The Official Argue About Where Upstate NY Is Thread

[Benny Profane]

Head upstate for your weed.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...nabis-00016488

[JimmyCarter]

Has this been referenced yet?
It lays out a defensible position and seems to have been published by the world renowned Geography department at SUNY Albany, who would know these things.
http://mumford.albany.edu/mumford/Up...geography.html

Upstate versus Downstate
If asked, residents of New York State would no doubt differ on exactly where downstate ends and upstate begins. It definitely does not include New York City or Long Island. But while most people know that Westchester County is not part of New York City, they would still associate it more with “the city” than with upstate New York. For purposes of this report, distinguishing between upstate and downstate requires a precise definition. Using counties as the building blocks, we have chosen to include all but 10 of the 62 counties in the state as upstate New York (see Map 1, below).

Upstate is the area north of New York City and its immediate suburban neighbors.

This definition eliminates New York City and its closest Northern suburban counties (Westchester, Rockland and Putnam), plus the two counties on Long Island, Nassau and Suffolk. Westchester shares a border with the Bronx, and the other two counties border Westchester. Admittedly, one could make a case for including Putnam in upstate but it is not part of any MSA or Micropolitan area other than the one that includes New York City.

Of the 62 counties in the state, 52 are in upstate according to this definition.

Metropolitan and Micropolitan New York State: Population Change and Race-Ethnic Diversity 2000-2010

Nancy Denton, Samantha Friedman and Nicole D'Anna

The population of New York State is dynamic and growing. According to the PL 94-171 Redistricting data from the 2010 Census, the apportionment population of New York State is 19,378,102. While that is an increase of 2.1 percent since 2000 and almost 8 percent since 1990, New York still lost two seats in the U.S. House of Representatives because other states gained more residents (http://2010.census.gov/news/pdf/apport2010_map1.pdf)1. New York's population increase was well below the 9.7 percent increase for the country as a whole, but greater than that in Michigan (-0.6%), Rhode Island (0.4%), Louisiana (1.4%) and Ohio (1.6%). It was also the lowest of all the bordering states: Vermont (2.8%), Massachusetts (3.1%), Connecticut (4.9%), New Jersey (4.5%), and Pennsylvania (3.4%)2.
But how changes in the population are distributed across the state is less well known. While many people might suspect (correctly) that it is the downstate population that is growing the fastest, that does not necessarily mean that the upstate population is not changing at all. But how is it changing? Is the diversity of the population by race and ethnicity growing throughout the state, or only in the greater New York City area? This report will document population changes for the state as a whole, as well as for upstate and downstate, and also examine the diversity of the population.
In addition, the report will look at population changes for the Metropolitan and Micropolitan areas in the state. These areas are shown on the maps accompanying this report and will be defined in more detail below. The focus on these areas is important because these are new core-based definitions with which many people are unfamiliar. Because all of the data from the Census Bureau are now being released in these new geographic boundaries, including data from the 2010 Census, one of the main goals of this report is to facilitate people's understanding of them. Another major change that has occurred in the release of population data from the Census Bureau is that the long form of the decennial census has been replaced by the American Community Survey (ACS), which is released annually and is available for many areas of the state from here on out. So we will provide a brief overview of how ACS data are released and for which areas below.
Examining population change in New York State is important for a number of reasons: first, the residents of the state are interested in how their overall population is changing, as well as whether it is increasing or decreasing in racial and ethnic diversity. Second, New York State is one of the main gateway states for post-1965 immigrants. While most of these immigrants go to New York City and its surrounding communities, some also go to the other areas of the state, either as a secondary move or as a place of initial settlement. Knowing how immigrants and other racial minorities are dispersing across places that are "gateway states but not gateway cities" is important for our understanding of the process of population change in the nation as a whole, as well as in other gateway states such as California, Illinois, Florida and Texas. Though we will not focus on immigrants in this report, changes in racial/ethnic groups are very often linked to immigration. Third, an understanding of the geography that will be used to analyze the state's data in the coming years is important to policy makers and citizens alike.
Upstate versus Downstate
If asked, residents of New York State would no doubt differ on exactly where downstate ends and upstate begins. It definitely does not include New York City or Long Island. But while most people know that Westchester County is not part of New York City, they would still associate it more with “the city” than with upstate New York. For purposes of this report, distinguishing between upstate and downstate requires a precise definition. Using counties as the building blocks, we have chosen to include all but 10 of the 62 counties in the state as upstate New York (see Map 1, below).

Upstate is the area north of New York City and its immediate suburban neighbors.

This definition eliminates New York City and its closest Northern suburban counties (Westchester, Rockland and Putnam), plus the two counties on Long Island, Nassau and Suffolk. Westchester shares a border with the Bronx, and the other two counties border Westchester. Admittedly, one could make a case for including Putnam in upstate but it is not part of any MSA or Micropolitan area other than the one that includes New York City.

Of the 62 counties in the state, 52 are in upstate according to this definition.

Because the counties included in the New York City Metropolitan Statistical Area are all classified as metropolitan, upstate includes all the Micropolitan Counties of New York State, as well as a number of Metropolitan areas. In the past, two upstate Metropolitan areas were part of the larger New York Consolidated Metropolitan Region: Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown (Dutchess and Orange Counties) and Kingston (Ulster County) but that is no longer the case. While at one time they technically met the criteria for inclusion within the New York metropolitan area, they include substantial numbers of people who have very limited connections to New York City in terms of occupations or history. Having defined upstate and downstate counties, we turn now to a discussion of the Metropolitan and Micropolitan areas in the state


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[gravitylover]

What they miss is the mindset and cultural aspects that we've defined here in this thread.

I'm going to go check out at least one of the weed stores when I'm out that way tomorrow and Tuesday, not the ones in Salamanca but there's one in Seneca Falls that's close to where I need to be anyway.

[Benny Profane]

L.I. looks like NY's dick.

[riser4]

I'll happily accept any definition that wipes the smug off the faces of the folks in western NY. Western NY is upstate.

[ticketchecker]

I'll happily accept any definition that wipes the smug off the faces of the folks in western NY. Western NY is upstate.

It’s both


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[Brownski]

L.I. looks like NY's dick.

It acts that way too

[ticketchecker]

It acts that way too

I member freshman year at Suny Oswego and meeting people from 'the island', I was like I'm familiar with the 1,000 islands so what the fuck is with Long Island being 'the island'

[riser4]

It’s both


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Yes. Tell that to the people in this thread who believe it is not upstate.

[heckacali]

I'm OK with the SUNY Albany map.
I think it's a bit generous to weakchester, Putnam and Rockland though.

[huckbucket]

Yes. Tell that to the people in this thread who believe it is not upstate.

You take that shit back. Tell you what ... happy to be lumped in with ADK, but you guys can have Albany south to the city.

[gravitylover]

There's no way Putnam isn't upstate. No Way. The redness is overwhelming and the utter lack of cultural diversity proves it.

[riser4]

You take that shit back. Tell you what ... happy to be lumped in with ADK, but you guys can have Albany south to the city.

Give North Country a pass and then WNY gets a pass, not a moment sooner.

[huckbucket]

Give North Country a pass and then WNY gets a pass, not a moment sooner.

ADK is the best part of living in NY, so sure ... sound like we have a deal. Blood or spit?

[Benny Profane]

There's no way Putnam isn't upstate. No Way. The redness is overwhelming and the utter lack of cultural diversity proves it.

Can we settle on grey areas then? Why the strict boundaries?

I agree. I get a distinct Trumpian vibe from your hood.

[riser4]

ADK is the best part of living in NY, so sure ... sound like we have a deal. Blood or spit?

Uitca Club.

[gravitylover]

Can we settle on grey areas then? Why the strict boundaries?

I agree. I get a distinct Trumpian vibe from your hood.

There are grey areas but the general theory of Rt 6 as a boundary, especially east of the River, is pretty accurate.

[Benny Profane]

I still stick to commuter train reach.

[hatchgreenchile]

I've lost track of all the proposed boundaries, but one thing is obvious. No one wants to be on Team Downstate!
I've gone full circle and still like I-84 at the most conservative boundary, but could push it as far north as the Catskills or Gunks.

[Hopeless Sinner]

I've lost track of all the proposed boundaries, but one thing is obvious. No one wants to be on Team Downstate!
I've gone full circle and still like I-84 at the most conservative boundary, but could push it as far north as the Catskills or Gunks.

I was on the downstate team. Westchester. My town was upstate AF prob till 1980, and "nice" till about 2010. Then Brooklyn and the Upper East Side arrived, en masse.

Putnam County is a mixed bag, Mahopac-----yuck. I'd say it's upstate w a few more $$ than the "real" upstate.

[gravitylover]

Yup we almost went suburban but useful pickups and blue tarps won. This is where all the cars in the NY Metro that can't pass emissions testing end up.

[ticketchecker]

It’s awesome how much arguing about where upstate is can still be done


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[Aldo]

What they miss is the mindset and cultural aspects that we've defined here in this thread.

Here’s a quick exercise for the group.
What’s wrong with this picture?

[MakersTeleMark]

There are 2 left.

[heckacali]

Broken delaming cooler, blue tarp present and UCs look like they've been in there since first snow.

None of that is " wrong" though.