BLM Proposed E-Bike Rule

[goldenboy]

Is it bad that I want an ebike to get park laps when the lifts aren't running?

No, although I think most parks don't allow e-bikes. But you definitely score like a million points for e-biking instead of shuttling something. I'd much rather see an e-bike on local trails like 401 or Doctor's where they aren't allowed than a truck shuttling the road.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

If they have no effect on what you do on a bike why do you care? Further more why do you have to make up complete shit? You're all just flexing. Funny thing is most of you cant even flex. Its funny
Clueless gone b clueless. Carry on

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Again, you seem to be the one who is clueless. It’s not about you and how you ride it’s about opening up non motorized trails to motorized users.

I have no problem with multi use trails that are legal for motorized use seeing an increase in traffic from ebikes. Keep them off non motorized trails.

I could ride a dirt bike on non motorized trails without causing damage and creating safety concerns. Most people don’t ride that way though. Same goes for the ebike user group.

It’s funny that you would resort to insults about people that don’t agree with you, that’s usually the action of someone who has no good argument.

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[grinch]

Again, ive based my opinions with facts. Youre just making shit up based on your feelings, hence clueless. You want to opine based on ignorance, got it.
Youve glazed over all my answers based on direct experience for your feelings based hyperbole. Youve also ignored the poster that said you need numbers to fight trail closures and ignored the fact that there is massive emtb growth happening. Why is it that you think there will only be unmanageable dangers only in the US when its been proven elsewhere,throughout the world, they're quite manageable on existing mtb trails?
More facts:
1)The overwhelming majority of current eebers are from mtb and know how trail interactions work.A small percentage of this group is the all out at no cost racer and will cause problems
2)the 2nd biggest group are moto or x moto guys that dont want to load/unload their moto and drive a distance but are aware of how trail interaction works
3) the 3rd biggest group are the newbs. Most are going slow af and will learn how "share the trail" works. There is a percentage of this group that is young and still athletic and will break rules
Demographics matter. The overwhelming majority wont be bothering anyone. Its the small percentage, much like it is currently. More participation in cycling in general causes the friction. Thats life in general. Maybe you should advocate for birth control

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[summit]

No, although I think most parks don't allow e-bikes. But you definitely score like a million points for e-biking instead of shuttling something. I'd much rather see an e-bike on local trails like 401 or Doctor's where they aren't allowed than a truck shuttling the road.

good point

[skysos]

This back and forth about definitions of "motorized", "mopeds", "bicycle", etc. happen in each and every e-bike trail access thread I've ever seen. In the end it's the land managers making the decisions based on direction from above and a very small amount of input from the public that may or may not have an effect on the process. I've been involved in e-bike trail advocacy and I've seen how it works.

Arguing about what might happen and what e-bikes are doesn't make a damn bit of difference. The evidence in places that allow e-bikes on non-motorized trails, like in Santa Clara County in California is that there is little conflict caused by e-bikes. You can make up "worst case" scenarios all day, but there is no evidence that any of that actually happens.

E-mtn bikes are here to stay. Bike shops can't keep them in stock because of the huge demand so you are going to be seeing more of them everywhere -- rules or not. It's up to at least 25% in Tahoe on NFS trails and every year it increases. Life goes on and people continue to have fun on 2 wheels.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Again, ive based my opinions with facts. Youre just making shit up based on your feelings, hence clueless. You want to opine based on ignorance, got it.
Youve glazed over all my answers based on direct experience for your feelings based hyperbole. Youve also ignored the poster that said you need numbers to fight trail closures and ignored the fact that there is massive emtb growth happening. Why is it that you think there will only be unmanageable dangers only in the US when its been proven elsewhere,throughout the world, they're quite manageable on existing mtb trails?
More facts:
1)The overwhelming majority of current eebers are from mtb and know how trail interactions work.A small percentage of this group is the all out at no cost racer and will cause problems
2)the 2nd biggest group are moto or x moto guys that dont want to load/unload their moto and drive a distance but are aware of how trail interaction works
3) the 3rd biggest group are the newbs. Most are going slow af and will learn how "share the trail" works. There is a percentage of this group that is young and still athletic and will break rules
Demographics matter. The overwhelming majority wont be bothering anyone. Its the small percentage, much like it is currently. More participation in cycling in general causes the friction. Thats life in general. Maybe you should advocate for birth control

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Your three facts aren’t facts, they’re opinions.

Here’s more opinion.
1) In my experience most current mtbers are clueless or don’t care about decades old established trail etiquette.

2) Moto x riders want to ride trails that they can’t with their motos. They will use e bikes and ride too fast and in a manner that damages trails.

3) Newbs are clueless about trail etiquette and responsible riding habits, no skidding, cutting corners etc. They can learn but based on experience, see above observation about current mtbers, they probably won’t.

Again this isn’t really about you and your imaginary good steward e bikers, it’s about not opening up non motorized trails to motorized use.

You’ve stated that you don’t really use your e assist that often, except for the “hard” parts. Why not just ride an “acoustic” bike(stupid term)? Are you unable to flex anymore like the people you deride?

Your hostility is clearly based on your emotional investment in e bikes and you’re seeking validation for your subconscious conflict when it comes to this issue.


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[Core Shot]

Ok. I read the whole thread and can’t understand why Black Lives Matter is against e bikes.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It’s because their cheerleader is a grinch.


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[frorider]

It’s been said before but lotsa of dirt moped rides rock 3.0 tires and impact per mile on most soils ain’t much different than me on my 2.5s. But as they’ll tell ya, they ride 3x as far as they would normally, so higher impact in that sense.

People pointing out that already in some regions 20% or more riders on USFS trails are dirty e-bikers are missing the point. Sierra Club loves that stat since it proves mtbers can’t obey ebike closures and therefore there is no way in hell mtn bikers will ever get access to cool ass existing trails like PCT.

I’m not a bikepacker but it would’ve been cool if bikepackers and hikers (the younger ones at least) could’ve agreed on shared trail access in the true backcountry. Ebikes have ended any chance of that happening. Sierra Clubbers Rejoice.

[Name Redacted]

No, although I think most parks don't allow e-bikes. But you definitely score like a million points for e-biking instead of shuttling something. I'd much rather see an e-bike on local trails like 401 or Doctor's where they aren't allowed than a truck shuttling the road.

I thought the same exact thing about those same two rides in particular. Why should EBikes be banned, especially when their motor would only be used on the uphill, which is an already heavily traveled road? In fact, I feel like Ebikers should be encouraged to ride those kind of trails specifically.
Same at the resort/bike park, charge them a nominal fee to climb the service road then descend on trails. You could probably make a pretty fun uphill flow trail designed specifically for pedal assist bikes.

[Name Redacted]

It’s been said before but lotsa of dirt moped rides rock 3.0 tires and impact per mile on most soils ain’t much different than me on my 2.5s. But as they’ll tell ya, they ride 3x as far as they would normally, so higher impact in that sense.

Same could be argued for mountain bike races, of which I'm not really a fan of. I've seen a few major races put sometimes up to 400+ riders out on the trail on a rainy day. You want to talk trail damage? That's more traffic than some trails see in a season all in one day.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Same could be argued for mountain bike races, of which I'm not really a fan of. I've seen a few major races put sometimes up to 400+ riders out on the trail on a rainy day. You want to talk trail damage? That's more traffic than some trails see in a season all in one day.

I don’t think there should be races on public lands.


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[SB]

TGR gonna TGR

[frorider]

Same could be argued for mountain bike races, of which I'm not really a fan of. I've seen a few major races put sometimes up to 400+ riders out on the trail on a rainy day. You want to talk trail damage? That's more traffic than some trails see in a season all in one day.

Agree. But you probably knew that.

[climberevan]

People pointing out that already in some regions 20% or more riders on USFS trails are dirty e-bikers are missing the point. Sierra Club loves that stat since it proves mtbers can’t obey ebike closures and therefore there is no way in hell mtn bikers will ever get access to cool ass existing trails like PCT.

I’m not a bikepacker but it would’ve been cool if bikepackers and hikers (the younger ones at least) could’ve agreed on shared trail access in the true backcountry. Ebikes have ended any chance of that happening. Sierra Clubbers Rejoice.

This is the core argument against mopeds on non-motorized trails. The fact that there are already many scofflaws doesn't mean that we should change the laws--perhaps we should consider enforcing them. Further disregard of the existing regulations will only result in more regulations!

I mean, we have won access for bikes on so many trails already--why can't we just enjoy that without jeopardizing that progress by riding mopeds on those trails illegally?

[toast2266]

I don’t think there should be races on public lands.

Soooo basically, there shouldn't be races?

I can think of maybe a small handful of races I've ever done that weren't at least partially on public land.

[grinch]

Your three facts aren’t facts, they’re opinions.

Here’s more opinion.
1) In my experience most current mtbers are clueless or don’t care about decades old established trail etiquette.

2) Moto x riders want to ride trails that they can’t with their motos. They will use e bikes and ride too fast and in a manner that damages trails.

3) Newbs are clueless about trail etiquette and responsible riding habits, no skidding, cutting corners etc. They can learn but based on experience, see above observation about current mtbers, they probably won’t.

Again this isn’t really about you and your imaginary good steward e bikers, it’s about not opening up non motorized trails to motorized use.

You’ve stated that you don’t really use your e assist that often, except for the “hard” parts. Why not just ride an “acoustic” bike(stupid term)? Are you unable to flex anymore like the people you deride?

Your hostility is clearly based on your emotional investment in e bikes and you’re seeking validation for your subconscious conflict when it comes to this issue.


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So much wrong. You are consistent though.

1) millenials(most current mtbers) may be aloof but they generally know how to get around the trails and judge speed so incidents are contained

2)moto riders are friendly to meet on the trails. Their speed will have little difference. There is a learning curve and in the end you have to conserve battery power

3)we all started as newbs. Way to be elitist bro. I challenge you to make it around our trails without a skid or 30

Of course its not about me but i thought i should supply a real life example, unlike yourself. In my "cool story" you could put any emtber i know in my place and they would act similar and also be in a legal place to ride but who were the rude people? Theyre not disimilar to yourself it seems. How would you react if you were greeted repeatedly by rude/snarky people on your multiuse trails by another user group? If theres no marked increase in incidents and no trail destruction with eebs why do you care what others want to do?
My hostility is based on people assuming shit that isnt going to happen , based on facts. I guess your feelings are hurt so that means im hostile. Tissue bro?

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[jono]

FFS. Aren't you Canadian? Has the BLM started enforcing these regulations north of the 49th now?

[grinch]

Facts is facts bud

More facts: 5000ft 2day on the eeb. Soo fun. Ride everrrrry day. Atleast an hour of trail work/day the last week too, on my rides, now that the collarbone semi functions.Good vibes all around. No alternate reality curmudgeons encountered today

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[jono]

I don't know about your facts one way or the other, I didn't even read your posts. I just graded em by weight and likelihood of relevance given no personal stake in the applicable legal system and moved on. Let us know if you need some new keys or anything, we're a generous lot.

[grinch]

Ahh politics. Right

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[nickwm21]

BLM land sounds like the perfect place to allow eBikes. People are already cooking meth out there anyway...


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

So much wrong. You are consistent though.

1) millenials(most current mtbers) may be aloof but they generally know how to get around the trails and judge speed so incidents are contained

2)moto riders are friendly to meet on the trails. Their speed will have little difference. There is a learning curve and in the end you have to conserve battery power

3)we all started as newbs. Way to be elitist bro. I challenge you to make it around our trails without a skid or 30

Of course its not about me but i thought i should supply a real life example, unlike yourself. In my "cool story" you could put any emtber i know in my place and they would act similar and also be in a legal place to ride but who were the rude people? Theyre not disimilar to yourself it seems. How would you react if you were greeted repeatedly by rude/snarky people on your multiuse trails by another user group? If theres no marked increase in incidents and no trail destruction with eebs why do you care what others want to do?
My hostility is based on people assuming shit that isnt going to happen , based on facts. I guess your feelings are hurt so that means im hostile. Tissue bro?

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You keep talking about facts, where are they?


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[Bunion 2020]

BLM land sounds like the perfect place to allow eBikes. People are already cooking meth out there anyway...


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ummmm. Most of the Moab trail system is BLM. I believe also Fruita and St George. Just sayin.

You keep talking about facts, where are they?


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Canadian Pseudo-factoids that do not really apply here in Murica.

[Name Redacted]

ummmm. Most of the Moab trail system is BLM. I believe also Fruita and St George. Just sayin.

Many of Moab's trails were created by motorized users. Also as I mentioned above, on the downhill, ebikes don't really matter, you really don't need to go any faster than gravity will take you. Just make EBikes ride the road at 18rd. Maybe just ban them from climbing single tracks or rolling trails, wouldn't that pretty much solve the problem in a lot of cases?