Cush Core, have it? want it? used it?

[Roxtar]

But you don't get sidewall support with Huck Norris, right? Not a big deal with heavier casing tires I guess.

What kind of "support" are you looking for?
Tire with air in it gives the sidewall all the "support" it needs, in my experience.
I use standard casings, Maxxis EXO, Schwalbe Snakeskin, etc. I don't use the HD, DH, or DD heavy duty sidewalls and I finish enduro stages with tires intact.

[Toddball]

What kind of "support" are you looking for?
Tire with air in it gives the sidewall all the "support" it needs, in my experience.
I use standard casings, Maxxis EXO, Schwalbe Snakeskin, etc. I don't use the HD, DH, or DD heavy duty sidewalls and I finish enduro stages with tires intact.

I just mean that with CushCore you can run 15 psi in your front tire and not rip it off the rim whilst cornering, because the insert prevents the tire from rolling. I'm not advocating for super-low pressure, just trying to understand different tire inserts.

[toast2266]

I think the sidewall support thing varies a lot with the trails you ride.

In sandier locations that don't have much for on camber corners, I don't find that I can corner all that hard - the tire breaks traction before I can fold the sidewall over, even at relatively low pressures. But in places that have well shaped, built up berms on lots of corners, I need real sidewall support or I'll rip the tire off the rim in the first couple turns.

That's all completely independent of flat protection, although setups with better flat protection also tend to provide more sidewall support.

[grabtindy]

I'm running cushcore front and rear on my hardtail. I find it helps me get away with larger tires than my rims would normally handle. I have Nobl rims with 27mm internal width and with CC I can run 2.5" WT tires at 19-22psi with no folding. THe sidewall support is noticeable for sure and I can get away with exo tires despite having gone through a few double-downs on my enduro bike without cushcore.

I'm sure I pay a weight/acceleration penalty, but I'm not racing and I love how it makes the bike handle. I've also cased the ever loving fuck out of the rear and other than a broken spoke things were fine, pretty sure it would have cracked the rim if not protected.

[beeeom]

Riding a 2019 Trek session 9.9. Running a DH casing minion DHF + cush core in the rear and a DH casing Assegai and a Huck Norris DH in the front. Tried cush core in the front but it was heavy and sluggish... Lots of rotational momentum. I prefer a more nimble front end. Had to run super low psi (16-18) ito realize the benefits of the front cush core and at that point I felt like a fat slug.

In summary it's great in the back but too heavy damp and sluggish up front

[Roxtar]

Riding a 2019 Trek session 9.9. Running a DH casing minion DHF + cush core in the rear and a DH casing Assegai and a Huck Norris DH in the front. Tried cush core in the front but it was heavy and sluggish... Lots of rotational momentum. I prefer a more nimble front end. Had to run super low psi (16-18) ito realize the benefits of the front cush core and at that point I felt like a fat slug.

In summary it's great in the back but too heavy damp and sluggish up front

That's something that I don't understand. Why would you want to run that low an air pressure? Any time I dip under 21lbs or so it feels like I'm cornering on wet noodles and everything rolls twice as slow. Tires are designed to keep their shape (mostly) when leaned over. That's why the side lugs angle out.

[SJG]

I have run Huck Norris, Cush Core, and Vittoria Air Liners.

First off, you run low pressure so you have more traction at low speeds. I run around 15lbs in front and 17 in rear on 2.5/2.4" tires, I'm 190lbs and ride LCC (almost exclusively low speed tech). Side benefit of some liners is sidewall support for high speed cornering, and/or rim protection. I rarely exceed 15mph on a LCC lap, only rallying down the gravel double track in Albion Basin, to access more single track.

Huck Norris is cheap, light, and offers rim protection only. The protection is better than nothing, but not as good as the other 2. It takes under a minute to install over a normal tire change, EZ. When I removed mine I could see the dozens of spots where the foam was compressed by a rock shot.

Cush Core is the standard most are compared to. It's heavy, offers good protection against rim strikes, and offers a lot of sidewall support. The park rats love Cush Core. Makes the tire installation a SOB, total PITA.

Vittoria Air Liner is fairly light (lighter than CC, heavier than Huck Norris), offers the best protection against rim strikes, but only limited sidewall support. You can ride a tire with 0 air pressure with an Air Liner in the tire, it just feels a little slow, if you were to get a hole which you can't repair or won't seal. So no need to carry a tube either. Tire installation is harder, but not as bad as CC.

[Roxtar]

I have run Huck Norris, Cush Core, and Vittoria Air Liners.

First off, you run low pressure so you have more traction at low speeds. I run around 15lbs in front and 17 in rear on 2.5/2.4" tires, I'm 190lbs and ride LCC (almost exclusively low speed tech). Side benefit of some liners is sidewall support for high speed cornering, and/or rim protection. I rarely exceed 15mph on a LCC lap, only rallying down the gravel double track in Albion Basin, to access more single track.

Huck Norris is cheap, light, and offers rim protection only. The protection is better than nothing, but not as good as the other 2. It takes under a minute to install over a normal tire change, EZ. When I removed mine I could see the dozens of spots where the foam was compressed by a rock shot.

Cush Core is the standard most are compared to. It's heavy, offers good protection against rim strikes, and offers a lot of sidewall support. The park rats love Cush Core. Makes the tire installation a SOB, total PITA.

Vittoria Air Liner is fairly light (lighter than CC, heavier than Huck Norris), offers the best protection against rim strikes, but only limited sidewall support. You can ride a tire with 0 air pressure with an Air Liner in the tire, it just feels a little slow, if you were to get a hole which you can't repair or won't seal. So no need to carry a tube either. Tire installation is harder, but not as bad as CC.

Nice breakdown and exactly the kind of beta that's needed.
Thanks

[SkiLyft]

^ nice break down. Pondering adding one of these systems but seems you add protection at the cost of weight. I like the rear tire only idea. What kind of weight gain are we talking for a 29er?


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[simple]

250 grams. I run rear only. With their new tool I can get a cush core on and off about a quick as possible. No more garbage can. No more compressor.

[SJG]

I forgot to mention the Huck Norris weight is under 90g. It's worth it if you are not a gorilla (and need one of the heavier duty units).

Like others I only run it in the rear.

Vittoria is ~190g.

[westoxified]

i run cush core front and rear on both the 2.8 hardtail (19/20) and the 2.5 full sus (24/26) without any change to tire pressure. anytime i try the front without one, i immediately regret the decision.

suspension benefit as much as grip/protection benefit. the reduction in air volume is a huge advantage.

weight the front with more confidence and better tracking entering sloppy corners because of less deflection and more grip.

for that reason, i am even thinking of putting one just in the front of the gravel bike (it's seeing way more use these covid-crazy days).

huge consideration though: do not go to weaker tires to try to offset the weight. a sidewall tear means limping out riding the cushcore as you are never going to want to attempt a trailside repair.

[Andeh]

Not enough experience running it yet to offer broad opinion, but I will say that I just installed a Cushcore XC, rear only, and the installation was nowhere near as difficult as I was lead to believe. With the new lever, Maxxis EXO tire, and a 30mm carbon rim, the total time it took me to remove & clean the old tire, install new valve stem, install the liner, mount up new tire, air it up, and add sealant was probably only about 20 minutes. At no point did I feel like I was stuck fighting a step. The XC version is only like 150g, so adding it to an EXO Dissector gives you a weight barely more than an EXO DHR, with a ride quality (dampness, sidewall stability) more in line with an Assegai or a DD DHR.

[robnow]

SJG, nice synopsis and I guess you’re implying you like Vittoria as the best compromise? Have you thought about trying the XC CC as Andeh has pointed out? Anybody that has tried the XC route seems to think it’s a great compromise but 2.4 is the max width and any bigger the liner is too loose.

I have both the Vittoria (nobody can be convinced to try it) and CC (XC and regular) in the shop so trying to decide what to experiment with. Tire shortage is becoming a serious situation in Canada presently as any DDs are done with an ETA of a few months time from now for more so everyone’s being forced to run EXO+.


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[grinch]

I hear good things about the vittoria liners. Ive been using a similar design with the nukeproof. Curious to see how it looks after i change my tire soon. I think the vittoria is a bit better though. Vittoria takes up slightly more volume and is a little less stiff and it has a nice center channel for the valve air flow. Sounds like the vittoria liner is the liner equivalent to the mich rockr2. Seems like michelin have good stock from the can distributor. I was able to get the new dh34 in a dh casing pretty quick. The dh 34 and dh22 both have a "bike park" casing option as well. I think its similar weight as a maxxis dd and the rockr2. Rockr2 is 2.35 and dh 34 is 2.4 and theyre both exactly the same width as a dhr2 2.4 , after inflating and checking . The dh22 is 2.4 and slightly wider than the dhr 2.4(i didnt check it against a dhf 2.5). Dh22 looks sloghtly assegai esque. Ive yet to try the dh34(waiting for a wheel) but i think i still like the edge knobs on the rockr2. Theyre tighter spacing gives great support in the corners. Dh34 looks close though, just wanted some full dh casing tires for the eeb on boulder. I can lower the psi a touch for traction on the steeps and still push in the higher speed corners on the higher speed lower trails.
I think ill put the new huck norris in the front of the dh wheels(nukeproof liner rear) and the rear of the ligher 29er wheels(no liner front w rockr2). The huck norris , or liners in general, pay their way pretty quick. The huck norris lasts atleast as long as a tire change and its both saved the rims and saved the tires until the tread has worn out. I've had zero issues a few years running now. Shout out to dt swiss rims too. Im impressed. Theyve been taking a beating on the heavy eeb and are still in perfect shape. The hybrid1900 wheels, whatever rim that is?

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[bagtagley]

Huck is okay, but gets beat up fast and I still got occasional flats and killed a carbon wheel with Huck.

Rimpact is still pretty light, cheap, and protects better while allowing a little bit lower pressure than Huck. Can’t compare to anything else. Does CC get chewed up over time? Rimpact is much more durable than Huck, but still has some bite marks.

[HAB]

Huck is okay, but gets beat up fast and I still got occasional flats and killed a carbon wheel with Huck.

Rimpact is still pretty light, cheap, and protects better while allowing a little bit lower pressure than Huck. Can’t compare to anything else. Does CC get chewed up over time? Rimpact is much more durable than Huck, but still has some bite marks.

Cush Core isn't bulletproof, but it holds up vastly better than Huck Norris. Haven't tried Rimpact.

[grinch]

Have to check out rimpact. I definitely wouldnt compare huck to cc. Different application for me. Huck is the "add minimal weight" "not adjusting psi much" "safe keep" . If i dont push my psi lower it saves the rim and the tire from pinch flatting. Cheap alternative that allows a fresh one on the xc rear or dh front wheels. Cc is the real performance booster. Nukeproof has been good, probably somewhere in the middle of a huck and a cc , in weight,price, performance. I think the vittoria might add a touch of performance over the nukeproof. A bit of theorizing there as i havent tried the cc or vittoria

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[jm2e]

Here’s a question: why do they still sell ProCore?


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[simple]

Oops thought you meant cush core Pro

Schwalbe Procore is a good product. I use the moto version. But like mousse the foam products are great but have their own disadvantages.

Procore is expensive but not heavy.

[grinch]

Good question. Shop tried to sell that shite to a bud at $200+. He lol'd

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[jm2e]

Oops thought you meant cush core Pro

Schwalbe Procore is a good product. I use the moto version. But like mousse the foam products are great but have their own disadvantages.

Procore is expensive but not heavy.

Approx 1lb per pair.


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[meter-man]

SJG thanks for the awesome review. On that basis and some follow-up research, just ordered some Vittoria Air Liners. They're 25+% off at many retailers right now. Seems like a great Goldilocks betwen HN and CC.

[simple]

Approx 1lb per pair.


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Can confirm. Weighed a set. 1 lb on the nose.

[Pauldotcom]

I've seen carbon rims break (2 from me in the last 2 weeks) without it (some bad luck on my part and shitty lines), and I've seen carbon rims break (1 this week my friends) with it.

There are wheel manufactures that will VOID warranty if used with CC. Just run proper pressures and you are good.