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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch6364 View Post
    Did either of you even read the first sentence of my post? I literally said "I am all for removing these statues." Apparently you did not read first....just saw what you wanted and posted. That is how America gets into these situations, people don't think things all the way through.

    K2, have you seen the state of our public education system as it relates to history and what is taught? I am not saying we should keep the status up to "preserve history."
    Yes. But you seem to gloss over the last half of your sentence. No history will be lost. But we sure are repeating it anyway, over and over. Even with statues and books...

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    There's a difference between whitewashing history and removing symbols. Kinnickinick's claims seem to justify double think and ignorance of history a lot more than does the removal of some symbols. Both history and symbology are nuanced, but a symbol can be built our destroyed without denying that nuance or claiming that everyone sees it the same way. Certainly without rewriting history to a more binary narrative in the process.
    those statutes were built to repress black freedom. it's easy to say that in hind site. when they were being installed blacks were second class citizens and being kept down with bullshit stereotypes and the lost cause was glorified. all southern civil war general statutes should come down and go into museums

  3. #153
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    (names changed to protect the innocent) my younest son's Middle name is Jones, "Beth Jones" has shown up a good bit in our family the last 150 years or so. My great great grandfather was shot and captured at antitam, seved 3 years at Johnson Island. beth jones was a nurse there that looked after him. As soon as he could he named a daughter after her. We've been doing so in bits and pieces ever since.
    "Can't you see..."

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Knowing, understanding, and remembering/memorializing family is one thing. I don't think I'd want to have an advertisement on my car extolling the fact that my ancestor was on the wrong side of history, a traitor.

    Not a whole lot of Germans nor Japanese like to advertise their family history in WW2.

    I've been reading more about this confederate statue topic. Memorials to those who died in battle and battlefield memorials are fine. Statues to traitorous southern leaders in cities and parks are stupid, inflammatory, and should move to museums or at least should have a plaque explaining the nature of their treachery and the brutal system they tried to preserve by killing Americans. I'm sure there are a few exceptions that redeemed themselves, but mostly not. That statues of Jeff Davis exist in southern cities is a festering wound inflamed with the racist aristocratic oppression that secession was rooted in.

    "I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.” -R. E. Lee, pardoned traitor, 1869, was opposed to extensive battlefield memorials.
    So let's talk about "traitors." How do you describe the "protestors" and current civil disrest in this country aimed at dismanteling our national, state and local governments? Are they not also "traitors?" Weren't also the revolutionaries who fought against the Queen's government "traitors?"

    Last time I checked, I had a Hale relative way back there hanged as traitor. Dammit, that makes two traitors in my lineage.
    In order to properly convert this thread to a polyasshat thread to more fully enrage the liberal left frequenting here...... (insert latest democratic blunder of your choice).

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNKen View Post
    So let's talk about "traitors." How do you describe the "protestors" and current civil disrest in this country aimed at dismanteling our national, state and local governments? Are they not also "traitors?" Weren't also the revolutionaries who fought against the Queen's government "traitors?"
    Ah yes, conflating (mostly) peaceful protesters advocating for societal change with the CSA.

    You're telling on yourself in an ugly way right now, broseph.

  6. #156
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    I know a dude who grew up a Jets fan, and switched to a Patriots fan when he moved to CT. That's fucked up.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  7. #157
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    I know some Packers fans. That's even more fucked up.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNKen View Post
    So let's talk about "traitors."
    No need for the scare quotes Lee and Davis were either traitors who violated their oath or enemies of America who renounced their citizenship to join a mythical nation of slavery.

    It's as if an Army officer renounced his or her oath to defend the United States then took up arms against America by joining ISIS.

    If the South wants to honor Southern-born officers then a statue for George Henry Thomas fits the bill. All that guy did was win.

  9. #159
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    I don't have a problem with peaceful protests, i.e. the exercise of the first amendment. Where do the rest of the protesters fit, the building burners, looters, police shooters, etc? Other than as criminals, please define.
    In order to properly convert this thread to a polyasshat thread to more fully enrage the liberal left frequenting here...... (insert latest democratic blunder of your choice).

  10. #160
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    i'm willing to give tnken a little credit on the quotes, referring to language usage and not implying intent or casting aspersions
    tho it's a razor's edge that could easily fall into that

    there has been criminal activity that isn't unpatriotic, ie reaction to injustice
    and there's been some that is decidedly motivated by chaos or evil, just out to cause civil unrest

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNKen View Post
    I don't have a problem with peaceful protests, i.e. the exercise of the first amendment. Where do the rest of the protesters fit, the building burners, looters, police shooters, etc? Other than as criminals, please define.
    Police shooters? WTF you talking about.

    Also, the protestors in Minneapolis burnt down a precinct building and the City responded by...agreeing to disband the entire police force. So guess what? It fuckin' worked.

  12. #162
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    Statue of Robert E. Lee and other confederate symbols

    There is a truth to these monuments that isn’t open for debate nor interpretation. 30 minutes of research on almost any of them will show you who spearheaded and funded the projects and the land acquisition. You’ll see the articles and PR behind it. The people that spoke at its dedication and the words they used, and the people that showed up to show their support. The only sensible conclusion is that these are symbols of fear and hate and racism.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNKen View Post
    I don't have a problem with peaceful protests, i.e. the exercise of the first amendment. Where do the rest of the protesters fit, the building burners, looters, police shooters, etc? Other than as criminals, please define.
    Yeah, fuck looters. I'm fine with that. People exercising their first amendment right to protest is quite American. Also, they're calling for reform of institutions that clearly are not performing their duties properly. Again, very American.
    Raising arms against America as an institution and trying to supplant the laws and leadership is quite another thing altogether.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNKen View Post
    So let's talk about "traitors." How do you describe the "protestors" and current civil disrest in this country aimed at dismanteling our national, state and local governments? Are they not also "traitors?" Weren't also the revolutionaries who fought against the Queen's government "traitors?"

    Last time I checked, I had a Hale relative way back there hanged as traitor. Dammit, that makes two traitors in my lineage.
    Wow

    Protesting systemic racism is traitorous?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNKen View Post
    I don't have a problem with peaceful protests, i.e. the exercise of the first amendment. Where do the rest of the protesters fit, the building burners, looters, police shooters, etc? Other than as criminals, please define.
    for the group that is (legitimately) angry enough to break the law, you'd be hard pressed to have anyone deny they are breaking the law...even them

    but that is exactly how rough it is, that their only option for raising issues of injustice is destruction of property or fighting with police or whatever

    injustice continues for a select group of americans despite repeated attempts to raise the issue under the legal bounds of current law


    consider what you are suggesting: you don't have a problem with the way things are & anyone bringing energetic attention to it is out of line

    don't be offended by the action -- listen & understand the scope & scale of what the issue is

    it is pretty earth shaking

    i don't feel compelled to tell my kid how to act submissive and respectful because he will inevitably will be randomly stopped by race-profiling police. do you?

  16. #166
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    Lots of things to digest in this thread today. I will mull them over this evening while sipping some Makers over ice with a twist of fresh ginger. I will then offer up my thoughts in the am.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    Lots of things to digest in this thread today. I will mull them over this evening while sipping some Makers over ice with a twist of fresh ginger. I will then offer up my thoughts in the am.
    I too am thinking it’s a Woodford kind of night. Ruminate over the goings on in the Padded Room this week and reconvene in the morning?
    I still call it The Jake.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Ah yes, conflating (mostly) peaceful protesters advocating for societal change with the CSA.

    You're telling on yourself in an ugly way right now, broseph.
    TNKen has been telling on himself in this regard for years, nothing new here.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    I too am thinking it’s a Woodford kind of night. Ruminate over the goings on in the Padded Room this week and reconvene in the morning?
    Nice. Sounds good.
    I'm pretty sure I'm out of Woodford.
    Once temp starts getting in the upper 80's around here with a touch of humidity, I'm partial to bourbon over ice.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNKen View Post
    I don't have a problem with peaceful protests, i.e. the exercise of the first amendment. Where do the rest of the protesters fit, the building burners, looters, police shooters, etc? Other than as criminals, please define.
    Yep, there are some building burners, looters and police shooters among the protesters. Criminals, I'll grant you that, although the number of those has greatly diminished as the protesters have policed them themselves. But even at the worst the percentage of criminals among the protesters was considerably less than the percentage of criminals among, oh say the United States Congress or the Forbes 100 richest Americans, and dramatically less than the percentage of criminals among the police.

    As far as the protesters wanting to dismantle local, state and federal governments--I suppose there might be a handful of anarchists among them advocating that but if so I must of missed it. But I'm sure that if there's even one, they'll be featured by Fox News.

    Understand that the aim of the protesters is not to exercise their 1st Amendment rights and then go away. It's to effect meaningful change in all the institutions of our society that systematize racism, and to abolish those that will not change. Free speech without change is just hot air.

  21. #171
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    It could have been worse

    what if they came out

    as snowboarders ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    There is a truth to these monuments that isn’t open for debate nor interpretation. 30 minutes of research on almost any of them will show you who spearheaded and funded the projects and the land acquisition. You’ll see the articles and PR behind it. The people that spoke at its dedication and the words they used, and the people that showed up to show their support. The only sensible conclusion is that these are symbols of fear and hate and racism.
    Yes.

  23. #173
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    There are protesters, rioters, and looters. You may be rioting because you protest how shit is, but I define these people as rioters so you don't fuck up the good work the protesters are doing.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    It could have been worse

    what if they came out

    as snowboarders ?
    Then forget the National Guard. They'd need to step it up and bring in Alta ski patrol.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    I know a dude who grew up a Jets fan, and switched to a Patriots fan when he moved to CT. That's fucked up.
    no need to be loyal to long island. living there is punishment enough

    i have rooted for the bruins and the habs... it's fucked man

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