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  1. #1
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    BLM Proposed E-Bike Rule

    I haven't seen much about this but it's a pretty big change and the public comment period ends soon.

    https://www.blm.gov/press-release/bl...ke-regulations

    Basically this rule implements the SO from last August. That means it removes pedal-assisted e-bikes from off-highway vehicle classification and allows local land managers to expand access (through travel plans with additional public comment) of e-bikes up to the extent of traditional mountain bikes.

    NPS and BOR are doing similar rules but the BLM manages a lot more mountain bike trails.

    Public comment ends June 9th.
    It sucks to suck.

  2. #2
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    I dunno, seems pretty reasonable. It allows local control over access, which ultimately seems to make sense. And if I'm understanding correctly, the new rule doesn't automatically allow ebikes, it just changes the definitions / classifications. Local decisions would still need to be made to affirmatively allow ebike access.

  3. #3
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    Cons:
    -No enforcement, labeling or testing for bikes
    -allows throttle bikes but supposedly bans "using the throttle".
    -Ties mtb access to a motorized group. "Authorized officers should generally allow"
    We just lost 130-150 miles of trails in Montana in a Trump administration plan. Surely more to follow next week. When the pendulum swings, do you really want to see how much more access we lose (together <3)

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the reminder.

    BLM land does seem remote enough that it probably would not be an issue. But they increase user conflict which will create more anti bike zealots. Now rather than a 10 mile ride, they do a 30 mile ride...so pissed off that many more hikers. Biggest problem is every interaction is at high speed, now hikers and bikers going down trail need to worry about out of control uphill traffic moving at > 10 mph.

    I am impressed with how many advocacy wins they seem to be getting with what seems like zero effort. My theory is anti bike people are pushing it to get us all lumped as motorized and cut out of all trails.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 406 View Post
    Thanks for the reminder.

    BLM land does seem remote enough that it probably would not be an issue. But they increase user conflict which will create more anti bike zealots. Now rather than a 10 mile ride, they do a 30 mile ride...so pissed off that many more hikers. Biggest problem is every interaction is at high speed, now hikers and bikers going down trail need to worry about out of control uphill traffic moving at > 10 mph.

    I am impressed with how many advocacy wins they seem to be getting with what seems like zero effort. My theory is anti bike people are pushing it to get us all lumped as motorized and cut out of all trails.
    x2. The user conflict is certainly not going to get better. Bringing mopeds into non-motorized areas under the guise of a bicycle will not end well for the bicycle user group.
    fun hater.

  6. #6
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    So if I get a little assist on some uphills, but have it off all the other time, is that a bad thing?
    If you are ripping through on med-high power, I don’t see that as good on a lot of trails. Certain places, it may be fine.
    This would all require good judgement though.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiBall View Post
    So if I get a little assist on some uphills, but have it off all the other time, is that a bad thing?
    If you are ripping through on med-high power, I don’t see that as good on a lot of trails. Certain places, it may be fine.
    This would all require good judgement though.
    Totally agree on the certain places and the good judgement. Personally, I would like to see the thoughtful granting of access and not a blanket decision.

    I am not anti-eMTB, I am anti-eMTB in historically non-motorized areas where MTB access is already under fire.
    fun hater.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiBall View Post
    So if I get a little assist on some uphills, but have it off all the other time, is that a bad thing?
    No, it's not a bad thing. But it isn't a bicycle, either. Same as dirt bikes. I don't mind them on trails that are designated for motorized use. But it's nice to have trails with no motors, too.
    “I really lack the words to compliment myself today.” - Alberto Tomba

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 406 View Post
    I am impressed with how many advocacy wins they seem to be getting with what seems like zero effort. My theory is anti bike people are pushing it to get us all lumped as motorized and cut out of all trails.
    Bike industry is pushing hard for ebike access. Specialized, et al, wants ebike access in a bad way. And the industry already has lines of communication with land managers open through prior advocacy efforts.

  10. #10
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    You decide your trails but 2 things ive found to be myths. Class i emtbs arent ripping up trails. 1)Yes they go a bit faster, especially up a fireroad, but on the trail rocks , roots , corners and bumps dictate a speed faster than a mtb but not much more than a elite xc racer.
    2) there wont be a rash of collisions involving emtb's with the added few mph. People dont go out and smash into people. Thats just nonsense. Will there be "a" collision? Yes but occasionally we already had a rare collision pre emtb , here or there. Someone has a story of an incident occasionally but its just not that prevalent because people dont want to smash into other people. Ya crazy eh. Where i live we have a fairly extensive enduro moto area(for a small town) and the singletrack is great and similar to the bike trails although some are faster. Sure enough, no collisions even though one group going one direction and some going another wont hear or see each other. Amazing. If motos are fine an emtb going a fraction of that speed will be fine.
    Theyre myths that theyll be a rash of incidents. If there is one incident it gets blown waaay out of proportion. Word spreads that someone almost died or couldve died maybe , possibly, well it was damn close. "That never happened before ebikes!!" They will say after their bs story
    Case in point and a recent experience . I went to Salmon Arm to ride their trail system that is known as their xc trail system as i emtb is allowed. I had biked through one time before on a mtb traverse so i wanted to explore it more. Its kind of mellow but fun trails. I researched the trails on trail forks to see how conditions were and try and piece together some loops. I figured they were all 2 way trails like the ones i had been on previously. No mention on trailforks as for which direction to go on any trail. All trails have a trail sign at both ends . It wasnt very busy. First group i met were 2 girls . I was climbing up they were coming down. I pulled over as i usually do , in plenty of time. 1st cow tells me rudely, after she spots my eeb, i should move over more. Im off the side of the trail but whatever, the cow is flexing for her hot friend , that is trailing her, to have an extra super clear path. Didnt expect that directive from anyone on a 2 way trail. After all, im uphill traffic, friendly and curteous and still i pulled over.
    Then up to the higher new to me trails. Again i go past the trail sign and it starts to climb and comes to a tech climb section 40ft long. Didnt make it so i hike above and carry on. The rest of the trail is mellow. Then a couple more peoole. I say hi as im off the side to let them pass in plenty of time because i heard them coming. They see the eeb and the lead coug tells me its a one way trail and im going the wrong way. No hi , they didnt stop. Just rude. In my xc race days i would have done that trail both ways no problem and im sure there are locals that do. All the trails can be ridden both ways. It was not more tech than my local 2 way xc trails. Then i see an online bike thread with people blowing up some incident at these trails. They stoke the fire theorizing what happened for days. I suspect the "incident" was my "non incident". Me being the friendly one in the "incidents" that was kind of lost/exploring and off the side of the trail to let people pass. But of course i had an eeb so i was out for total destruction and looking to clothesline any downhill traffic/Esarc
    I'd wager to bet 75-85% of the stories on an any so called incident is filled with 99% bullshit.
    I was social distancing. I said hi. Im not in your way. Im doing no harm to anyone. Take a fkn powder
    sooo what were we talking about?


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    Last edited by grinch; 06-06-2020 at 11:22 AM.

  11. #11
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    If you’re going to be in business, you better be in politics. Looks like the bike industry is running out human powered ideas to sell.

    I’m not against local managers making access calls as long as it doesn’t diminish access. Especially on BLM land.

  12. #12
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    @Grinch.

    Paragraphs.... Your rant is pretty well unreadable.
    Ooof!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    You decide your trails but 2 things ive found to be myths. Class i emtbs arent ripping up trails. 1)Yes they go a bit faster, especially up a fireroad, but on the trail rocks , roots , corners and bumps dictate a speed faster than a mtb but not much more than a elite xc racer.
    2) there wont be a rash of collisions with the added few mph. People dont go out and smash into people. Thats just nonsense. Will there be "a" collision? Yes but occasionally we already have collisions here or there. Someone has a story but its just not that prevalent because people dont want to smash into other people. Ya crazy eh. With have a fairly extensive enduro moto area(for a small town) and the singletrack is great and similar to the bike trails although some are faster. Sure enough, no collisions even though one group going one direction and some going anither wont hear each other.
    Theyre myths that theyll be a rash of incidents. If there is one it gets blown waaay out of proportion. Word spreads that someone almost died or couldve died maybe possibly, well it was damn close. "That never happened before ebikes!!"
    Case in point and recent and only because i feel like i have experienced enough to have an idea how things are going to happen. I went to salmon arm to ride their trail system that generally has their xc trails and i heard emtb is allowed. I had passed through one time before on a mtb traverse so i wanted to explore it more. Its kind of mellow but fun trails. I researched them on trail forks to see how conditions were and try and piece together some loops. I figured they were all 2 way trails like the ones i had been on previously. No mention on trailforks as for directional. All trails had a trail sign at both ends so off i went. Not very busy. First group i met were 2 girls as i was climbing up they were coming down. I pulled over as i usually do ,emtb or mtb, 1st cow(i met her somewhere before , recognized the 'tude after)tells me , after she spots the eeb, i should move over more. Ok whatever, the cow is flexing for her hot friend to have a super clear path. Didnt expect the directive besides im uphill traffic, friendly and curteous. I say fuck you to myself and carry on. Then up to the higher new trails. Again go past the trail sign and it starts to climb and comes to a tech climb section 40ft long. Didnt make it so i hike above and carry on. The rest of the trail is mellow. Then a couple more peoole. I say hi as im off the side to let them pass. They see the eeb and the lead coug tells me its a one way trail and im going the wrong way. No hi , no stop just rude. In my xc race days i would have done that trail both ways no problem and im sure there are locals that do. All the trails can be ridden both ways. Nothing more tech than our 2 way trails. Then i see online people blowing up some incident at these trails. They stoke the fire for days. I suspect the incident was me. The friendly one in the incidents that was kind of lost/exploring and off the side of the trail to let people pass. But of course i had an eeb so i was out for total destruction and looking to clothesline any downhill traffic/s
    I bet 75-85% of any story on an incident is 99% bullshit. Im social distancing. I said hi. Im not in your way. Im doing no harm to anyone. Take a fkn powde sooo what were we talking about?


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    Cool story bro.


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  14. #14
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    I ride motos and bicycles, and agree with most of you that each has its place. The main beef for me is when people ignore non-motorized designations with their motor vehicles. I think that undermines everything we've been working for for access for wheels in general.

    For gravel biking I think mopeds are great, but I really think there should be non-motorized trails, just like I think there should be foot only trails. Separating user groups, IMO, is the only way to completely avoid conflict. (Except for horses--we should ban them altogether, of course.)Name:  15899336232780.jpeg
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    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Bike industry is pushing hard for ebike access. Specialized, et al, wants ebike access in a bad way. And the industry already has lines of communication with land managers open through prior advocacy efforts.
    I'm not anti e-bike. But we all know the industry has realize they can't sell as many new bikes because they've done all the wheel size, tire size, and hub spacing voodoo that they can market... and the market is saturated. So they gotta sell something. ebikes have great margins but won't sell unless you can use them.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I'm not anti e-bike. But we all know the industry has realize they can't sell as many new bikes because they've done all the wheel size, tire size, and hub spacing voodoo that they can market... and the market is saturated. So they gotta sell something. ebikes have great margins but won't sell unless you can use them.
    Dude. 36" wheels. Gonna be so hot in 3 years.

  17. #17
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	24427922-a-typical-penny-farthing-bicycle-over-a-white-background.jpg 
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ID:	330770 makes a BIG comeback
    Ooof!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I'm not anti e-bike. But we all know the industry has realize they can't sell as many new bikes because they've done all the wheel size, tire size, and hub spacing voodoo that they can market... and the market is saturated. So they gotta sell something. ebikes have great margins but won't sell unless you can use them.
    To me it's not so much about market saturation as it is about opening up a new market. They're not going to make the bulk of the $$ from people who already ride non-motorized bikes. What they want it to tap into the group of petrotainers who have never considered biking cause it's hard. If you give them a motor though they'll be all over it.

    Edit: in the past 4 rides I've been on I saw a total of 10 ebikes poaching clearly labeled trails. The riders have been overly polite and quick to get off the trail every time. All of them were older guys who probably wouldn't have been riding those trails without the motor. My first reaction is always a bit of annoyance then I think about it for a sec and can't get myself to care.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    To me it's not so much about market saturation as it is about opening up a new market. They're not going to make the bulk of the $$ from people who already ride non-motorized bikes. What they want it to tap into the group of petrotainers who have never considered biking cause it's hard. If you give them a motor though they'll be all over it.

    Edit: in the past 4 rides I've been on I saw a total of 10 ebikes poaching clearly labeled trails. The riders have been overly polite and quick to get off the trail every time. All of them were older guys who probably wouldn't have been riding those trails without the motor. My first reaction is always a bit of annoyance then I think about it for a sec and can't get myself to care.
    You should care. Allow access for ebikes ridden by the obese and infirm and soon they’ll be clamoring to widen and grade your favorite trails for the Rascal crowd. Slippery slope dontcha know. Mostly serious here. E bike riders are already riding on the local paved multi use trail at too high of speed.


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    @Grinch.

    Paragraphs.... Your rant is pretty well unreadable.
    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Cool story bro.


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    Ya ya i was/am pissed. I edited it, i think....
    I go out in the mountains to get away from people. I just want to say hi and carry on. I was legal in every way and went above and beyond.
    I will say, ive found the opinions of someone that hasnt put a good 3 or 4 days in on one doesnt know what theyre talking about. In most cases those people are making up possibilities that arent going to happen. In a lot of cases they still think emtb's do all the work and/or are all throttle mega speed.
    I rarely use boost, except on a steep tech or loose section, which most of the time is the loose part of a trail that goes up onto a road. Your battery wont last long in boost.
    I mostly stay at an upper end endurance pace with an occasional interval when its steep. Im not going very fast to conserve battery.
    For reference, i used one complete charge the other day using an even split between eco and trail modes and no boost mode. I did 50km and just under 7000ft of climbing. Climbing was on a logging road and down dh trails with a few km's to/fro the trail system on asphalt. I did a little more than twice as much as id do on my enduro bike but it took me an hour and a bit longer. So i got more of a workout than i normally would because its fun.
    Its nice being able to stay at endurance pace with the occasiinal interval. Logging road climb gets steep at the top and it sucks grunting to turn over a granny gear at that point. Tech climbs are fun. Logging roads not so much. Endurance pace allows me to ride almost every day.
    Obviously i pull away from acoustic bikes on fireroads but im conserving battery so not flying by anyone. On single track its the same. On singletrack its just cleaning the ups without stopping at endurance pace to get to the downs. No conflict. No stress

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  21. #21
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    BLM Proposed E-Bike Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Ya ya i was/am pissed. I edited it, i think....
    I go out in the mountains to get away from people. I just want to say hi and carry on. I was legal in every way and went above and beyond.
    I will say, ive found the opinions of someone that hasnt put a good 3 or 4 days in on one doesnt know what theyre talking about. In most cases those people are making up possibilities that arent going to happen. In a lot of cases they still think emtb's do all the work and/or are all throttle mega speed.
    I rarely use boost, except on a steep tech or loose section, which most of the time is the loose part of a trail that goes up onto a road. Your battery wont last long in boost.
    I mostly stay at an upper end endurance pace with an occasional interval when its steep. Im not going very fast to conserve battery.
    For reference, i used one complete charge the other day using an even split between eco and trail modes and no boost mode. I did 50km and just under 7000ft of climbing. Climbing was on a logging road and down dh trails with a few km's to/fro the trail system on asphalt. I did a little more than twice as much as id do on my enduro bike but it took me an hour and a bit longer. So i got more of a workout than i normally would because its fun.
    Its nice being able to stay at endurance pace with the occasiinal interval. Logging road climb gets steep at the top and it sucks grunting to turn over a granny gear at that point. Tech climbs are fun. Logging roads not so much. Endurance pace allows me to ride almost every day.
    Obviously i pull away from acoustic bikes on fireroads but im conserving battery so not flying by anyone. On single track its the same. On singletrack its just cleaning the ups without stopping at endurance pace to get to the downs. No conflict. No stress

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    Again, cool story. I don’t think people are worried about riding in the manner you describe, they’re worried about access and opening up historically non motorized trails to motorized use. It’s a slippery slope. No matter how you rationalize to yourself, you are riding a motorized bike. It’s an electric moped.


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  22. #22
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    Full suspension, fat tire carbon long travel ebikes. Are these old fucks even trying?

    I'll say it: I'm anti ebike. GTFO of non-motorized with your moped. Begone!
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  23. #23
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    If they have no effect on what you do on a bike why do you care? Further more why do you have to make up complete shit? You're all just flexing. Funny thing is most of you cant even flex. Its funny
    Clueless gone b clueless. Carry on

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  24. #24
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    Is it bad that I want an ebike to get park laps when the lifts aren't running?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  25. #25
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    Not nearly as much as attaching Lift assist and biking in parks to Biking in general. At least ski area trails are a place where E-bikes really do belong.

    But that is just my flexing opinion man.
    Ooof!

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