wide swaths where all the trees and vegetation has been cleared. And if a fire does erupt from those lines supplying power to millions of Americans I say, oh well. But when a fire erupts providing power to a few people who want their isolated slice of heaven in the woods I wonder why we as society allow that person in the woods to endanger us all. If everyone lived in cities, wild fires would not be much of an issue.
    Both sce and pge are spending big bucks to raise the high voltage lines 15-30’ to get above the trees. They spend lots of money and have lots of crews cutting trees everywhere, too—and for major lines serving major cities, not scattered rural ranchettes. The power plants (e.g. Big Creek) were built a hundred years ago, so retrofitting the towers is risky and expensive, just as cutting trees along the corridors is. You might want to try walking the corridors around Shaver Lake before scoffing at the problem


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  23. #923
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    I'm not scoffing at the problem. I am pointing out the hypocrisy of people living in forest not because they have to for their job, but because they want to. As Benny points out, it is a stupid zone. Some cities are in stupid zones (New Orleans) but there is not much we can do about that now. But more and more people are moving into the forest and think they can be bailed out if everyone agrees that "climate change" is a problem. Climate change is caused by people moving into the woods.

  24. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    The Benny, nice read.
    " have another hit of sweet california sunshine"

  25. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    I'm not scoffing at the problem. I am pointing out the hypocrisy of people living in forest not because they have to for their job, but because they want to. As Benny points out, it is a stupid zone. Some cities are in stupid zones (New Orleans) but there is not much we can do about that now. But more and more people are moving into the forest and think they can be bailed out if everyone agrees that "climate change" is a problem. Climate change is caused by people moving into the woods.
    There's something in the human condition that just wants to block out the obvious dangers of living in dangerous places. San Francisco started building back immediately after the 06 earthquake, with no much regard for what would happen when the next one hits. Which it will. I just read a short article this morning about landslides in Nepal, and villages have been wiped out more than once in the same spot. Many people live on the slopes of active volcanoes, and even a big town in Washington State has the potential to be destroyed in hours today. The coast of New Jersey was hammered by Sandy, and we spend billions to build in the same stupid place. I'm pretty sure that the same people being burnt out in California will just build right back, as always.

    I know a lot scorn the old East, but, we have cities (besides Miami, which isn't really the East) built around safe harbors, it rains a lot, but not too much, no earthquakes, no tornadoes, and a fairly nice climate. It's why the East will always survive.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

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