Statue of Robert E. Lee and other confederate symbols

[ex-powderbroker]

the noose isn’t 1% of the statues or flags. the hooded driver quit, they rolled out the driver, and now it’s time to push over some statues of robert e lee.

objections?

[XXX-er]

I pointed out a confed on a house in redneck land to a group of American skier I was expediting and he said does that guy have any idea what that flag means ?

I gotta admit I didnt either so I googled eh

[Danno]

Wait your theory is a racist planted the noose in October and waited 8 months for the lone African American driver to be assigned the garage, or the FBI lied with the surveillance or NASCAR lies the garage was not randomly assigned.
What do you believe happened?


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Seriously, your reading comprehension is flawed, or you are knee jerk responding to things without thinking first. I have already posted in this very thread that the results of the investigation were that the noose was NOT directed at Wallace. I have posted that the investigation showed that the noose has been there since October, nobody knows why or even exactly when it was put up there, and that the garages are randomly assigned and so neither the garage assignment nor the noose could have been intentionally directed at Wallace. And I have nowhere said or even hinted that the results of that investigation were incorrect. Why would I?

Nevertheless, a noose was put up in October, for unknown reasons, and remained there for 8 months. Why was it put up there in the first place? Why did nobody see it since then? Or did they see it and think nothing of it? Did they just see a garage rope pull, did they just see a noose but not think it was problematic? I find it unlikely that any POC would see that and just think it was an innocent old rope pull.

I don't know what happened or why. But regardless of whether someone put it up for a halloween prank as you assert, it's a noose, an item with a VERY STRONG association to vile things (in the south especially, but everywhere). So it doesn't strike me as just an innocent prank, and the fact it stayed there for months doesn't strike me as innocent. But, since you seem to have trouble at this and feel the need to constantly declare yourself non-racist, saying that it is not innocent (that it was put up there and that it stayed there) is not the same thing as saying that the person put it there, or that people let it stay there, because their intent was to intimidate black people. Perhaps it was a halloween prank, and perhaps subsequent people just saw a garage door pull. Those people may not have been overtly racist in seeing it that way, but if so, it's because they were totally blind to the strong symbolism that a noose represents to POC. EDIT: to finish the point, and being blind to what the noose represents or how it will effect others who see it is itself a form of racism.

So I have no idea what happened and may never know. But it's still pretty darned problematic.

[The AD]

Perhaps it was put up in October for Halloween as a scary prank and had an empty race suit and helmet attached to scare people?
Is that possible?
Wrong guy, wrong garage for sure.
I’ve hated seeing the confederate flag my whole life.
Yet merely seeing a hangman noose put up at Halloween time makes me a presume racist?
It’s entirely possible it was put up at Halloween and then the garage has sat empty over the winter.
Bad optics either way.

It's possible, but it seems like a strained scenario to me. Are effigies of people hanging something that's really done for Halloween? Can't say I've seen it.

Yes, of course there's a possibility that there was nothing racist about that noose. There's also a possibility that it was racist, but not specifically targeted at Bubba Wallace.

[ncskier]

I pointed out a confed on a house in redneck land to a group of American skier I was expediting and he said does that guy have any idea what that flag means ?

I gotta admit I didnt either so I googled eh

It's simple right. It's the wrong side of history and a loosing army. Then taken up by turn of the century racists. It's actually not that complicated.
Like bikers flying a nazi flag or something i guess.

[ex-powderbroker]

I pointed out a confed on a house in redneck land to a group of American skier I was expediting and he said does that guy have any idea what that flag means ?

I gotta admit I didnt either so I googled eh

i’ve caught them in alberta and mosquitoland, quebec. the usa can really export some ‘culture’. no idea if those dumbfucks know what it means either. when i see the confederate flag i don’t usually take it as an invitation to chat. one of them had a sticker on his car about his AR. bonus points.

[ncskier]

Seriously, your reading comprehension is flawed, or you are knee jerk responding to things without thinking first. I have already posted in this very thread that the results of the investigation were that the noose was NOT directed at Wallace. I have posted that the investigation showed that the noose has been there since October, nobody knows why or even exactly when it was put up there, and that the garages are randomly assigned and so neither the garage assignment nor the noose could have been intentionally directed at Wallace. And I have nowhere said or even hinted that the results of that investigation were incorrect. Why would I?

Nevertheless, a noose was put up in October, for unknown reasons, and remained there for 8 months. Why was it put up there in the first place? Why did nobody see it since then? Or did they see it and think nothing of it? Did they just see a garage rope pull, did they just see a noose but not think it was problematic? I find it unlikely that any POC would see that and just think it was an innocent old rope pull.

I don't know what happened or why. But regardless of whether someone put it up for a halloween prank as you assert, it's a noose, an item with a VERY STRONG association to vile things (in the south especially, but everywhere). So it doesn't strike me as just an innocent prank, and the fact it stayed there for months doesn't strike me as innocent. But, since you seem to have trouble at this and feel the need to constantly declare yourself non-racist, saying that it is not innocent (that it was put up there and that it stayed there) is not the same thing as saying that the person put it there, or that people let it stay there, because their intent was to intimidate black people. Perhaps it was a halloween prank, and perhaps subsequent people just saw a garage door pull. Those people may not have been overtly racist in seeing it that way, but if so, it's because they were totally blind to the strong symbolism that a noose represents to POC.

So I have no idea what happened and may never know. But it's still pretty darned problematic.

You do know that garage track garages probably remained empty almost the entire time. That door could have been sealed on 10/13 and not reopened for the entirety of the 8 months. Talladega is a track and not a "home" field for a race team. They visit and pack up and leave. Like a hotel room. So its entirely possible some immature visiting pit mechanic tied it and left it 8 months ago in October.
Be sure to warn all your neighbors to longer use the hangmans noose and scarecrow decorations in your neighborhoods this coming October.
I just find it hard to believe a singular knot in a random garage would be the call to arms of Nascar when those fucks loved all the confederate non-inclusive shit for decades.

[ncskier]

It's possible, but it seems like a strained scenario to me. Are effigies of people hanging something that's really done for Halloween? Can't say I've seen it.

Yes, of course there's a possibility that there was nothing racist about that noose. There's also a possibility that it was racist, but not specifically targeted at Bubba Wallace.

In all seriousness, if you have never been to a NASCAR race, the mere idea of randomly tying a noose in the pit in the hope of an african american walking by is almost slim to non. Not saying it's right, but you'd have a better shot trying to intimidate people of color at a ski race in Austria

And yes there are a million and one hanging zombie and scarecrow decorations available for purchase. I presume they wouldnt make them if people wouldnt buy them. Just seems odd October is the month. A racist is a racist, why not any of the other 40 races beforehand if he decided to make the noose

[Danno]

You do know that garage track garages probably remained empty almost the entire time. That door could have been sealed on 10/13 and not reopened for the entirety of the 8 months. Talladega is a track and not a "home" field for a race team. They visit and pack up and leave. Like a hotel room. So its entirely possible some immature visiting pit mechanic tied it and left it 8 months ago in October.

I assumed that the track and garages got used more than once every 8 months. If that is incorrect, that does change it.

I just find it hard to believe a singular knot in a random garage would be the call to arms of Nascar when those fucks loved all the confederate non-inclusive shit for decades.

It wasn't the noose. NASCAR already had announced elimination of the confederate flag, this happened shortly after that. The "singular knot in a random garage" was far from "the call to arms of Nascar", FFS. Maybe you haven't been paying attention to what's been going on in the country the last few weeks?

[The AD]

In all seriousness, if you have never been to a NASCAR race, the mere idea of randomly tying a noose in the pit in the hope of an african american walking by is almost slim to non.

But what if that wasn't the goal? Maybe some racist just hung it up thinking it was in more or less a "safe" area. They probably aren't out driving around flying Confederate flags in predominantly black neighborhoods, either, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't put one up inside their own house.

[ncskier]

I assumed that the track and garages got used more than once every 8 months. If that is incorrect, that does change it.



It wasn't the noose. NASCAR already had announced elimination of the confederate flag, this happened shortly after that. The "singular knot in a random garage" was far from "the call to arms of Nascar", FFS. Maybe you haven't been paying attention to what's been going on in the country the last few weeks?

Those garage are like visiting locker rooms. They barely get used especially the big boy full nascar ones. So yes it is almost 95% probable especially with Covid delaying testing and any racing, that it was sealed in October and never used again until the race. I drive past Darlington and for 50 weeks a year it sits unused except for a handful of times for amateurs etc. But almost never getting access to the prime garages. It's not like football or baseball. The teams roll in, even amateurs or lower series racers like trucks and other d league types with fully kitted out RV's and trailers.

[XXX-er]

i seen the con flag on the hood of a lifted chevy PU in a field yesturday, up here it has everything to do with "the dukes of hazard "

down in Nelson mid 70's there was a bunch of dukes ( doukhobors ) who would drive around the mountains dodging cops in 68 dodge chargers, since the cars were all identical unless the po-lice caught the guy it could have been anybody


we even got a local nedneck with the conflag tatoo, when asked if he realized what it stood for he said " but thats not what i meant ! "



If the noose appeared in buddies garage over night that is one thing but if some bored crew member tied a noose in a piece of rope last year ... then its just a knot

[k2skier112]

Yep. The fact that it had been there since October and not reported seems fairly fishy, or at least a measure of how white folks don't see something like that as problematic.



1,684 garage stalls. All have a rope pull down. One had a noose. Seems fairly intentional here, not just innocent rope tying.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nasc...m1ugxiat5k4wzu

Facts of the Bubba Wallace noose case show it wasn't a hoax, and the NASCAR driver is not to blame

And they brought in Alabama FBI agents, all white probably too

Not many Robert E Lee statues in Portland. But the racist bullshit that Oregon did in the 1800's is fucking disgusting. Leaving it on the books until 2002 is horrendous. I'm not one of the 30% of the racists in Oregon who voted against removing the racist language in the constitution in 2002.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/ore...xclusion-laws/

Most of the USA is still systemically racist, but the South keeps the visuals of the Confederacy around like they're proud of being racists and traitors

[k2skier112]

In all seriousness, if you have never been to a NASCAR race, the mere idea of randomly tying a noose in the pit in the hope of an african american walking by is almost slim to non. Not saying it's right, but you'd have a better shot trying to intimidate people of color at a ski race in Austria

And yes there are a million and one hanging zombie and scarecrow decorations available for purchase. I presume they wouldnt make them if people wouldnt buy them. Just seems odd October is the month. A racist is a racist, why not any of the other 40 races beforehand if he decided to make the noose

How many NASCAR races have you been too?
In what states?

I've done;
FL, Daytona
PA, Pocono
NV, Las Vegas
CA, Sonoma

Much, much different crowds on the West vs East coast

[ncskier]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nasc...m1ugxiat5k4wzu

Facts of the Bubba Wallace noose case show it wasn't a hoax, and the NASCAR driver is not to blame

And they brought in Alabama FBI agents, all white probably too

Not many Robert E Lee statues in Portland. But the racist bullshit that Oregon did in the 1800's is fucking disgusting. Leaving it on the books until 2002 is horrendous. I'm not one of the 30% of the racists in Oregon who voted against removing the racist language in the constitution in 2002.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/ore...xclusion-laws/

Most of the USA is still systemically racist, but the South keeps the visuals of the Confederacy around like they're proud of being racists and traitors

You are correct, draping yourself in a confederate flag and supporting loosing statues based on supposed heritage is bad optics and gains many eyeballs. Deservedly so.
Your assumption that Alabama with a nearly 30% black population would send 15 white FBI investigators is not an Alabama thing. The FBI is overwhelmingly white regardless of which states the agents home office is.
So again you are assuming just because they are from Alabama the investigation is somehow tainted. But really a tainted investigation is just as likely with the Boston office or Portland office, correct?


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[ncskier]

How many NASCAR races have you been too?
In what states?

I've done;
FL, Daytona
PA, Pocono
NV, Las Vegas
CA, Sonoma

Much, much different crowds on the West vs East coast

Too many to count and yes I would agree. Which is why it was weird to me it took until a month ago for NASCAR to put a stop to its confederate loving ways as it moved west.


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[TNKen]

NASCAR is desperate to rekindle a fan base. The majority of the beer can muffler crowd has barely heard of NASCAR.

I haven't been to many different tracks, but I have been to Bristol many times. Been fortunate enough to hang out with Bobby Allison many times and heard many stories. Today's NASCAR isn't anything like its bare-bones beginnings.

[ncskier]

NASCAR is desperate to rekindle a fan base. The majority of the beer can muffler crowd has barely heard of NASCAR.

I haven't been to many different tracks, but I have been to Bristol many times. Been fortunate enough to hang out with Bobby Allison many times and heard many stories. Today's NASCAR isn't anything like its bare-bones beginnings.

Well to be honest, they have a mixed message. It doesnt make it right, but their demo aged out and when they expanded outside of the darlignton and rockinghams and choose las vegas and california, they still clung to the confederate fan base. What asian american or black kid from california wants to follow a driver or sport where the confederate flag was flown and had a "redneck"fan base. They tried to appease everyone and in the end appeased and attracted no one.

[dunfree]

Well to be honest, they have a mixed message. It doesnt make it right, but their demo aged out and when they expanded outside of the darlignton and rockinghams and choose las vegas and california, they still clung to the confederate fan base. What asian american or black kid from california wants to follow a driver or sport where the confederate flag was flown and had a "redneck"fan base. They tried to appease everyone and in the end appeased and attracted no one.

southern redneck culture took over as the de facto white working class culture across the nation and being white & working class don’t leave much $ for sports fandom in 2020. It was this ” retro” appeal (even on a technical level down to the rear wheel drive carbureted v8 cars) that fueled huge growth in the 90s/00s but left them without a way out in the 10s. Shorter term growth vs. longer term strategy in an overall declining market for motor sports.

[k2skier112]

Cars, boats, planes, bikes, go-karts...ALL Motorsports is in decline for many reasons. Not just NASCAR, F1, Indy car, every Motorsport is hurting for participants and fans

[TNKen]

Back when I was younger, the shotgun to have was a Browning Auto 5. It was a work of art from John Browning. You could pick up a nice one for $350-$450. As the population that wanted this gun aged into a population that could afford this gun, the prices jumped to about $900-$1,100. As those that wanted this gun have left this earth, the new generation either doesn't hunt or wants the latest, greatest shotgun. The prices have now fallen back into the $500 range or less. Same thing for early and mid-year Vetts.

NASCAR has suffered the same fate, and done little to attract a new fan base. My kids go to the Bristol races, not for the racing because they have no clue who is in the car, but it is a hell of a party and it is less than 10 minutes from my house. Would they drive more than 30 minutes to a race, never. As they say, NASCAR died with Dale.

[LHutz Esq]

Not asking this to be dick at all - but just as a curious onlooker.

Why is the US one country again?

The divide between strong blue and strong red states seems to be a wider chasm than the French/English thing we have going on up here.

Is this all media hype or would the states be better off in an EU type arrangement.

[AK47bp]

Know your knots. That's a Hangman's Noose knot Not a noose knot nor is it a Uni knot.

Knot funny.


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[Danno]

Those garage are like visiting locker rooms. They barely get used especially the big boy full nascar ones. So yes it is almost 95% probable especially with Covid delaying testing and any racing, that it was sealed in October and never used again until the race. I drive past Darlington and for 50 weeks a year it sits unused except for a handful of times for amateurs etc. But almost never getting access to the prime garages. It's not like football or baseball. The teams roll in, even amateurs or lower series racers like trucks and other d league types with fully kitted out RV's and trailers.

good to know. if that's the case, it certainly makes it less suspicious that it was not reported until now.

[The SnowShow]

Just heard Breckenridge is considering changing its name because it was named for VP John Breckinridge, who fought for the confederacy. The town already changed its name in response but apparently, this is the time we live in.